Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-05-2000, 04:28 PM   #1
Tim Haffner
Dojo: Aikido School of Miami Beach
Location: FL
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 9
Offline
I'd appreciate your advice from a Law Enforcement perspective. Most LE officers find the Sankyo-Kote Hineri technique useful for applying handcuffs to a standing subject. Even if they have to use brute force, it is effective in applying mechanical leverage and pain compliance to a resisting subject, and get the hands to the small of the back.
My question is in the application to a resisting and tensed subject the has closed his hands into tight fists. I know that most aikidoka would advise to flow into another technique and attempt kuzushi, and take the balance. I agree!
However, experienced Corrections Officers,and LEO's will relate to how a subject can barricade himself against a wall, vehicle, the ground, etc., and clench his fists up to his chest.
So again, I look for suggestions for applying Sankyo to the closed fist of a resistant subject.
Thanks in advance!

Tim Haffner
meadatim@gate.net
"All energy flows at the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy Him." Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2000, 08:52 PM   #2
chillzATL
Location: ATL
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 846
United_States
Offline
I've had a very similar problem in the dojo in the past with other newer aikidoka who wanted to tighten up their fist as a natural reaction to the technique. If the person can draw their arm in and still has control of the arm, you simply should not try to use sankyo because you are fighting muscle iwth muscle and you could lose, depending on your strength and theirs. if you have control of the arm. it's away from their body and you have their leverage, only their fist is clinched. well, you shouldn't really have to do anything out of the ordinary. You just don't have a set of fingers down there to grasp. your upper hand grasps the top of their hand and your lower hand just gets what it can of the hand. The most important thing is having control of the arm, not the fist. From the situation you are describing, you've already got the assailants arm behind them and are just trying to get better control of them? correct? This really isn't a good situation where you can apply a traditional sankyo, as you don't have any leverage, you are just muscling them. You could try just pulling their arm straight out away from their back as you torque the wrist in and start to stand them more upright by it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2000, 01:02 PM   #3
Russ
Dojo: Pacific Aikido Kensankai
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 32
Offline
During a seminar with Suganuma Sensei he had uke maintain a tightly closed fist while demonstrating sankyo. It seemed like he put the palm of his free hand on ukes thumb and applied pressure. Uke moved pretty fast at that point.

When doing it myself I find this is immediately effective with folks of equal or lesser strength and sporadically effective with those who are physically stronger.

We don't practise this way alot, however, I could see it becoming quite effective regardless of ukes size when studied more often.

Good luck.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2000, 10:56 AM   #4
Tim Haffner
Dojo: Aikido School of Miami Beach
Location: FL
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 9
Offline
Palm against the thumb and apply pressure?

Thanks for the replies.

Russ,
I was hoping that you could clarify Suganuma Sensei's method. I've seen people attempt to put the blade of their hand into the closed fingers and peel them downward. I guess the thumb would be included in that. Perhaps you mean bending the thumb into itself to cause pain. Please let me know.

Tim Haffner
meadatim@gate.net
"All energy flows at the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy Him." Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2000, 11:25 AM   #5
Russ
Dojo: Pacific Aikido Kensankai
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 32
Offline
Hi Tim,

To clarify, place your free palm on uke's thumb and apply the same extension you would for a regular sankyo. Extending energy and turning your hips toward uke. If you're particularly strong try "crushing" the thumb into uke's clenched fingers. Your idea of bending the thumb into itself to cause pain is pretty close to the idea. Debatable as to whether it's "aiki" but whatever works. I apologize if my exlpanation lacks..., it's one of those "gotta do it to figure it out" things. Good luck!
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Mugendo Budogu - Dogi cut to specifically to wear with hakama!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
sankyo John Matsushima Techniques 26 04-14-2007 08:49 AM
Little Help Here...Sankyo kroh Techniques 3 01-18-2006 02:34 PM
traditional yokomenuchi sankyo rob_liberti Techniques 11 12-13-2004 10:18 AM
One class in the life of...(Photographed Edition) Veers General 14 07-16-2003 10:25 AM
turning the fist ? Hagen Seibert Techniques 10 05-15-2001 12:28 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:02 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate