Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-23-2014, 04:26 PM   #1
Peter Boylan
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 140
United_States
Offline
Is your training effective or just killing time?

I was practicing some etudes for piano, when it occurred to me how similar many of the problems with practicing are for both musicians and martial artists. It's very easy to waste practice time with poor practice habits and training. Worse, we can even push ourselves backwards by training in the wrong way. It all ended up in this blog post:

http://budobum.blogspot.com/2014/07/...l-are-not.html

What do you think? Is the way you train effective for learning Aikido, or are you just killing time in the dojo without getting any better?

Peter Boylan
Mugendo Budogu LLC
Budo Books, Videos, Equipment from Japan
http://www.budogu.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 10:29 AM   #2
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,933
Offline
Re: Is your training effective or just killing time?

I almost always have a longer-term goal in my training AND something I hope to work on during a given class - never a technique, but a skill, be it movement, breathing, timing or structure.
I find that even if my thought about how a class might go are changed by a different instructor being there that night or being asked to team with a newbie or me having a headache or whatever, if my short term goal is skill-based I can work on it in some way regardless of what the outward form of the class is.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 06:10 AM   #3
Mario Tobias
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 252
Philippines
Offline
Re: Is your training effective or just killing time?

I think if anybody wants to excel, there needs to be balance between training hard and training smart. Some put more weight on training the physical aspects while some on the analytical aspects of the art. This is evident in how East vs the West train. There are pros and cons to each approach I think if you put more weight over the other. I think you will limit yourself if you put more emphasis of one over the other so there needs to be balance.

As beginners, focus should be training hard physically. As one progresses, the analytical aspects to understand the art deeper should balance the physical aspect if one is to be a good technician. This is regardless how one interprets the art. Validity of techniques and principles can only be validated though experimentation which means one has a theory about a technique or principle which then is tested in the dojo through trial and error which is either debunked or refined. The dojo is one big laboratory and the art is the experiment.

As the adage says: the definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

One's proficiency can be gauged if one can do techniques both slowly and intensely and is successful in both instances. People who train intensely but cannot do the techniques slowly don't undertand the technique IMHO. This is similar to Katai training. It is easier for Aikidoka to do ki no nagare practice for those who have a good basis at katai training. It doesn't work the other way around.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 08:07 AM   #4
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,141
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your training effective or just killing time?

Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
I was practicing some etudes for piano, when it occurred to me how similar many of the problems with practicing are for both musicians and martial artists. It's very easy to waste practice time with poor practice habits and training. Worse, we can even push ourselves backwards by training in the wrong way. It all ended up in this blog post:

http://budobum.blogspot.com/2014/07/...l-are-not.html

What do you think? Is the way you train effective for learning Aikido, or are you just killing time in the dojo without getting any better?
Dear Peter,
Read the full article .At last an article which is full of common sense.Thanks a million for posting this.Should be mandatory reading for everyone. Wish there were more articles like yours on this forum.Cheers, Joe.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 03:56 PM   #5
Adam Huss
 
Adam Huss's Avatar
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 637
United_States
Offline
Re: Is your training effective or just killing time?

I may not be in the best state of mind to comment coherently (much mead) so please bear with...

I had a good conversation with a very trusted and respected friend today. He was asking about my marital arts training - which he knows a bit about - and comparing it to the philosophies found in the book Fight Club, most notably eliminating unnecessary burdens to one's life. I described to him the similarity between that and our kenshu, or sword sharpening, course. The idea being the utilization of arduous (shugyo) physical training as a means to 'sharpen,' or remove the rust, burs, and imperfections of one's life. I've always felt this a more practical application of training than simply learning complex technical aspects. Now, anyone that knows me knows I place emphasis on technical soundness...but that is a means to an end for my training. Its the fact of making oneself learn proficient movement, the difficulty of it, that I find beneficial to other aspects of life. Similarly, that same 'kenshu' course ensures its students (who are committed without except to attend all classes), conduct off the mat homework that seeks to push them out of their comfort zone. Such activities as public speaking, not talking for a couple days, practicing kiai for a week, doing things one is afraid of, etc.... If the budo can do anything practical, particularly gendai budo, this would be it. Much more so than "can an aikido do MMA?!?!" or "can a judoka beat a BJJ person in the octagon or street?!?!" Boy, these things just don't resonate with me. My job is literally to provide security for businesses as they travel through very dangerous locations (JoBerg, Mexico City, Beirut, etc) and I have found no serious need for fighting skills. In my short 32 years I've been in three major physical altercations; attacked at a party by a drunkard without cause (did sudori/suwari komi to him), attacked at school by a bully (irimi tsuki, and gedan barai), and a Taliban commander tried to pull a knife off my chest rig (handled with nikkyo and standing jujigatme). Thats like once eery ten years, for a person who puts himself in harms way on a semi-regular basis. Not very time-value proficient. I get way more benefit out of learning to train with a variety of personality types, pushing myself well beyond comfort zones, and using proper etiquette to increase my awareness of those around me. But that is my training focus, not sure if its shared much by others or even all that wise.

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 04:05 PM   #6
Adam Huss
 
Adam Huss's Avatar
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 637
United_States
Offline
Re: Is your training effective or just killing time?

To comment more specific to the original post;
I run into some problems with my preponderancy toward proper technique. I care little about my own rank or status - anyone that trains with me knows I line up with the rest of class even when I'm leading it. I just want to train, train properly, and get quality reps in. Where I run into conflict is proper training. I honestly feel like its a disservice if my training partner is doing something ineffectively and I don't say anything. I feel like I am cheating them by not saying anything. But I run into egos that take offense to this. I want nothing more than to just train, train, train, but I maintain the feelings above. I know I've rubbed some the wrong way with it, but I feel I am doing a disservice by letting my training partners train ineffectively. I temper that with positive attitude and a collaborative approach, but I fear it still bothers others. Its always been a balancing act I've strived to perfect.

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 05:14 PM   #7
reza.n
Dojo: Ali Dojo
Location: Tehran
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 9
Iran
Offline
Re: Is your training effective or just killing time?

I divide training into three groups:
basics (ikkyo undo (zengo, shiho, happo [suwaru & tatsu]), taisabaki & sabaki kata)
techniques
Ken & Jo

The basics may look simple and easy, but I believe after few years of practicing aikido I should take a session or two in a month to do them again and again (50 to 100 times each). Most friends in dojo hate it but I know still it's not enough!
And for the techniques, I know my uke & I should perform a techniques for few times from Hidari Hanmi and then Migi Hanmi respectively, and I escape some of it and now I can't perform some techniques with my left hand properly and it's not good at all.
I escape the individual ken and jo in dojo and I rather practice them at home, Ken no awase, Jo no awase, kumitachi and tachidori are for dojo. of course I believe in ken and jo basics like tai sabaki and etc. so I force myself to do at least 150 to 300 kirikaeshi (suwaru, tatsu & shikkodachi) each week.

I believe the more is better and of course every time it's possible must double check every small and trivial things with sensei.

I don't always practice aikido
but when I do, I really do
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 02:29 AM   #8
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,141
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your training effective or just killing time?

Quote:
Adam Huss wrote: View Post
I may not be in the best state of mind to comment coherently (much mead) so please bear with...

I had a good conversation with a very trusted and respected friend today. He was asking about my marital arts training - which he knows a bit about - and comparing it to the philosophies found in the book Fight Club, most notably eliminating unnecessary burdens to one's life. I described to him the similarity between that and our kenshu, or sword sharpening, course. The idea being the utilization of arduous (shugyo) physical training as a means to 'sharpen,' or remove the rust, burs, and imperfections of one's life. I've always felt this a more practical application of training than simply learning complex technical aspects. Now, anyone that knows me knows I place emphasis on technical soundness...but that is a means to an end for my training. Its the fact of making oneself learn proficient movement, the difficulty of it, that I find beneficial to other aspects of life. Similarly, that same 'kenshu' course ensures its students (who are committed without except to attend all classes), conduct off the mat homework that seeks to push them out of their comfort zone. Such activities as public speaking, not talking for a couple days, practicing kiai for a week, doing things one is afraid of, etc.... If the budo can do anything practical, particularly gendai budo, this would be it. Much more so than "can an aikido do MMA?!?!" or "can a judoka beat a BJJ person in the octagon or street?!?!" Boy, these things just don't resonate with me. My job is literally to provide security for businesses as they travel through very dangerous locations (JoBerg, Mexico City, Beirut, etc) and I have found no serious need for fighting skills. In my short 32 years I've been in three major physical altercations; attacked at a party by a drunkard without cause (did sudori/suwari komi to him), attacked at school by a bully (irimi tsuki, and gedan barai), and a Taliban commander tried to pull a knife off my chest rig (handled with nikkyo and standing jujigatme). Thats like once eery ten years, for a person who puts himself in harms way on a semi-regular basis. Not very time-value proficient. I get way more benefit out of learning to train with a variety of personality types, pushing myself well beyond comfort zones, and using proper etiquette to increase my awareness of those around me. But that is my training focus, not sure if its shared much by others or even all that wise.
Dear Adam,
I bet your pal was all ears when you started having chit chat on your MARITAL arts. I guess this conversation was more interesting than sitting about blethering about aikido etc.Cheers, Joe.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 07:23 PM   #9
Adam Huss
 
Adam Huss's Avatar
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 637
United_States
Offline
Re: Is your training effective or just killing time?

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Adam,
I bet your pal was all ears when you started having chit chat on your MARITAL arts. I guess this conversation was more interesting than sitting about blethering about aikido etc.Cheers, Joe.
Its really awesome to have an hour long conversation about aikido, or budo in general, with friends outside the martial arts community. The fact they take an active interest in these subjects, whether it be attending testings, joining us in after-seminar parties, or visiting me while I was uchideshi is a testament to the guys I'm lucky enough to call my friends!

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 02:55 AM   #10
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,141
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your training effective or just killing time?

Quote:
Adam Huss wrote: View Post
Its really awesome to have an hour long conversation about aikido, or budo in general, with friends outside the martial arts community. The fact they take an active interest in these subjects, whether it be attending testings, joining us in after-seminar parties, or visiting me while I was uchideshi is a testament to the guys I'm lucky enough to call my friends!
Dear Adam,
Your lucky to have non aikido supportive friends such as you describe.cheers, Joe.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Consideration of Aikido Practice within the Context of Internal Training Ellis Amdur Columns 71 03-21-2013 08:15 PM
Why do you perceive "internal" superior to athleticism? ChrisHein Training 459 02-09-2012 12:59 PM
What Is Your Responsibility in Training? George S. Ledyard External Aikido Blog Posts 43 01-13-2011 09:02 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 8 Peter Goldsbury Columns 60 11-24-2009 04:03 PM
"Off-The-Mat" Forum akiy "Off-The-Mat" 6 06-02-2008 12:22 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:13 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate