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Old 05-22-2016, 04:16 AM   #1
dapidmini
Dojo: Surabaya Aikido Dojo
Location: surabaya
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Indonesia
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ryo-munadori ikkyo?

recently one of the students asked me how to do munadori ikkyo-gokyo. since I'm the sole instructor because the other instructor had to move permanently to another province in another island and my Sensei(s) also live far away, now I don't have anyone to ask other than the almighty internet.

which had me thinking: all this time I've only saw people doing one-handed munadori ikkyo-gokyo, does ryo-munadori ikkyo even exists? because I can't imagine how it'd work and google also couldn't help me..

so I'm putting my last hope on aikiweb forums... does anyone know about ryo-munadori ikkyo-gokyo? is it even possible/exists?
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Old 05-22-2016, 05:06 AM   #2
robin_jet_alt
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Australia
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Re: ryo-munadori ikkyo?

Like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq4lKCuhMC0

Note that this isn't necessarily how I do it, but yes, it can be done.
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Old 05-22-2016, 07:12 AM   #3
MrIggy
Dojo: Aikido Klub Tisa - Novi Sad
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Re: ryo-munadori ikkyo?

Stylish but you get the idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJfGq96boPM
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Old 05-22-2016, 08:30 AM   #4
rugwithlegs
Dojo: Open Sky Aikikai
Location: Durham, NC
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Re: ryo-munadori ikkyo?

I've had fun researching several of the questions in your one. Hopefully I'll get corrected if I am wrong on any of this.

Daito Ryu does have an Ikkajo but it is a kata of 30ish very different techniques containing things like Kotegaeshi, Shihonage and many others. Ikkajo to Gokajo are all catalogues of techniques. There are more than five kata, but only five named by number.

Ikkajo and Ikkyo as a singular technique might be an idea that first appeared in the 1950s. Older systems like Tomiki Aikido don't use Ikkyo to Gokyo by name. Omote and Ura as we use them seems to be an even more recent idea. Some names don't work perfectly for all circumstances. The Daito Ryu Gokajo is weapons disarms exclusively to my understanding.

There is definitely a higikime/rokkyo available, just ignore one grip and attack one arm. Difference between Nikyo and Ikkyo for this will be vague, as the Nikyo hand grip will be the easiest to start with but I still see it called Ikkyo...

With Ki-no-nagare, the difference between mune dori and mune tsuki (and a dozen other things) is negligible. Move before the grab, do what you do. Like Uke is grabbing for a breast, radio, or ID badge.

In solid practice, kata dori controls the direction Nage can face, mune dori controls the distance my center can be from the attacker. I was also taught while grabbing mune dori I can try to break the sternum, so always better to be moving. Today, I think ryo mune dori is more common for men attacking women.

I can bring my hands up to the outside with mune dori, with kata Dori I have an easier time bringing my hands up the middle. Atemi to the ribs or elbows, or if they've bent their arms a lot, to the ears. Should be able to kick or bring a knee up.

Basic kuzushi is like a tenchinage, lift Uke's one arm up and pull one arm down but Uke's grip on the low hand fails and finish with the high hand. Or, just lay the one arm over top of both of Uke's while taking the wrist to start the lock - you've got a free hand for Atemi and controlled both of Uke's. If uke sucks his elbows down, take his head.

Ryo munedori usually changes IMO to munedori menuchi (use the striking hand as always for whatever, nice jujigarami, then do Ikkyo when he lets go), entering for a throw (use Maai) or to jujishime style chokes. The choke is handled the same, but the hand on top if pulled down increases the choke; pushing the bottom hand up increases the choke. Lift the top hand and pull the bottom hand down and the pressure on your neck is released. I've done this from being pinned on the floor or against a wall with good results. These work great when held in a confined space. Budo Renshu had a few interesting techniques.

Long winded, but have some fun. With time, you'll find your own stuff too.

Last edited by rugwithlegs : 05-22-2016 at 08:34 AM. Reason: Clarity
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Old 05-22-2016, 12:11 PM   #5
JP3
 
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Re: ryo-munadori ikkyo?

Rug, that's a very good description of the variations available, nice!

I find it interesting that the kanji character for kuzushi illustrates a mountain falling on a house.
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Old 05-22-2016, 04:41 PM   #6
Cliff Judge
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
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Re: ryo-munadori ikkyo?

Quote:
John Hillson wrote: View Post
Daito Ryu does have an Ikkajo but it is a kata of 30ish very different techniques containing things like Kotegaeshi, Shihonage and many others. Ikkajo to Gokajo are all catalogues of techniques. There are more than five kata, but only five named by number.
The only thing that is really similar between DR -kajo series and Aikido -kyo techniques are that they are things that are counted 1-5. There are things that look like the Aikido techniques present in Hiden Mokuroku (at least as organized by Tokimune Takeda) but there some that aren't there at all - for example, the typical nikkyo on the shoulder is not present in DR. And where they are present, they are sprinkled around more than one series.
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Old 05-22-2016, 08:54 PM   #7
rugwithlegs
Dojo: Open Sky Aikikai
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Re: ryo-munadori ikkyo?

Thanks Cliff. That was my understanding too. Some students hear about 1-5 and think it is part of a long standing history or that it applies to everything, I found it enlightening to learn that isn't the case.
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Old 05-27-2016, 01:54 AM   #8
dapidmini
Dojo: Surabaya Aikido Dojo
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Re: ryo-munadori ikkyo?

thank you all for the replies. although the video Robin pointed out is a ryokatatori, which is close to munetori, I personally prefer the method used in that video because the method in MrIggy's video seems more "staged". I'm doubtful that a person of roughly the same size can do that from that position without tearing some clothes, especially if the uke is holding and resisting with full power..

those videos gave me some ideas though. thanks again
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:27 PM   #9
turbonis
Dojo: Cagayan Aikido Dojo
Location: Cagayan de Oro City
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Re: ryo-munadori ikkyo?

btw, you cant remove that grab that easily if he/she holds it very tight.

if it can be removed through hip twisting then good, if not, you can do mini nikko to remove the grab before applying ikko
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Old 09-05-2016, 02:05 AM   #10
Ethan Weisgard
Dojo: Copenhagen Aiki Shuren Dojo
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Re: ryo-munadori ikkyo?

This is not at all any help in the technical part of this question, but I can't contain myself ;-)
In Japanese the term "Ryo Munadori" sounds funny. It can mean "both breast grab" :-)
It sounds like something that happens to poor OL (office ladies) on the morning rush hour trains in Tokyo and other large cities.
I think one might stear clear of that imagery by calling it Ryote Munadori or Ryotemochi Munadori.
The kicker is the "Ryomuna"

I breast my case...
(somebody stop me!)

In aiki,
Ethan
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