Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Spiritual

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-28-2002, 01:43 PM   #26
bcole23
Dojo: Eagle Rock Aikido, Ammon, ID
Location: Ammon, ID
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 120
United_States
Offline
HH the Dalai Lama:

Responsibility does not only lie with the leaders of our countries or with those who have been appointed or elected to do a particular job. It lies with each of us individually. Peace, for example, starts within each one of us. When we have inner peace, we can be at peace with those around us. When our community is in a state of peace, it can share that peace with neighboring communities, and so on. When we feel love and kindness towards others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace. And there are ways in which we can consciously work to develop feelings of love and kindness.

For some of us, the most effective way to do so is through religious practice. For others it may be non-religious practices. What is important is that we each make a sincere effort to take our responsibility for each other and for the natural environment we live in seriously.

The Nobel Lecture, December 11, 1989

%us = map { $_ => q{belong} } @your_base;
http://www.eaglerockaikido.com
 
Old 08-28-2002, 02:35 PM   #27
virginia_kyu
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Arlington, Virginia
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 95
Offline
Quote:
Alfonso Adriasola (Alfonso) wrote:
Michael, If I don't vote republican will you still talk to me?

I think it's a misuse of Aikido to use it as a soapbox for politics.
Alfonso, I don't exactly understand what you are saying. Of course I will (and have) been talking to lots of people who I am pretty sure don't vote Republican.

About the soapbox, I think you are ignoring my whole point here that I think there should not be any politics in Aikido whether be mine or someone elses.

IMHO, Aikido is for self improvement and self defense, and if that in itself helps make a better world then great.

Quote:
HH the Dalai Lama:

Responsibility does not only lie with the leaders of our countries or with those who have been appointed or elected to do a particular job. It lies with each of us individually. Peace, for example, starts within each one of us. When we have inner peace, we can be at peace with those around us. When our community is in a state of peace, it can share that peace with neighboring communities, and so on. When we feel love and kindness towards others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace. And there are ways in which we can consciously work to develop feelings of love and kindness.

For some of us, the most effective way to do so is through religious practice. For others it may be non-religious practices. What is important is that we each make a sincere effort to take our responsibility for each other and for the natural environment we live in seriously.

The Nobel Lecture, December 11, 1989
That is nice and everything but I think you are going off the subject. If you want to post something by O'Sensei and then follow it up and relate it to what we are discussing then fine.

Last edited by virginia_kyu : 08-28-2002 at 02:42 PM.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
 
Old 08-28-2002, 02:46 PM   #28
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Looking through the post, I don't really see where Mike is using Aikido as "soapbox".

Then again, I think that is Mike's whole point to begin with....Not to use it as a soapbox.

Since no one "owns" aikido...and every person gets out of it what they want...then what is wrong with using it as a "soapbox" as long as it adheres to the principles of aikido.

After all, Aikido was O'Sensei's personal soapbox for the Art of Peace!

 
Old 08-28-2002, 02:57 PM   #29
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Michael,

I think Brandon's post is very relevant. Basically saying the same thing...it is about self improvement, you improve yourself you improve the world. (I know you already understand this though from our conversations!)

 
Old 08-28-2002, 03:36 PM   #30
Alfonso
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 346
Offline
I'm sorry man, didn't want to come off rude, but I don't think you want political discussion, just converts to your politics.

Agreeing that Aikido brings on personal development, I think it can inform political thought.

I don't think politics can inform my Aikido.

And I do think that Aiki-web is being used as a soap box for politics, witness three threads on that discussion. I also see atempts to link Aikido principles into supporting those political arguments.

Am I wrong in thinking you are actively engaged in politcs as an activist?

Alfonso Adriasola
 
Old 08-28-2002, 05:04 PM   #31
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
Offline
Some very good points

Wow, some very good points have come up.

Is each human being the center of the universe? That would be a yes.

You live your whole life in the form you are given. You can't get out and walk around outside of this form, and you must protect this form from outside forces ... I guess in a wierd way, we are each the center of the universe.

How we act and react to the innumerable creations that also the center of the universe ... Oww ... too much for my little brain.

If a small number of people don't make a difference, why does all of our important turning points in history have the mark of one particular person for certain events, when in fact many more are involved?

Would those events occur without these key people? Kind of the point we are debating here, isn't it?

Fact is ... if you didn't spend years training in Aikido, but maybe Karate, judo, or some other art, would your character be a charitable as it is from Aikido training?

It might be, but in my experience, the number is considerably smaller, and even after fifty years old there is still a ego or a pride to prove ones ability to beat other fighters.

If you have forgotten, or don't know about the ego or pride, go watch a sport karate contest sometime. See how many of them are good sports, making good friends (even with the lesser skilled participants), or are they somewhat snobbish ... stuck upon themselves?

Sit an watch an Aikido Seminar, then tell me what is different. Is it the Aikido that makes them different, or the people who practice Aikido who are different?

In either case, I think more people of Aikido are charitable, and do live in a better role model. That is why, even if you never become a great fighter, warrior, or fully understand the budo way, Aikido will make a differnce to change the world.

Oh, and even if some of us say the same thing in a different way, doesn't that go a long way to proving this thesis?
 
Old 08-28-2002, 05:41 PM   #32
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Bruce,

I think that Aikido tends to attract people that are somewhat "chartiable" in nature. Even though aikido can refine the person...it does not make the person.

There are many, many ways to let go of ego. Aikido didn't do it as much for me as meditation, but aikido helps me practice mindfullness and coming to grips with my ego.

I am not really following you alfonso? I think at some point you have to discuss current events to include politics if you want to apply the principles of aikido in daily life.

I think the intent is not so much to convert someone to anothers views...but an attempt to understand how or if you can use aikido principles in daily life.

 
Old 08-28-2002, 09:02 PM   #33
virginia_kyu
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Arlington, Virginia
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 95
Offline
Quote:
I think Brandon's post is very relevant. Basically saying the same thing...it is about self improvement, you improve yourself you improve the world. (I know you already understand this though from our conversations!)
Well I guess it is sort of relevant
Quote:
I'm sorry man, didn't want to come off rude, but I don't think you want political discussion, just converts to your politics.
Alfonso, no reason to apologize. I can take it, trust me.
Quote:
Agreeing that Aikido brings on personal development, I think it can inform political thought.

I don't think politics can inform my Aikido.

And I do think that Aiki-web is being used as a soap box for politics, witness three threads on that discussion. I also see atempts to link Aikido principles into supporting those political arguments.
not sure what you are trying to say here. How can you agree with using Aikido as a soapbox and then accuse me of engaging in political activism.
Quote:
Am I wrong in thinking you are actively engaged in politcs as an activist?
To address your question, no I am not here to win political converts and no I am not actively engaged in politics as an activist.

And if I were trying to win political converts I can assure you that the last place I would come to is an Aikido forum

Have I ever been involved in politics? Yes but so what.

Last edited by virginia_kyu : 08-28-2002 at 09:28 PM.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
 
Old 08-29-2002, 11:54 AM   #34
Alfonso
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 346
Offline
once again my apologies. I needed some pounding to take off the coffee edge. Got some last night and it made me a lot happier.

Just grouching.

Alfonso Adriasola
 
Old 08-29-2002, 09:11 PM   #35
virginia_kyu
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Arlington, Virginia
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 95
Offline
No problem You know I have been a little edgy myself lately too. I have had a bad sinus infection for a few weeks. There is nothing that gets me in a worse mood.

BTW, sorry I am going off subject here for just a second. Just to repeat what I said on another thread, for all of you who have been visiting my website trying to see a photo of what I look like, , I don't have any of me up yet. I will let you know when I upload any. However, my wife made me put up alot of photos of our cats to show to her friends.

I have been seeing alot of hits to my site from AikiWeb so I started thinking, "wow it must look pretty weird that I have a lot cat pictures on my site."


Last edited by virginia_kyu : 08-30-2002 at 06:44 AM.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
 
Old 09-04-2002, 01:08 PM   #36
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Offline
I've been gone for a while and a lot has happened.

A lot of people seem to agree that one of the most direct ways in which AiKiDo might or might not affect the world is through it's affect on individuals.

Very few people have weighed in on the question of whether AiKiDo actually informs their political views. I'm not sure I understand how someone could be deeply affected by AiKiDo without that affecting, at least in some ways, their political outlook. I guess one way would be if they felt that how their nation behaves follows a different system of values than how they themselves behave. Another possibility I can think of would be that AiKiDo had not changed their basic moral view (and hence their politics) but it had changed the immediate application of that morality to different situations. Like I said, I'm not sure I understand this very well.

In my case, AiKiDo has definately affected the way I understand political issues because it has changed in many ways my whole understanding of the world. For that reason, it also informs my political dialogue. I can't easily use concepts from AiKiDo when discussing politics with people who have never heard of it. However, when discussing politics with fellow AiKiDoka, using concepts that we have in common to describe my perspective seems very natural.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
 
Old 09-04-2002, 08:23 PM   #37
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
I would say that aikido has had an impact on the way I see politics. I tend to form less opinions now and find myself thinking harder about issues. Really it has opened my eyes up to see that many times in politics there is no right or wrong, only a difference in "technique".

 
Old 09-05-2002, 10:49 AM   #38
Alfonso
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 346
Offline
Hey if we agree that Aikido can inform our political views, can we start a new thread? I'm getting confused at the fact that these posts are in the Misuse of Aikido.

Is Aikido informing your personal political views a Misuse of Aikido?

If not, then let's discuss this under some other header.
 
Old 09-05-2002, 11:01 AM   #39
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
Offline
in the beginning there was darkness

I think the problem began because somebody thought that there was a conspiracy among a couple of posters to turn aikido worldwide into a massive political organization that would eventually rule the globe, forcing all of us to march in lockstep.

P.S. It could happen.
 
Old 09-05-2002, 11:04 AM   #40
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Offline
Hey Mike! Where are you? We need someone to take up the alternative viewpoint or we'll be sunk in a morass of helpless agreement!

Yours in Aiki
Opher
 
Old 09-05-2002, 11:28 AM   #41
Brian H
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 102
Offline
Silly TV contribution:

I was watching "Dinotopia" with my kids last week and while some of the "Its-OK-if-you-get-eaten-a-dinosaur-might-be-hungry" got on my nerves, one of the "laws of dinotopia" actually struck me as relevant to this on going debate here.

"One drop of rain raises the ocean"

While I was watching the movie just to humor the kids, that one little thing gave me something to ponder.

In the largeness of the world, and the fact that history will not begin or end with me, it would be immodest for me to believe that I make any more contribution than one drop of rain in the ocean, but I can make a difference. (I guess they don't know about the whole evaporation/cloud/rain cycle in "dinotopia"- or they just didn't like the complications)

Evil triumphs when good men do nothing
 
Old 09-05-2002, 11:51 AM   #42
virginia_kyu
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Arlington, Virginia
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 95
Offline
Quote:
I think the problem began because somebody thought that there was a conspiracy among a couple of posters to turn aikido worldwide into a massive political organization that would eventually rule the globe, forcing all of us to march in lockstep.
Pretty funny stuff. I was however concerned that many see Aikido as a political movement rather than a martial art. If Aikido helps inform your political view then fine, however personally I find it rather absurd.

Regardless, please don't tell me what the Aiki way of solving a political problem or a world crisis is or what is "un-aiki" or not. That kind of preaching is not Aikido it is your opinion.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
 
Old 09-05-2002, 11:58 AM   #43
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Offline
Ah, but here we get back to my (ever so insightful!) post from a while back:
Quote:
I wrote:
The second question is whether it's AiKi to say that someone else is not being AiKi. This is another valid question, whose answer is (for me) not trivial. The role of criticism in AiKiDo is something I've been struggling with for a while. Most people agree that it's good to be positive as much as possible, but it's harder to agree when it becomes appropriate to say, "that's (in my view) just not AiKiDo."
Now, I'm definitely willing to say that some perspectives on the world are just not aiki. Of course, as you say, that's my opinion, but, even if I'm a little embarassed about it, it is, in fact, my opinion.

And here is my litmus test (for both personal and national issues): if, when it's all over, you feel like you've won and they feel like they've lost, then it wasn't aiki. In general, if you are trying to win, it isn't aiki.

(That should breathe some life back into this, no?)

Yours in Aiki
Opher
 
Old 09-05-2002, 12:17 PM   #44
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,843
Offline
Interestingly enough, one of the original definitions of "aiki" as used in some koryu arts (established a long time before the founder of aikido was even born) was to dominate, crush, and (basically) kill the opponent by being able to "match" their movements and intent...

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
 
Old 09-05-2002, 12:26 PM   #45
aikigreg
Dojo: Mizu Aikido
Location: Ft. Worth Texas
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 94
Offline
I don't see what's so tough here. Aiki as a political movement would be my sensei or one of you telling me to vote for a certain candidate because to do so would be Aiki (when in reality it would be BS).

Another way aiki could be political is if one of us gets elected to some office, in which case I hope we use our Aikido powers for good and not evil.

Aikiweb is the sharing of opinions that lead to my benefit. Sometimes that benefit is just to realize I strongly disagree with someone, and sometimes the benefit is a new realization of something.

Aikido *IS* changing the world. Through our own personal growth. If Aiki has changed *you* it has changed the world. It is my utmost wish that as each of us walks the way we get closer to that universal harmony.
 
Old 09-05-2002, 01:39 PM   #46
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Offline
I just got a poster in the mail today from AiKiDo Today Magazine. It shows pictures of two pairs of hands in contact, ready for kokyu dosa or whatever you call it, and the legend read, "A Way to Reconcile the World"

Yours in Aiki
Opher
 
Old 09-05-2002, 08:28 PM   #47
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Michael,

Are you implying that you find it absurd that aikido could influence your outlook, philosophy, and paradigms towards politics?

If so, then it sounds like to me that you feel that aikido is "just a martial art" and is simply a bunch of "moves" that allows you to deal with "physical" conflict.

Not trying to put words in your mouth, nor do I really care if you "buy" into the spirituality or philsophy of aikido, but if you feel that way, I think your are missing a great deal of what Aikido has to offer, or any martial art for that matter.

 
Old 09-05-2002, 09:55 PM   #48
virginia_kyu
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Arlington, Virginia
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 95
Offline
I see Aikido as a set of ethics to apply towards martial situations, a dicipline for personal growth, a fun workout with friendly people, and a means for self defense.

When I say "personal growth" I mean just that, not political action. By all mean you guys can believe whatever you want I just happen to disagree with Aikido being used for that.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
 
Old 09-05-2002, 10:15 PM   #49
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Offline
But Mike, this is where I don't understand. What are your politics if not an extension of you in some way. How could 'personal growth' fail to influence your political outlook? Are you so sure of your politics that you never re-evaluate them? Or is there something specific about AiKiDo that makes you believe that it can not lead to the kind of growth that would change your political outlook.

This honestly confuses me.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
 
Old 09-05-2002, 10:29 PM   #50
virginia_kyu
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Arlington, Virginia
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 95
Offline
I simply don't see how performing Ikkyo has anything to do with what is going on in world affairs.

I can see how it would influence how I would handle a personal situation involving the potential for violence. However, I see no connection to politics here.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
 

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO Khaled General 155 12-16-2013 08:24 AM
Women and Everybody Else in Aikido George S. Ledyard Teaching 113 03-16-2008 07:27 PM
Omoto-kyo Theology senshincenter Spiritual 77 12-04-2005 09:50 PM
Proposta organização do Aikido Portugal kimusubi0 Portuguese 0 05-03-2004 03:26 AM
Two things. Veers General 8 04-04-2003 01:54 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:46 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate