Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

aikido articles


dojo search
image gallery
links directory

book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews


rss feeds

Follow us on

Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Open Discussions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Thread Tools
Old 01-15-2007, 02:55 PM   #26
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 225
Re: Respect

Mark Freeman wrote:
That's the nuttiest idea I have ever heard!

Sorry Neil, couldn't resist it


Arrg. I knew it was only a question of time, for that other shoe to drop.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2007, 08:56 AM   #27
jennifer paige smith
jennifer paige smith's Avatar
Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
Re: Respect

In reading and posting on this web I have come to the solid realization that 'tone', what my mother and my friends mother's used to ask us to watch in our voices, is difficult to grasp on the web. Most especially if you haven't met the person in person, as it were.
A pithy theologian once offered a couple of words that I reflect upon and I would like to repeat here for mine and Your benefit:

"Love makes all the difference between what was said and what was heard."

I take this this way; I have to take the responsibility, as the reader, to invest love into the moment whether I Know if it was placed there by the author or not. Love is my tool of deeper understanding and Hearing is my responsibility; no matter what is or was said.

For those who have trouble with the words Love or God, they can be easily replaced with the words Innocence and Truest Nature (or try out your own).

Just a few more for fun:

"Be keenly aware of the world's call to judge, and love more the call of God to come home."

"If there's something in the eye, the whole body feels it."

"It should be obvious that the evidence of love, unity, and wholeness in our lives will begin to disappear whenever we choose to be special and seperate."

These words were written by Hugh Prather, a United Methodist Minister. The meaning is written in your heart.

In love,
jen smith

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 05-03-2007 at 08:58 AM. Reason: type-o
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 11:44 PM   #28
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,890
Re: Respect

Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
Can I take a moment to remind people that, although this is the "Open Discussion" forum where any topic may be discussed, the same forum rules as in the other forums including "Treat your fellow AikiWeb Forums members with respect" still applies?

I know that there are some "controversial" subjects that are currently being discussed which I think is great! But, please do approach your discussions with a modicum of civility, tact, and diplomacy as well as a healthy dollop of respect.
I wrote the above over five years ago and I want to remind everyone here in the Open Discussions forum to read it again.

I'll be honest and say that the manner in which people are posting here in the Open Discussions forum, especially in the political threads, has been very disappointing. The conduct I see repeated day after day, post after post, really makes me shake my head. Where is your respect? Where is your dignity?

Stop stooping to baiting each other with snide little personal comments. Discuss the issues, not the persons and personalities involved in the discussions. If you can't conduct respectful, mature discussions here on AikiWeb, please do me a favor and take your discussions elsewhere.

I'm really getting tired of it all, folks.

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2009, 09:16 PM   #29
Jose Dundee Santos
Dojo: Manila Aikido Club
Location: Manila, Philippines
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3
Re: Respect

Fellow aikidokas,

If we are really aikidokas, we should follow the
teachings of O'Sensei. Sometimes we do bad
things but we still have time to correct them.

We dont need specific rules, the meaning of
Ai-Ki-Do speaks for it self, if we really are

Sensei Dundee
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 04:14 PM   #30
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,267
Re: Respect

Jose Dundee Santos wrote: View Post
Fellow aikidokas,

If we are really aikidokas, we should follow the
teachings of O'Sensei. Sometimes we do bad
things but we still have time to correct them.

We dont need specific rules, the meaning of
Ai-Ki-Do speaks for it self, if we really are

Sensei Dundee
Geez, that simple?

"we should follow the teachings of O'Sensei"

His own UCHIDESHI couldn't decipher what he was saying. You know so pat what Osensei's teachings were? As Peter Goldsbury demonstrates, we can't even figure out his words sometimes. Just what were his teachings? And all those UCHIDESHI who don't talk to each other, are they not really aikidoka? If not, who is?

"the meaning of Ai-Ki-Do speaks for it self, if we really are

Sorry, but no. It hardly does, and tomes' worth of discussion just here demonstrate. And whether we're "true" Ai-Ki-Dokas is tautologous and argumentative. What that means is we're doing what YOU approve of. Why do you deserve this authority? Sorry, don't know that you do.

Neither Aikido nor Osensei end arguments and I'm really weary and irritated that folks still wave them as talismans to win arguments without dissent. My regard for aikido derives as much from the values I came to aikido with as those it purportedly offers. And frankly, where they may differ, I'm often as inclined to adhere to the former as than the latter, no apologies offered.

And as to Osensei as avatar of all good and sound; would you so quickly forget Osensei's abandonment, as Omoto folk felt it? It caused a lifelong rift between him and his cousin, theretofore his closest associate. What happened to harmony there?

How about the way he avoided contact with Takeda? What happened to harmony there?

What about the way he agreed with the verbal savaging given to Saito without demur, protest, or defense? Saito who'd devoted his life, and plaintively from her quarter, his wife's to Osensei's service?

Osensei deified? No thanks. He was a man, not a trump card.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2009, 09:12 PM   #31
Dan O'Day
Dan O'Day's Avatar
Location: Redmond, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 34
Re: Respect

Respect is a tough issue since, like everything else, it's defined subjectively.

So I guess it comes back, as always, to what intent is. If I can post a thought or reply to one and know that my intent is to simply share a viewpoint, then it's a non-issue. If my intent is to share a viewpoint but to also point out the "error" of the respondant's ways...then I need to stop, back up and consider what is driving me to do that.

But it's a tough cookie to be consistent with that. At least for me. You know...what about the situation where it seems so incredibly obvious that a posted viewpoint is just flat out wrong?

Well in that situation I can always remember the words of Quiet Hank..."Let other people be right", he would say as well as "All belief is valid".

So unless someone specifically asks for my opinion on whether I believe their thoughts to be screwy or not, then I will pretty much always be in the wrong when specifically addressing another person's beliefs.

Then there is the "it's all in the delivery" factor. To put forth a position that is at great odds with another's but to do it with absolute respect. That can be a good deal. But even that is not always received well.

And that's ok because it comes right back to intent. If I'm ok with my intent, I know it is pure and without the tarnishings of ego, then it matters not a whit what another's reaction to it is.

Yep. It happened right on this board awhile back. I went out of my way to be respectful in presenting a view which ran counter to that presented by a long time well known aikido person and he responded in a manner not reciprocal at all in the respect department.

So it's cool. I just don't need to engage that person in online conversation. If I do, then I need to seriously check on my intent because more than likely my only reason for further communication would be to satisfy some ego drive of "Ha, gotcha" type of thing.

I think where respect issues are the toughest to maintain is when posting in the political arena. Politics are seriously heavy stuff. And I do not support ignoring it just because it gets ugly occasionally. No...I think it presents a great opportunity for all people to overcome the challenges presented by conflicting viewpoints on serious matters.

So keep on posting. Even when it's tough!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2009, 09:39 AM   #32
thisisnotreal's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 694
Re: Respect

Hi Dan,
Hope it's okay if I comment on this.
I appreciate and share the spirit in which you offer your post...but I have a problem with this
Well in that situation I can always remember the words of Quiet Hank..."Let other people be right", he would say as well as "All belief is valid".
Here's the thing.. I cannot with a clear conscience believe in this type of complete relativism. And especially when this bleeds into other areas.
My experience in this life so far shows me that there are right things and there are wrong things. When the right things are *provable* then they are facts. Some things are taken on faith; as the trail of established facts cannot yet touch everything that we can see, witness or consider.
I want to be right. If I am not right; and have made a mistake; then I hope I have the good sense to correct myself. IOW; I will change my mind. If everything is as equally valid as everything else...then where on earth does this lead? Maybe I misread this and am arguing the wrong thing here. That's not what you meant, is it?

And regarding the other part "All belief is valid".
Well, I appreciate that the spirit of this is in respecting everyone. Is it not? But how can all belief be valid? It seems clear to me that some people can believe some pretty absurd things....in what way exactly is that to be considered valid? And the limiting case of this argument is when something is against repeatedly proven and established fact. There is a flatearth society...surely they are having fun...but it is quite simply a *wrong* or mistaken belief, if earnestly held. Can you disagree with this? Following this train of thought; Is it rude to offer correction to someone? And on and on..

Maybe you don't mean it literally ("All belief is valid"), but maybe you do. I think, again, that this is offered in a spirit of loving respect. That is good! But is all belief valid? All true? Is this the best way to represent that idea (respect of others)? What does 'valid' even mean? Wouldn't something have to have been invalid in order to ontologically define it this way.

Anyway; you made me think...so this is what you get.
Cheers Dan.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2009, 10:19 AM   #33
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
Re: Respect

I always think of this short animation when "respect" comes up.


Especially the part at 5:07-5:12. Respect came from ... ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2009, 08:01 PM   #34
Dan O'Day
Dan O'Day's Avatar
Location: Redmond, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 34
Re: Respect

Jose, thank you for replying.

On the "let others be right". let me give you an example.

I'm a carpenter and I work with another carpenter. We're cutting some 2 x 4's. I yell out. Cut 'em at 27 3/4". A few minutes later he gives me ten sticks at 28 3/4". I say, No man, I said 27 3/4" not 28 3/4".

Then he says, Nope, you said 28 3/4".

This could go on and on or I can "let others be right" and say, You're right and I was wrong.

One can do this even when they are absolutely 100% positive that they are correct. The lesson is in the experience of actually doing it.

Something happens. There's a realization of what the need to be right is often all about and a realization of how much pressure is released when one lets go of that need.

I mean, why do I need to be right? Isn't it primarily an act of defending myself from some perceieved threat or stigma of "wrongism"? Why do I feel this need to defend myself? Is it about a seawrch for approval? Whose approval am I really after? If I have my own, is that not enough? And if it is enough, then why not simply let others be right?

The "all belief is valid" thing took me awhile to get. What Quiet Hank was telling is that belief - when sincere - is exactly that...belief. It simply is and as such is completely valid for the holder of a given belief.

I may not like it but I can't very well argue with it. This doesn't mean I can't present facts which might cause one to change their belief and it doesn't mean that I should be absolute in my own beliefs to the point of not listening to points potentially counter to my belief(s).

I tell you what, it significantly changed my way of seeing other people once I accepted it.

Quiet Hank, by the way, has been kind of a mentor to me for many years. Incidentally, he's an old judo guy from way back in LA. Santa Monica and other places. He doesn't train anymore but in his day, he was the man.

Today, he doesn't do competition and that's what got me to take a look at aikido years 6 back when I first started. I liked the no competition thing and still do, of course, since competition is all about being "right". A belif of mine, by the way. Perfectly valid but maybe worng? I don't know. All I know is that I may change my mind on it tomorrow. And if I do it in no way minimizes the belief held prior.

On the use of the term "valid"...hmmmm...I'm not much for the "dualism" deal. Can't have valid if there is no invalid, or can't have joy without knowing pain, etc. Nope. Yin Yang. Big, small, fast, slow, tall, short, right and wrong. Nope. Our universe has far more dimensions than just the two. This or that? I'll take the other thing anyday.

Last edited by Dan O'Day : 11-09-2009 at 08:12 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2009, 11:27 PM   #35
michael tan
Dojo: Aikido At The Red Barn
Location: Exeter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6
United Nations
Smile Re: Respect

Hai, it seems as though respect is slowly leaving us like a memory fades with time. It is important for us all to remember respect is and always has been an intricate part of martial training and more importantly in Aiki training. And thank you for the welcome Jun.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 12:47 AM   #36
Melchizedek's Avatar
Dojo: Phil. Aikikai/Santiago Aikido Club
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 96
Re: Respect

Ai goes 1st, to study and the rest will fall naturally in its places, we all have same color of blood & same sky but different kinds horizon.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 12:55 PM   #37
mathewjgano's Avatar
Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,133
Re: Respect

Dan O'Day wrote: View Post
One can do this even when they are absolutely 100% positive that they are correct. The lesson is in the experience of actually doing it.
I'm not much for the "dualism" deal. Can't have valid if there is no invalid, or can't have joy without knowing pain, etc. Nope. Yin Yang. Big, small, fast, slow, tall, short, right and wrong. Nope. Our universe has far more dimensions than just the two. This or that? I'll take the other thing anyday.
Nicely said, Dan. Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I enjoyed reading them greatly.
Take care,

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2010, 02:36 PM   #38
Eugene Leslie
Eugene Leslie's Avatar
Location: Red Deer
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 59
Re: Respect

I won't tolerate your intolerance!!!!

Last edited by Eugene Leslie : 01-24-2010 at 05:10 PM.

Self-discipline is the chief element of self-esteem; and self-esteem the chief element of courage. Thucydides
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 09:54 AM   #39
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 64
United Kingdom
Re: Respect

I stopped reading here for a bit because I found it was getting me down.


Mauricio Camargo wrote: View Post
"In the several years after O'Sensei's passing, one high ranking teacher was making plans to split away from Hombu Dojo and start his own group. During those years, he and his followers said many negative and demeaning things against 2nd Doshu, but Doshu never made any comment - to the point that even his supporters were becoming very frustrated and disappointed in him. One day, I couldn't stand it any longer and went to Doshu and said, "Why don't you say something back against this person or defend yourself against such remarks, it is so painful to all of us to hear such things."

Doshu became very stern and reprimanded me saying (literally), "We practice Aikido, we do not say bad things against others." And he turned and walked away."

Here one of the reasons why I practice aikido
When I grow down-heartened by those disparaging aikido as fake, or exhorting us to be more realistic, or aggressive, such as can be seen all over youtube and sometimes on here, I pick up Kisshomaru Ueshiba's Spirit of Aikido and re-read

"These criticisms are understandable and come especially from those who seek thrills in victory and conquest or from those who have stereotypes of martial arts as consisting of shouting, hissing, kicking, hitting and destroying people." p.17

"Aikido rejects all forms of violence, justified or unjustified. Otherwise we would be no different from the forms of martial arts in which fighting and winning are selling points.
At the risk of seeming repetitious, I want to say again that aikido is a spiritual path and its ideal is the realisation of harmony and love. By disciplining mind and body, especially mind, it leads to the perfection of personality and humanity.
"p 54

Don't get me wrong, we train hard with ukes showing intent and nages showing atemi but nevertheless the above quotes are at the heart of the matter for me and I refuse to surrender my idealism.

Just realised I've necroed this thread (and not for the first time), was sure it was showing in "new posts", ah well

Last edited by PaulF : 06-20-2013 at 09:57 AM.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Article: Respect and Idolatry by "The Grindstone" AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 04-26-2006 11:30 AM
Article: Respect and Plastic Budo Figurines by "The Grindstone" AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 6 02-21-2006 12:03 PM
underestimated anon1 Anonymous 25 12-22-2005 04:35 PM
Respect for the Art of Aikido paladin General 14 06-11-2004 08:58 AM

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:27 PM.

vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2015 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Copyright 1997-2015 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate