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Old 09-07-2002, 11:06 PM   #76
virginia_kyu
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
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Quote:
Sometimes though things you see as an attack is someone just trying to be honest with you and show you "flaws" or weaknesses in your "technique". It is hard for all of us to accept criticism from time to time.
Not sure that someone calling you a "liar" or "two faced" qualifies as someone trying to have an honest dialogue Kevin.

I really feel like I am on another planet here. Someone calls me a "liar" and a "lowlife" (as on the iraq thread) and then I am accused of engaging in ego battles for defending myself. This while you (and others) completely brush aside the absolutely hateful comments made against me here.

There is a very bizarre dynamic here on these forums man. I think that what many of you mean when you say "understanding one another" is actually "Come around to our way of thinking or else."

That is why I choose not to continue here, because there are all kinds of hidden agendas behind what people say here and that there is an incredible phoniness to all of this "harmony" stuff.

And this is also making me seriously consider whether Aikido is right for me at all.

Last edited by virginia_kyu : 09-07-2002 at 11:09 PM.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
 
Old 09-07-2002, 11:38 PM   #77
virginia_kyu
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Actually, Aikido is right for me, its just that many people on these forums are not.

See you on the mat Kevin, and let us forget all of this nonsense here anyway becuase that is what it is.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
 
Old 09-08-2002, 01:17 AM   #78
opherdonchin
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Quote:
Not sure that someone calling you a "liar" or "two faced" qualifies as someone trying to have an honest dialogue Kevin.

I really feel like I am on another planet here. Someone calls me a "liar" and a "lowlife" (as on the iraq thread) and then I am accused of engaging in ego battles for defending myself. This while you (and others) completely brush aside the absolutely hateful comments made against me here.
Hey Mike,

You do what you feel is right for you. Seriously.

I actually do believe (with the threads that I've been following and I'm not sure I've seen everything) that the people who made inappropriate comments actually were trying to have an honest dialogue. They just weren't doing the best job possible. While their comments were clearly innappropriate (and perhaps some of mine were, too, I don't know for sure), you often react defensively and the situation sort of spirals out of control. I'm not blaming you here: I think that a number of people who posted in response to your threads (again, possibly including me) posted stuff that was not respectful and even provocative. Still, like Kevin said, you can't have a fight without two combatants.

By the way, maybe for me that's the real message of AiKiDo. It takes two to have a fight. I guess I was brought up believing that it only took one combatant (and one victim) and so I struggled to make sure that I was in the victim's role (and therefore justified). I don't believe that any more. I don't believe it in politics either (just to be on topic briefly).

I had an interesting experience today that keeps seeming relevant to me. I'm going to sneak it in here because I really want to tell about it and I figure by this point not too many people are reading this thread.

I was visiting a dojo where nobody knows me. Because hakama are bulky to carry and because I think it's right, I wore a white belt. At ASU dojos, white belt and no hakama usually means 'not yet 5th kyu.'

I've been in different dojos in this garb and have gotten different reactions. At this dojo, everyone wanted to teach me. That's fine. I'm always happy to learn, even if learning only means learning how to swallow pride, bow, and say 'thank you.'

Still, my uke is my uke, and sometimes things were hard for one student or another. I'm not saying I was any better than them; that's just the way it was. Anyway, at one point the sensei was trying to show me something (I'm not sure: I believe he was began with helping me on something I was having trouble with, but he may have been trying to show me why it is wrong to resist) and things were hard for him. I wasn't trying to make it hard; that's just the way it was. He didn't give up though. He just kept tossing me around, changing techniques, and working with me.

Pretty soon the whole class was watching. It was pretty athletic. Sometimes it was beautiful and flowing; other times it was ugly struggles. It kept going on and on, down and up. He was having difficulty (in my judgement) because he was using a little too much force (aren't we all always doing that) and perhaps he is used to getting away with that because he is a big man and a talented aikidoka. Or maybe he was doing it on purpose.

Anyway, it was a lot of fun for me and a little bit scary not to know whether we were 'competing' or 'training.' I've rarely had the experience of trying my best to do AiKiDo while I'm really not sure whether or not that is what my partner is also going for. If I have felt that way in the past, it's always with beginners where I feel like I have the right and responsibilty to keep things slow and safe. This was definitly living on the edge, as far as I was concerend. We stopped when he noticed that he'd scratched my neck doing a head-o-toshi. After class he made a couple of comments about how 'we can be trying to make a point' and how that can get in the way sometimes. I'm not sure whether he meant him or me or both of us.

So, the really interesting thing is that after the class one of the guys I'd been working with who had trouble came up to me, took me aside, and told me two things: 1) that when I resist him, I create openings that he can exploit for other techniques, and (2) when the instructor is demonstrating with me, we are part of a team that works together for the class. I thought, for a moment, about sharing my feelings with him. Then I thought better of it, swallowed my pride, bowed, and said 'thank you.'

I'm not sure what I learned from all this, but something tells me that even if I don't know what it is, I learned a lot.

So, Mike, I look forward to seeing you on the mat and I apologize for any offense I may have given you. I hope that now or in the future you can re-read all those obnoxious posts with the kind of generosity that would make it impossible for the posts to be hurtful to you. If you always assume that everyone is on your side, there is no one left to fight. (Hey! Back on topic again by accident).

Yours in Aiki
Opher
 
Old 09-08-2002, 08:09 AM   #79
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Understanding someone does not require that you come around to their way of thinking. Only that you can completely understand the person at the core level. We all have underlying "issues" that we deal with. Some people may feel strongly about military intervention because of fear of losing a lifesyle. Some may oppose it because of fear of losing their life. The root cause of both sides of the poles is fear that we may lose something that as Americans we value. So why we both argue about the superficial arguments that your wrong, I'am right, call them "stupid", "tree hugger", "capitalist pig"...we waste time that could be spent on finding common ground that would allow us to find the middle ground and a better way to peace.

This is not easy to do and requires people to place aside their egos (not values) but egos and work past their personal issues.

I think you have many options as a way to defend yourself.

As in aikido, I can choose to blend "negative energy" and figure out how to slowly get you to look past your ego and feelings and bring you through to see things my way.

Or, I can hit you back just as hard as you hit me, or hit even more.

What I saw on the iraq

 
Old 09-08-2002, 08:25 AM   #80
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sorry accidently hit the wrong button on my last reply...here is the continuation!

What I saw on the Iraq thread was what I have seen on the mat in many dojos during kumite.

We line up, bow to each other, square off, one person presents an atemi, the other blocks it, he presents an atemi, then quickly someone gets popped hard, emotions run high, energy picks up...then you see a flurry of hands, feet, bodies, as they wilding flail through various techniques back and forth back and forth, until someone gets hurt, or they go away mad at each other, and no one learns anything.

Lots of rhetoric in that thread..."I know this is right...here are the facts. "No your wrong...here are the facts" "I am well informed on this issue, let me prove it by writing a two page discertation on why I am qualified.

Heck I didn't learn much about the situation, other than the amazing lengths that people can go to form a response! What did we learn from that thread?

So, you have options....just like in aikido on the mat, we must unlearn our old way of doing things, get rid of the clashing, and learn to redirect, change things slightly, until we can find the middle ground and harmonize.

Mike, I am not picking sides at all. I think you are correct on the actions of others being wrong. Even if they attack first though, as aikidoka, it makes it just as wrong if you "clock" them back...that is my point.

Aikido has a core set of principles and values. I sincerely think that all that are participating on these threads with us share those core values, and that there is room for all things from conservatives and liberals. Much of what I am seeing in these threads are peoples attempts to reconcile themselves against these values. We need to help each other find that path.

Ultimately those who cannot reconcile against those, will leave. I hope you will continue to stay and discuss things, and be open to new ideas and ways at looking at things.

I really admire your tenacity, and cricital thought. It is valid and reasonable, and there is nothing wrong with your thoughts and ideas. I personally, do not expect you to change or see things my way, only to understand.

Those "harmonizers" that you say are being phonies, well please try and look a little deeper before you dismiss them, I think you will find that like all of us, they are struggling as well to find the path, so with that we can all agree to help each other.

Look at them as simply on the opposite end of a straight line where both of you are looking at the goal in the middle.

Again, I am not siding with anyone so please don't think I am saying you are wrong to have the feeling that you do...nor are they wrong.

What was wrong is the manner we chose to react.

Please keep at it Mike, you willingness to read these post, and to continue dialogue proves to me that deep down you are really trying to understand and that is what this is all about!

Have a great day!

 
Old 09-08-2002, 01:02 PM   #81
virginia_kyu
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Opher, BTW I was not referring to you at all. I enjoyed all of the conversation and debate we had. And the same with you Kevin. And I really think most people here are fine people, regardless if I disagree with them, I just think there is a handful of people here that are space aliens and I really need to get back to earth.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
 
Old 09-09-2002, 11:57 AM   #82
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one of the risks of the internet is that it is all to easy to find a fellowship of opinions and stay there.

you can now find special interests groups on just about anything. you can log in there and find similar minded people and rejoice in the commonality of your ideas.

The danger is that we lose touch with the reality that most people don't agree and don't share the same ideas.

This forum is an interesting mix. We can't DO aikido as in training. Have you noticed how frustrating it is to discuss tecnhique by writing?

On the other hand, as Aikido people we share some core tenets. One that I think we don't disagree on too much, is that we can learn from conflict.

I'm all to willing to jump in the fray.. it's fun!

I think as people involved in Aikido we are willing to do this, to go out on a limb and give honest attacks with vigour and emtotion, and to trust that the spirit of the exchange will be to find harmony out of this conflict.

I've grown frustrated many times reading some of the flame wars that get out of hand or become noise. Invariably though these discussions do not die in disagreement / chaos. There 's people willing to pick them up and continue on and on..

this is about the only way I think we can have an Aikido like experience through the discussion forum.

I'm appreciating it more and more..

Alfonso Adriasola
 
Old 09-09-2002, 12:40 PM   #83
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Well said Alfonso!

 
Old 09-11-2002, 04:17 AM   #84
Neil Mick
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Quote:
Michael Neal (virginia_kyu) wrote:
Actually, Aikido is right for me, its just that many people on these forums are not.

See you on the mat Kevin, and let us forget all of this nonsense here anyway becuase that is what it is.
I've been puzzling over this response for weeks, now. And I still have no answers, only a question.

But first, a story: when I had studied Aikido for about 3 months I encountered a man in Saotame Sensei's dojo; it was not a positive initial experience. He was a lot older (maybe a brown belt, in experience) and stiffer.

There were no harsh words exchanged, but from the moment I was his uke, I knew that the "chemistry" was wrong. He got very pushy about his directions: even tho he never said a word. I felt disrespected in a way I don't often encounter in Aikidoists, then or since.

To this day I have no idea what pissed him off, and I've thought about it, a lot.

Anyway, months later, I was his uke, again. We were a lot more civil (maybe I "got" whatever it was he was trying to "say") toward each other...even tho I can't say the practice was "positive." But it was a step in the right direction.

Isn't Aikido about learning to blend (or understand) with that which you don't necessarily agree? Is one person's wisdom really nonsense? Or simply another way of looking?
 
Old 09-11-2002, 03:42 PM   #85
virginia_kyu
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Isn't Aikido about learning to blend (or understand) with that which you don't necessarily agree? Is one person's wisdom really nonsense? Or simply another way of looking?
I did not say that his wisdom was nonsense I meant that these bickerings were nonsense.

And I also don't buy into the notion that Aikido is about "understanding" eachother, I believe Aikido is about defending yourself in an ethical manner. This is exactly what bothers me so much, people using their vision of Aikido philosophy to tell others how to think.

Anyway, I have no problem "understanding" other people's arguments I just disagree with many of them. What is your definition of "understanding" anyway?

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
 
Old 09-11-2002, 03:53 PM   #86
opherdonchin
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What is your definition of "understanding" anyway?
An excellent question! I've certainly noticed that there is a difference between one person 'feeling understood' and another person 'feeling that they understand.' Usually (and this is, by the way, something that developed in part with my AiKiDo), I find it most useful to define understanding in terms of the feeling that the speaker has that they are understood. That is, I tell myself that if they don't feel understood, then I haven't understood.

On the other hand, it can be just as useful to think of it in terms of multiple understandings. That is, while my partner does not feel understood, I may have an understanding of what they are saying which I feel has some value. I've certainly learned from AiKiDo that I'm probably more likely to bring them to see that value if I do my best to make sure they feel understood.
Quote:
I believe Aikido is about defending yourself in an ethical manner.
Hmmm ... I don't think I would ever have introduced the word 'ethical' to a discussion of AiKiDo. It seems very foreign to the philosophy from my viewpoint. But, I'm not sure I understand. When I hear you say "defending yourself in an ethical" manner, I understand you to be saying "eliminating certain (possibly more effective) defense options because I consider them unethical." AiKiDo would then be, to your view, the development of certain (possibly less effective) defense options at the expense of other (possibly more effective) ones.

Is that right?

If so, and just to make sure I really understand, can you also tell me about the ethical framework that determines AiKiDo? That is, what are the central underlying values that say what is ethical and what isn't?

None of these questions are facetious. I feel like a lot of Michael's frustration with this group involves feeling mis-understood, and I really want to understand before I respond.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
 
Old 09-11-2002, 10:26 PM   #87
virginia_kyu
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Quote:
An excellent question! I've certainly noticed that there is a difference between one person 'feeling understood' and another person 'feeling that they understand.' Usually (and this is, by the way, something that developed in part with my AiKiDo), I find it most useful to define understanding in terms of the feeling that the speaker has that they are understood. That is, I tell myself that if they don't feel understood, then I haven't understood.

On the other hand, it can be just as useful to think of it in terms of multiple understandings. That is, while my partner does not feel understood, I may have an understanding of what they are saying which I feel has some value. I've certainly learned from AiKiDo that I'm probably more likely to bring them to see that value if I do my best to make sure they feel understood.
My head is spinning after reading that, I am not sure I understand what you are saying here.

I don't think Aikido substites an ineffective technique for an effecive one. I believe that Aikido is effective, I have read lots of accounts on here and many other Aikido sites that demonstrate this.

I think it is pretty clear that ethics make up a strong part of what Aikido is about. Lets take for example, shihonage. In the aikijujutsu version of shihonage I believe that the intent of the technique is to break the attacker's limb. In Aikido on the other hand the attacker is either thrown or pinned and can be neutralized without serious bodily harm. I call that ethics, I don't know what else it is. From what I understand the ethics of Aikido is to attempt to nuetralize an attacker without killing him or doing serious harm if possible. If I am wrong please tell me.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
 
Old 09-12-2002, 12:03 AM   #88
virginia_kyu
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I guess I just don't get what you all mean by "understanding." I disagree that every argument is as valid as the next and that the goal is always to reach some consensus in the middle.

Opher, I certainly think that many of your thoughts here have value, this is because we have had several thoughtful conversations. I was not suggesting that our debates were the reason why I was upset. I was referring to what happened on the Iraq thread, there I was responding to propaganda and then personal attacks. I especially have no intention of attempting to be undertanding in those situations, IMHO they need to be challenged not understood.

I do agree with you and Kevin in that I did get angry and react too negatively and I regret it. But I only regret it because it got me off centered not that I was wrong for what I said to them.

The reason I said that I wanted to leave AikiWeb is because I am tired of constantly fending off personal attacks by people who see me as a representative of their political rivalry. People come out of nowhere to say that I am evil and should stop aikido and that I am a "liar" or "two faced" etc. I find it very difficult not to react to this kind of stuff in a hostile manner.

Then people tell me that I am getting out of whack and that I should be more understanding. I agree that I should be more temperate but not that I should be more understanding.

Now I am getting questions about this at my dojo, and I am worried about it because people could easily get a wrong impression about me from what people are saying about me here. Its not that I have received any negative feedback but I just don't like the remote possibility of this carrying over there.

I really value the people at my dojo and my instructor and I would be very upset if any negative feeling developed there over some stupid political battle here.

In fact I was talking to my instructor tonight about this and everything was fine but I was really nervous about it.

While talking this over in my head I was thinking and worrying that all of this crap here could reflect negatively on our dojo. Not that it should but some people are ultra sensitive about his stuff as we have witnessed by Colleen in the Iraq thread.

Again, I value my dojo and the people there too much to risk having any tension there whatsoever. My instructor encouraged me to continue posting here and right now everything is fine but I would like to keep it that way because you never know who will be offended.

Kevin mentioned to me that the Aikido dojo is a sanctuary and I agree, this is why I don't wish to speak of politics here anymore.

Aikido and my dojo are too important to me to risk having my reputation soiled by mean spirited reckless people.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
 
Old 09-12-2002, 12:32 AM   #89
Currawong
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It rather shocks me to read threads like this, but doesn't surprise me. It has been over 2.5 years since I practiced Aikido, when I decided that I wasn't going where I wanted to go with it, but chose meditation instead.

Everyone seems so focussed on Aikido, their Aikido, O'Sensei and mentally trying to grasp an understanding of things that cannot be held by the mind.

It probably doesn't help that O'Sensei wasn't buddhist or that what he wrote often referenced concepts that we have no frame of reference to help us understand what he was talking about.

As long as everyone tries to use their mind to grasp Aiki, they will fail. Like the Chinese I-Ching oracle says, "If the vessel is weak, or the connection is not quite made, there will be misfortune.".

I have seen many cases where Aikido teachers, not to mention teachers of anything spiritual, are not enlightened (un"the connection is not quite made" like O'Sensei, or any spiritual master that has realised the Christ or Buddha within themselves - "achieved enlightenment") fall prey to their ego, and thus politics and other nonsense. When there is no proper master to guide us, we end up arguing over what is "right" when no such thing exists. Having an enlightened master gives us a connection to The Source (Aiki-o-kami - "Great Spirit of Aiki" or, more straightforwardly - God) and thus we are, for the most part, protected from the nonsense students of Aikido are having to put up with when people disagree over things.

It is why people worship master's who are hundreds or thousands of years past, as the master isn't there guide them (internally as well as externally), and they can have power over followers etc etc. This is fine if you like playing with your ego, but after a while, you go elsewhere, as I did.

So, in summary, if you wish to find the truth, you must seek it inside yourself, not externally. As within as without. There cannot be peace within a group until there is peace within each individual.

Be at peace within yourself. As more people see you at peace and follow your example, more peace shall be brought to the world.



(Recommended reading on this is Conversations with God.)
 
Old 09-12-2002, 02:12 AM   #90
mike lee
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face it

Quote:
I really value the people at my dojo and my instructor and I would be very upset if any negative feeling developed there over some stupid political battle here.
Then stop engaging in stupid political battles. If you don't understand the light, admit it, instead of expending all your effort in a futile attempt to vanquish it.
 
Old 09-12-2002, 06:56 AM   #91
Ghost Fox
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Thumbs up Re: face it

Quote:
Then stop engaging in stupid political battles. If you don't understand the light, admit it, instead of expending all your effort in a futile attempt to vanquish it.
Maybe it's not a failure to see the light, but frustration at being the only one who can see the light, and a desire to help others see the light.

In a city full of insane people, the sane man is crazy.

Just another point of view.

 
Old 09-12-2002, 07:42 AM   #92
mike lee
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Freaky! it's a mad, mad, mad world

Quote:
.. I just think there is a handful of people here that are space aliens ...
Sanity?
 
Old 09-12-2002, 07:47 AM   #93
Ghost Fox
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Sanity - the quality or state of being sane; especially : soundness or health of mind. (Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary)
 
Old 09-12-2002, 08:15 AM   #94
mike lee
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Dictionary: I have one.
 
Old 09-12-2002, 12:44 PM   #95
opherdonchin
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Quote:
Mike Lee wrote:
Then stop engaging in stupid political battles. If you don't understand the light, admit it, instead of expending all your effort in a futile attempt to vanquish it.
Mike, is that really constructive in the light of what has come before? That is, do you really suspect it will help Michael Neal see your point?
Quote:
Amos Barnett wrote:
I have seen many cases where Aikido teachers, not to mention teachers of anything spiritual, are not enlightened
I haven't see any cases of any group of people who were, on the whole, 'enlightened.' Neither am I. Are you?
Quote:
Michael Neal wrote:
I guess I just don't get what you all mean by "understanding." I disagree that every argument is as valid as the next and that the goal is always to reach some consensus in the middle.
Perhaps it's just semantics, but I would say that while all points of view are equally valid, they are not all equally insightful or deep.

I agree with you, Mike, that the goal is not to meet in the middle but rather to meet in the truth. I think, though, that trying hard to understand clearly what the other person sees is a first step towards helping them move on from that viewpoint. Similarly, you say that some viewpoints need to be challenged more than they need to be understood, but it is my experience that I can never effectively challenge another persons view point until I do deeply understand it.

Ultimately, for me, this ties in to the question of AiKiDo is a (possibly less effective) ethical means of defending yourself compared with other means that are less ethical (but may be more effective). It's true that shihonage, ideally, brings your partner to the ground without pain or injury, and that in jiujitsu a similar move might be used to break bones. I'm not sure you told me why the one is more ethical than the other. I'm still interested.

I value the AiKiDo way of doing it for a number of reasons, none of which have anything to do with ethics. At the bottom of the heirarchy is the question of effectiveness. The less intent I have of doing harm to another person, the less defensive and resistant they will be to what I'm doing. It's easier (for me) to do shihonage when I'm trying not to hurt and throw the other person than when I'm trying to. I do not create unnecessary resistance. On the next rung, there is an issue of my being open to different options. If my focus is not on hurting the other person, but rather feeling them and blending with them, I will be more responsive to the situation as it develops and more able to change my response. Giving up on a goal is hard to do: if the goal was to do a strong shihonage, it will be hard for me to change that; if the goal was to listen and respond, I won't need to change that. Another rung, for me, is my own relationship with myself. I've found that it's almost always true that if I'm angry at someone or want to hurt them, then there is something in me that I'm afraid of seeing or don't want to deal with. By focusing on my own awareness of my vulnerability and accepting it, I put myself in a better position to learn. I'm sure there are lots of other ways of looking at it, but this is my take on why AiKiDo chooses not to hurt others. Ethics just isn't a factor.
Quote:
I do agree with you and Kevin in that I did get angry and react too negatively and I regret it. But I only regret it because it got me off centered not that I was wrong for what I said to them.
And, perhaps, because it contributed to the escalating spiral of hostility which was, ultimately, not what you wanted. Yes?

I supsect that for some of them, also, it was the lack of centeredness and AiKi in their attack, and not the truth or lack of it of their words, that would trouble them most. Just like you recognize you could probably have been more gentle, but also recognize what it was about them that brought out those other sides of you, it's probably true that many of them feel they should have been more gentle, but they also see what it was about you that made that so hard for them. That's where AiKiDo comes in, I think.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
 
Old 09-12-2002, 12:46 PM   #96
virginia_kyu
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Arlington, Virginia
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 95
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Re: face it

Quote:
Mike Lee (mike lee) wrote:
Then stop engaging in stupid political battles. If you don't understand the light, admit it, instead of expending all your effort in a futile attempt to vanquish it.
Mike, you are a great example of what I am talking about. You consider yourself englightened by the light, whatever that means, and then call people "two-faced," making personal attacks. I certanily don't consider you enlightened at all and you are certainly in no position to have this condescending attitude with me.
Quote:
So, in summary, if you wish to find the truth, you must seek it inside yourself, not externally. As within as without. There cannot be peace within a group until there is peace within each individual.
I am not here seeking anything at all. I was just trying to have a discussion and debate about some things. And I find you telling me that I have to find peace in myself offensive given the circumstances here.

I did not ask for anyone's spiritual guidance, nor did I join Aikido in order to be told what is Aiki or not. I already have a religion and I am quite at peace with it and myself.

Regardles if you all want to believe it or not you are being aggressive with your philosophy here. I think maybe you guys should examine yourselves for a while to see how far you have strayed from your own belief system in trying to promote it.

Anyway, I have tried the best I can to explain where I am coming from here. This is definately my last post here, I wish you all the best.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
 
Old 09-12-2002, 01:58 PM   #97
Deb Fisher
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 145
Offline
What's the definition of "troll" again?

I don't want to be uncharitable, but reading through this it feels like Michael's baiting you folks, intentionally or unintentionally.

Deb Fisher
 
Old 09-12-2002, 02:23 PM   #98
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Offline
Of course he is. That doesn't mean I haven't learned anything, though. Michael has his goals, whatever they are, and I have mine.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
 
Old 09-13-2002, 12:11 AM   #99
virginia_kyu
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Arlington, Virginia
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 95
Offline
Again with the personal attacks. I honestly wish to leave here on a positive note without someone throwing in some kind of cheap parting shot.

And please don't think I am getting worked up now, I am smiling and laughing because I simply am amazed at what is occuring here.

There is an active campaign here by some to misrepresent and mischaracterize everything I say. Some people here are misunderstanding me while others are deliberately twisting my words and intent.

I certainly am not here to bait people. I am not posting here for the purpose of getting people worked up and angry. Many people are doing a fine job of that on their own.

I have honest disagreements with people here on philosophy and politics, just trying to get my point of view in with everyone elses. I also have pointed out what I believe to be flaws in some people's arguments.

I regret that I let some people get me worked up but my intent was not to hurt or attack people but to defend myself against false claims made about me.

So I think calling me a "troll" is unjustified and I am sorry you feel that I am some sort of bogey man. I think if you got to know mw in person you would find that I am generally very quiet, calm, relaxed, and polite.

I am also being called insane and having my words and intent twisted around. I make a joke about how I think some people here are space aliens and someone then tries to make the case that I am crazy and that I believe that I am actually talking to aliens here.

You have gotta laugh at this stuff

I really honestly wish the very best to all of you, yes even the aliens here, lol

I know that I keep saying that each time it is my last post but I would really honestly like to leave here in peace and on a positive note. I think that it is not such a bad idea here to agree to disagree rather than trying to continue a war of words and accusations.

I am extending my hand in peace to all of you and I hope it is possible for you to do the same.

PS: For the record, I do not believe in aliens or spaceships at all but I did enjoy watching the X-Files when it was on. There was just something about Dana Scully.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
 
Old 09-13-2002, 12:34 AM   #100
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 225
Offline
Live long and prosper, dude
 

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