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Old 09-19-2002, 09:23 AM   #26
JohnDavis's Avatar
Dojo: None...None near me and I can't afford dues anyway.
Location: Bristol, VA
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 32
Re: clouding the clear mind

Mike Lee (mike lee) wrote:
From this thread:

Attacking misconceptions is the essence of debate.

Really? I was always taught that the "essence of debate" was expressing your point of view in the most persuasive manner possible. Debate in this country has unfortunately devolved into ad hominum attacks.

(Sounds like the "teacher" of Michael Neal has arrived. Why not just go all the way and call them "personal attacks?")

Ok, let's do that, for want of more civil discourse. Though I am curious just who Michael Neal is and why I would be his teacher?

From the "Is it real?" thread:

If you truly beleive that aikido is about "stopping" what you PERCEIVE to be attacks, then you're not really practicing aikido.

Ahhhh... So this is about Aikido "On The Street(TM)". Funny, I thought this was the Sprituality forum. Now just what is a "perception"? Is it not the only way that any one of us can view the universe? Also I wonder if the author of that quote has ever had to use "Real Aikido (TM)" of the physical kind "On The Street"? In 10 years of practice, I've never had to throw or restrain anyone off the mat. The verbal Aikido I used worked just fine.

In sales management training I was taught "the customer's perception is your reality". I feel this can be applied to life.

If you can not deal with what you PERCEIVE to be an "attack" in a virtual world, how could you even begin to deal with one in the real world?

And just how do you recomend I "deal" with what I "perceive" to be an "attack"? And again, is this not just as real as the "real world(TM)"?

P.S. Grow a thicker hide or pay me no heed. Who's angry?
I think my hide is thick enough. I was not addressing any personal attacks on me in my post, just bemoaning the fact that civil debate is a lost art even among the martial art of peacemakers. Or do you practice full contact attack aikido? Were the attacks on me, I would simply have not responded. As to who's anger?: Ok, I give... Who?


Happy Shugyo,

John B. Davis
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Old 09-19-2002, 10:18 AM   #27
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
"arogance" rules

As to the gist of the thread, I note more than a small amount of arogance and anger ...
You said this John. So who is full of "arogance" (sic), and who is angry?
For some reason, I feel like I've fallen into the Dragon's Den or the Serpant's layer.
So who's the dragon and who's the serpant?
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Old 09-20-2002, 07:53 AM   #28
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
Part of the problem with clearing the clouded mind is that the emotional turmoil, or sometimes Pavlov reaction is first to come to the surface, thereby letting the darkness take over. Take arrogence with a grain of salt, if you can both laugh at it then it is not arrogence but a double entendre', double meaning.

Arrogence is also a protective response when someone has been threatened by another person who would control his/her thoughts, but if you respond in kind it is usually a slap in the face not a neutralizing technique.

Yes, I have restrain people with simple twists and locks before and after starting Aikido, but indeed most events are handled with agile use of words rather than physical force.

So, although I see tempers flairing, and feathers bristling, maybe is time to step back and let each other be. Sometimes the clear mind see's it can do no more to enlighten or soothe its fellow human being in words, and deeds must take over. Since we are unable to affect deeds being in different locations, how about we let this one go in the spirit of finding the clear mind?

You only get mad if you care, because if you didn't ... you would say nothing at all.
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