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Old 09-24-2000, 12:21 PM   #1
Paul
Location: Edinburgh
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 46
Scotland
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I have a query about hasso no gaeshi (correct term I believe, let me know if I have it wrong). I am wondering if the initial spinning of the jo into position can be used to strike your partner, front or behind, as in one kata you perform hasso no gaeshi while doing an irimi tenkan seemingly ignoring the opponent that was in front of you moments before. I can only think that one uses the spinning of the jo to strike or keep your opponent away. Has anyone seen or indeed used hasso no gaeshi in this way?


Regards Paul

Regards Paul Finn
Edinburgh
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Old 09-24-2000, 12:38 PM   #2
George S. Ledyard
 
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Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,639
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Hasso Gaeshi

Quote:
Paul wrote:
I have a query about hasso no gaeshi (correct term I believe, let me know if I have it wrong). I am wondering if the initial spinning of the jo into position can be used to strike your partner, front or behind, as in one kata you perform hasso no gaeshi while doing an irimi tenkan seemingly ignoring the opponent that was in front of you moments before. I can only think that one uses the spinning of the jo to strike or keep your opponent away. Has anyone seen or indeed used hasso no gaeshi in this way?


Regards Paul
When we practiice the hasso gaeshi movement in our kumi jo forms it is executed as a deflection of an incoming tsuki to the face. But I was taught that there really are no blocking motions in Aikido so the explanation of the "deflection" was that we were really practicing a strike but for safety sake we didi it on the attacker's weapon.

Why would one ever do such a movement? Aside from the fact that it looks cool. It is my understanding that it is a strike to the head or the hands, doesn't matter. The assumption is that if the attacker evades your strike it my be quicker and more efficient to continue the energy into jodan hasso rqther than stop the energy and try to withdraw.

On a very sophisticated level it could be thought of as a strike, followed by the presentation of an opening to entice the attacker to enter, but the "opening" was really just a draw that was already becoming a strike. You really have to play with it in paired exercise to understand any of this. You can't really understand any of the movements unless you do them paired. If you watch people do weapon forms you can always tell who the people are who do a lot of paired work and those that just do solo forms.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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Old 09-24-2000, 12:40 PM   #3
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Hasso Gaeshi

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
Quote:
Paul wrote:
I have a query about hasso no gaeshi (correct term I believe, let me know if I have it wrong). I am wondering if the initial spinning of the jo into position can be used to strike your partner, front or behind, as in one kata you perform hasso no gaeshi while doing an irimi tenkan seemingly ignoring the opponent that was in front of you moments before. I can only think that one uses the spinning of the jo to strike or keep your opponent away. Has anyone seen or indeed used hasso no gaeshi in this way?


Regards Paul
When we practiice the hasso gaeshi movement in our kumi jo forms it is executed as a deflection of an incoming tsuki to the face. But I was taught that there really are no blocking motions in Aikido so the explanation of the "deflection" was that we were really practicing a strike but for safety sake we didi it on the attacker's weapon.

Why would one ever do such a movement? Aside from the fact that it looks cool. It is my understanding that it is a strike to the head or the hands, doesn't matter. The assumption is that if the attacker evades your strike it my be quicker and more efficient to continue the energy into jodan hasso rather than stop the energy and try to withdraw.

On a very sophisticated level it could be thought of as a strike, followed by the presentation of an opening to entice the attacker to enter, but the "opening" was really just a draw that was already becoming a strike. You really have to play with it in paired exercise to understand any of this. You can't really understand any of the movements unless you do them paired. If you watch people do weapon forms you can always tell who the people are who do a lot of paired work and those that just do solo forms.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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Old 09-24-2000, 04:53 PM   #4
Tony Peters
Dojo: Mt Tantalus, Kaimuki Judo club
Location: Honolulu hawaii
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 67
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Talking

What George said about deflection jives with what I got from the Iwama people that I've trained with though their hasso is a real room clearing motion. the advantage of Hasso No Gaishi it that it leaves you in Hasso with is a very good offencive position to strike men with little preperation. As for pairs vs solos work I whole heartedly agree. Having another person there eliminates the ability to "fake" it even if you are serious in your solo work you don't "know" that it will work until you find out it doesn't always. besides it's tough to maintain good posture solo paired you have to just to see ou partner.

Peace
Tony
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