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Old 08-28-2002, 06:05 AM   #76
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Well...if you want answers from senseis, I'd suggest either calling, writing, emailing, or cornering after a class or seminar. I can think of several (and so can you) that either live in the local area or frequently travel here...and somehow I don't imagine you being too shy

As for partners, I'd go with the answer you've already made: most of us know how to tactfully avoid those we'd rather avoid. If it is unbearable during a technique, a quiet excusal to rest/drink water/use the restroom/tape your ankle etc is fairly reasonable. If it seems like the other is getting a complex from you avoiding them, or certainly if they ask if you're avoiding them, you could always be honest and say you're having some personal issues you are dealing with...if they are nice Aiki people, they will understand and do their best to stay out of your way (if you have the attraction) or thank you for letting them down gently and move on (if they have the attraction)...better than all that tension I think.

Oh, and for all those who are now thinking "hmmm, she avoids me on the mat" it is just because I don't like you
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Old 08-28-2002, 06:24 AM   #77
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Quote:
Colleen Annes (ca) wrote:
If it is unbearable during a technique, a quiet excusal to rest/drink water/use the restroom/tape your ankle etc is fairly reasonable.
Might be OK, or not.All depending on the local standards for dojo behaviour. This kind of thing can easily be misused.
Quote:
Colleen Annes (ca) wrote:
If it seems like the other is getting a complex from you avoiding them, or certainly if they ask if you're avoiding them, you could always be honest and say you're having some personal issues you are dealing with...if they are nice Aiki people, they will understand and do their best to stay out of your way
If I wanted to avoid you simply because I am picky about who I choose to practise with, I would probably phrase my answer to your "why" exactly like this.

Regards,

Hanna
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Old 08-28-2002, 02:10 PM   #78
Deb Fisher
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Opher, as always insightful question!

Yes! I do have thoughts about this:

1. First, as a disclaimer, I think you can think aikido is sexy in general without feeling sexy while doing aikido. I totally agree with the earlier post - aikido is conceptually very sexy. That doesn't mean that I am throwing people around in a constant state of arousal or that I ever think about sex while training.

2. I think that someone who is thinking about sex during training is presenting her/his partners with yet another variation on "the difficult uke". I think that learning how to deal with any kind of inappropriate or not fun or bad energy (as long as it's not hurting anyone) in a connected, positive way - learning how to work with It, whatever It is, is the cornerstone - it's what I'm doing spending all the money and time learning aikido. Once class is over, if Joe Neckbone is asking you out or making nasty eyes or rude, lewd suggestions, etc, then boundary setting is of course more than called for. But I vote train on unless it hurts. I train with a couple of people who have weird energy that feels personal (not quite sure if it's sexual, pretty sure it's gender oriented and it's definitely a little creepy) and when I train with them I learn a lot from it. I learn how to train without compromising my integrity, how to hold my own even though the situation is a little intense, I confront one of my biggest everyday fears, which is this kind of creepy attitude that women I think get a lot of. It adds a sense of intensity that is very challenging - every once in awhile!

If everyone I train with was like that, I would quit, it would suck. But one or two of these experiences every once in awhile has been a very positive learning experience for me.

Deb Fisher
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Old 08-28-2002, 03:24 PM   #79
Janet5
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I have decided that I do not want to change the way my relationship is now with Sensei. Therefore I will keep my feelings to myself as I would rather continue learning from him than to have that change. After reading all of the posts, I do not want to completely ignore the fact that there is something more than just friends (potentially) but I will be patient and let things unfold as they should without any pressure on either end. I am grateful for everyones advice and I am glad that some of you got something out of this as well.
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Old 08-28-2002, 03:25 PM   #80
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Falling in love with your sensei is a bad idea, not that people have control over these feelings. There are instructors that take advantage of new, awe-struck students. There are even cases in which the sensei might feel a sense of entitlement to their female (usually) students in the same way a lord of the manor may see female subjects as their chattel.

Some get off on the power relationship inherent in a student/teacher situation. I believe the student is the one who suffers most, especially since they are on another's "turf" and can be easily manipulated.

I've seen a sensei obviously hook up with one student one night, and the following day, ignore her on the mat and deliberately focus instruction on all the other females present, a few of which were his former conquests. The poor student would just look up with wistful eyes, probably wondering how badly used she's been.

In situations where the feelings are mutual and sincere, dating the sensei is ok. But usually, as someone had stated earlier, the student has no idea what she or he is getting into until it's too late.

Hats off to those who can continue training under those circumstances and overcome that barrel the ugly feelings of being used and lied to.
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Old 08-28-2002, 03:28 PM   #81
Janet5
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Just so everyone knows...this particular Sensei is NOT at all some sort of Aiki player who goes around hunting for his next conquest.
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Old 08-28-2002, 06:42 PM   #82
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
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Just as an after thought, I have seen student who marry their martial arts teacher, become teachers themselves, and more than half of those marriages break up in the middle age period of 35 to 50 years old because of incompatability in these later years.

Should this fall into this category, the succesfull relationships are by those who support their mate, but actively pursue their own hobbies and interests to allow each to grow and become mature.
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Old 08-28-2002, 07:35 PM   #83
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As a teenage male, I see sensei [and the rest of the aikidoka] in my dojo as almost family. Romantic love, though, can cause problems in any previously solid non-romantic relationship. The question of jeopardizing a good friendship for the risk of something 'greater' is one that is far from rare among male/female friendships.

Unfortunately, there's no definitive answer.

I've experienced situations that went both ways, and know many people who would advise to "back off" and play it safe, and many who say go for whatever you feel.

I urge you, ironically, not to let the comments in this thread guide you. Use them, instead, like a coin toss. Don't go by which side turns up, but by your emotional reaction to whichever choice chance chooses.

If you read a response in this thread urging you to stay away, but in your heart and head you feel the urge to skip or disregard this comment - there you go.

If this is about ruining a teacher/student relationship, though, I suggest you persue romance. It's indeed possible for that relationship to continue. At my dojo, Sensei's wife practices with us. On the mat, she calls him sensei. Off the mat is a different story, of course.

Either way, good luck!

(and thanks for all of your time)
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Old 08-29-2002, 11:25 AM   #84
Chuck.Gordon
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Quote:
() wrote:
The majority of you are hippocrates.

ex-wanna be aikidoka
"First, do no harm"

seems relevant.

mle

posting as her LOEP & laughing hard enough to startle the cat..

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Old 08-29-2002, 11:51 AM   #85
Chuck.Gordon
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Quote:
Janet macaby (Janet5) wrote:
I have decided that I do not want to change the way my relationship is now with Sensei.
mle, too lazy to log out and be herself:

Janet, I'm gonna have an 80s moment.. thank you for sharing.

This is a real spectre in the world of teaching and training, what has been called the Svengali complex, that is, you fall for someone who is shaping you, has power over you somehow.

I could blather inaccurately about transference, but that's Lynn Seiser's territory so I'll hold off.

It's just very common to develop strong feelings in such intimate and intense surroundings. In fact, some think it the meat and potatoes of the experience. I have always been mad about my instructors, in choosing someone you click with you take the risk of losing your heart for a little while.

Concentrate on this: there is a third thing which is more important than the simple emotions of any two people, and that is the art itself. To pass it on is, in a way, an act of creation... one of my instructors told me that Ki was transmitted by sweat, and the other would simply bounce me around the mat after three hours of training until I was limp and mumbling. Yeah, that's sexy. It's incredible. If you aren't getting what you need elsewhere in your life, it can really own you. So, become more complete... fill the holes inside- find them, own them, fill them.

You need to have someone you can throw yourself against until you break.

And yes, it's a love you will cherish until you die, but it's one borne under different parameters.

That said, I'll share some of my rules:

Get to know someone for a year before you consider a Relationship.

Never, ever, ever date an instructor until you have your own black belt wrapped around your waist. Some horrid little part of the mind thinks it can get power by associating with it (you get cooties just as often) I call it "rent-a-belt disease" and I've seen it happen too many times.

That said, I am married to my instructor.

It wasn't easy, it was in fact disastrous at times. I was not a member of his dojo, and the relationship came before the training.

Not until I moved to be with him did I start training with him, and it was agreed that I didn't have to train with him. Training is a major part of both our lives, a major part of who we are, and that's part of what brought us together.

Good luck to you- braver than most of us.

mle

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Old 08-29-2002, 03:45 PM   #86
Janet5
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Thanks mle, it is difficult and yes I will be waiting awhile until I know him better. I have learned to be patient in this situation. One other thing, I don't see him as having any power over me as I am taking Aikido but I will not be testing. Aikido is not a high priority in my life, but I do enjoy it, and it doesn't fill some emptyness so much as other things in my life.
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Old 08-30-2002, 10:21 AM   #87
"UnReg"
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"Some horrid little part of the mind thinks it can get power by associating with it (you get cooties just as often) I call it "rent-a-belt disease" and I've seen it happen too many times."

Boy have I ever seen this!

fawning sycophants, yes-men, groupies, brown-nosers, gold-diggers, the "its-who-you-know" crowd, ad nauseum.

Problem is, sometimes you CAN get power by associating with it, and for some people, that's a better strategy than relying on, say, talent.

So endearing, and worse if the person in power is oblivious or enjoys it.
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Old 08-31-2002, 03:56 AM   #88
mike lee
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power trip

The proof is in the pudding.
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Old 09-20-2002, 11:36 PM   #89
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Having been there and then dropped for some one else who is also a student, I would advise extreme caution.
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Old 09-24-2002, 05:21 PM   #90
Janet5
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I have realized that as long as the situation is what both people want at a mature level, then to go for it. But it is very difficult to keep two people apart who want the same thing, on or off the mat.
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Old 09-24-2002, 05:23 PM   #91
rachmass
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Janet, does that mean.....?
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Old 09-24-2002, 05:38 PM   #92
"Anonnnnn"
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Not that it really matters, but does anyone else think that Janet is a made up person/situation?
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Old 09-24-2002, 05:50 PM   #93
rachmass
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interesting thought. could well be. I certainly never thought of that. Do you have reason to think so?
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Old 09-24-2002, 06:49 PM   #94
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Could be someone looking for "permission" to get involved with one of their students.
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Old 10-01-2002, 01:20 PM   #95
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With all the blending and heavy breathing on the mat, how can we not " love the Sensei ", at least a little. Especially three months into a new contact sport. I say, channel that energy into training for 2 years and get to know the man and Aikido better.
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Old 10-22-2004, 04:25 PM   #96
"Anonymous"
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Re: Falling in love with Sensei

Janet, if you are still here, can you fill us in on what happened in this relationship?
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Old 10-24-2004, 12:52 PM   #97
thomas_dixon
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Re: Falling in love with Sensei

How old are you and your sensei anyway?

BTW I very much doubt it's love, more like infatuation.
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Old 10-24-2004, 01:31 PM   #98
Hanna B
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Re: Falling in love with Sensei

This thread is more than two years old...

RIP
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Old 10-24-2004, 06:24 PM   #99
thomas_dixon
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Re: Falling in love with Sensei

Heh..i didn't notice. :x
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Old 10-30-2004, 06:33 PM   #100
Janet5
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Re: Falling in love with Sensei

Wow, I just came back for reminecing(sp?)purposes and I saw this thread with more replies recently! Anyways, to respond...yes it was a real situation and I am not a made up person. He is quite older than I am or was two years ago (25), but after two years this is what happend.
I gave the situation time, even though I felt I was in love with him. The feelings were mutual, but nothing could be done as I found out he had a partner that I hadn't meant. So what can you do right? I haven't been to the dojo in awhile and she started training there as well. I stuck around for a bit and all was good, I got over my feelings and moved on. It was more lust than love, but these terms seem to downplay the situation. I'm sure many other students have gone through something similar, so I hope this thread has helped to shed light on this subject.
I learned that no matter what the feelings are and if they are directed toward Sensei or another aikidoka, that the emotions are real and surprisingly enough, being on the mat can guide you to the answer. A cheesy cliche but we learn about ourselves through the dojo experience and sometimes patience is the best way to deal with something in order to get a better perspective. People can give advice, but in the end the decisions and choices are yours. Thankfully we have time to aid in life altering choices.
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