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Old 05-09-2014, 02:21 AM   #51
Alex Megann
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
Hmm. Not wanting to start a new thread but I think you could kill people with aiki and that you could also use aiki with maximum force - if you wanted to. Your idea of aiki seems more philosophical. I look at the practical.

For me, aiki has nothing to do with philosophy anymore than say shiho-nage is philosophical. Aiki is a skill - the skill we should be aiming to get. The skill to be able to manipulate your uke with minimum force to maximum effect. The skill to be able to use his own energy against him. Good wrestlers use it, Sumo use it etc. - but they don`t name it so if they are good at it they won`t quite know just what that `it` is or how to get more of it. We name it - aiki - and so we should be aiming to develop it ... should we not? Can`t see any philospohy in there. Except, if you attain it, don`t use it for bad purposes. Which means, the philosophy comes later - if / after you attain it. Certainly not before.
Having received a "no-inch punch" from someone who explicitly teaches "aiki", I agree with Rupert that these skills can be incredibly powerful - even though the talk is constantly of softness and not muscling. On that occasion I felt as if I had been hit by a train, and the teacher concerned was obviously holding back (a lot).

Alex
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Old 05-09-2014, 03:44 AM   #52
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Reuben Yap wrote: View Post
Ahh...well my thought of Aikido is what separates Aikido from martial arts is its non destructive philosophy ...
When I am talking about "keeping aikidō 'pure' " I don't refer to a certain philosophy. But to a certain form of body work. (Which I think by now is rooted deeply in daoist forms of cultivating one's body ... but that's another story ...) This way of using one's body and mind can only be learned using certain methods. Which have to be kept "pure" for that reason.
aiki as a technical method can be found in other budō and - what's more interesting, I think - in Chinese internal arts. There are even budō that explicetly use the term aiki like the KSR.
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:02 AM   #53
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

Quote:
Reuben Yap wrote: View Post
...
Ahh...well my thought of Aikido is what separates Aikido from martial arts is its non destructive philosophy rather than just its form. The form that we know is an expression of that intent and philosophy in the techniques as O-Sensei interpreted them. I guess here you're separating the concept of Aiki to a more general term that is applicable to other martial arts as well thought when i meant Aiki I meant it as it is expressed in Aikido.

Any sort of grappling ar then uses 'Aiki' and I don't think just because they lack that terminology it means they can't develop it. In fact I believe at all higher levels of training in grappling arts at least I know it with wrestling and jujitsu, we are taught that we to strive to use minimum effort to achieve maximum effect through a combination of leverage, timing, direction of uke's attention, going with the flow and using physics to help achieve this. In fact, I think many Aikidoka despite training in Aikido like to attribute all these elements to 'ki' which really doesn't help in understanding what it is.

A bit off topic so let's get back on track
I would turn this paragraph on its head. "Aiki" as practiced by the founder was in other arts. Research strongly indicates Daito Ryu and Takeda being the largest influence on the founder's learning. "Aikido" made a decision to align with a philosophy that was appealing to disseminate aikido, not to teach aiki. Eventually, if you saddle aiki to a philosophy you are going to run into some conflicts and limitations of what it can do.

To your point, it is not difficult to mistake athleticism with aiki unless you look for it. My physical ability to use a combination of strength and mechanics to gain power is not the same as the ability to use aiki. This is inherently the external v. internal argument. We do external conditioning skills all the time: running, working out, stretching, etc. Aiki is internal conditioning. Back to the issue of purity... one could argue that relates to relieving aikido of its dependence on external bodywork and returning to internal body work. As you as demonstrated, aikido people practicing quasi-jujutsu is not going to produce good aikido.

I keep getting the feeling you are defining aiki in such a way as that it will not meet your expectation. You can either resolve that limit or redefine what is aiki for you. I went with the redefine path and understand that not everyone is doing what I am doing. I happen to believe what I am doing will improve my application of aiki in whatever form I want to express it.

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Old 05-09-2014, 08:14 AM   #54
Cliff Judge
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

Oh, just go see Dan Harden already.
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:29 AM   #55
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Reuben Yap wrote: View Post
Let's not get into a discussion of what is pure, my point is that the point of 'purity' is subjective.

Hence given that there's so many different interpretations of Aikido, there is no point in talking what is 'pure' but as other posters have said, it is more about maintaining Aiki.
I agree, we all have different experiences of aikido and ideas of what it is, or should be.

That doesn't necessarily derail your discussion point. Let's just say for the sake of argument that someone does Yoshinkan aikido and regards Gozo Shioda as the purest paragon of aikido, surpassing even the founder by refining what he was given into the finest, clearest mineral-water-aiki along with the best quality delivery system to contain it.

Or it could be a student of Saito Shihan, Doshu etc. thinking the same thing.

That person can ask themselves if they should bother keeping their aikido pure.

I'd say keep refining it, keep the beginner's mind, keep examining it from within the art as well as from outside... and pollute it and experiment with it. But in the bottle labelled "aikido" I would try to keep the best example of aikido. In the bottles for experiments, I would mark them as such and be more careful about ingraining them. Things like the attacks argument start early on from what I've seen. How many people expect to get mugged by someone doing shomen-uchi in hanmi? Why do it? Why change it? How about doing hooks and keeping aiki with push-hands? Does that happen on the streets? You'll at least be ready for that aggressive mime and his invisible pane of glass.

Just a few thoughts in the night...

Carl
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:41 AM   #56
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Reuben Yap wrote: View Post
Fair enough but there isn't THAT much variation to a standard loose hook (executed properly of course). As there is not that much variation to a standard yokomenuchi attack or shomen uchi attack.
I think if you posted a thread asking "how do I deal with a blade strike to the side of the head?" you would discover an enormous amount of variation, and the thread might very well end up looking like the one on dealing with hooks.

Which is why I don't usually pay much attention to those threads. My preferred answer is always "let's get on the mat and see what happens."

Quote:
Ahh...well my thought of Aikido is what separates Aikido from martial arts is its non destructive philosophy rather than just its form. The form that we know is an expression of that intent and philosophy in the techniques as O-Sensei interpreted them. I guess here you're separating the concept of Aiki to a more general term that is applicable to other martial arts as well thought when i meant Aiki I meant it as it is expressed in Aikido.
I think that's a fundamental disagreement, and probably not relevant to the discussion. OTOH, I think your quest to make aikido "relevant" might be more successful if you had a larger toolbox of skills at your disposal, including the body skills that fall under the heading of "aiki."

Katherine
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:46 AM   #57
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Reuben Yap wrote: View Post
Now I'm told that Aiki is something intangible and cannot be explained...though personally (and I may be wrong) Aiki is about

a) Not harming your opponent and loving them; and
b) Not using force but not just submitting to threats

If a technique can meet these requirements then I would say, why isn't it Aikido?
Do you believe that either A or B are or -- or have ever been -- exclusive to aikido? I don't. And since they are not exclusive to aikido, they cannot differentiate aikido from other martial arts and therefore do not produce a useful definition of aikido by themselves.

Aikido is a specific martial arts tradition, technically rooted in Takeda's Daito ryu and transmitted through Morihei Ueshiba. If we decide to ignore this and instead call anything aikido that fits a couple of vague philosophical principles, aikido as we know it will cease to exist.

For my part, I happen to like aikdo as we know it; that's why I train it.

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Old 05-09-2014, 12:15 PM   #58
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Don't get me wrong. I'm not proposing we tack on other martial art techniques to Aikido but why isn't there
a) A standard training method for dealing with modern attacks
I don't know for sure, though I do have some suspicions about why such a thing hasn't been developed. Regardless, I have gone ahead and on my own worked out a basic set of techniques, adapted from the classical syllabus of Aikido technique, that deal with more modern attacks (straights, hooks, crosses, chest shoves, etc). If I had not, I think I would have abandoned Aikido training by now. THe longer I train in classical Aikido, the more I see that my martial goals are not well answered by it.

Quote:
b) A training mechanism for true free randori whereby an attacker will come at you with whatever attack he feels like rather than be limited by the standard Aikido attacks. Why isn't there more demos of this?
Well, because few Aikidoka are doing this sort of training. I agree with you that such training should be more commonplace among Aikido dojos but this kind of training is...uncomfortable, or more martially honest, than what many Aikidoka prefer. There is no hiding behind rank in this kind of training, which is off-putting to more senior practitioners who are typically the ones deciding what sort of training will go on in Aikido dojos.

Quote:
Now sure, some dojos may practice this but I don't see it much either in the dojos I go to (and I have been to many dojos in Malaysia, UK and Hombu) and if so, why isn't this more publicized. Why aren't there more discussions on this sort of practice? The way I see it being taught is instructor teaches, students do and perhaps a controlled randori session. I feel that without the above elements, there's a great danger that Aikido will become nothing more than just a elaborate dance or exercise.
And this danger has, unfortunately, been realized in many dojos.

Quote:
Also why I mention other martial arts is that there are other techniques that come naturally from Aikido positions and I wonder why there isn't any discussion on incorporating these as alternatives which according to an individual, may be more efficient/effective?
Of course, in a fight, do whatever works to neutralize your attacker. But in the practice of Aikido there are some maneuvers that are clearly not part of the classical syllabus of technique and when you incorporate them into the Aikido repertoire of technique, you start to "blur the outline" of Aikido. Importing techniques from Judo, or Chin Na, or whatever into Aikido may make it more immediately martially effective but I think the identity of Aikido, its distinguishing characteristics as a particular martial art, will likely dissolve. I much prefer to work with what I've got in Aikido and adapt it rather than start borrowing heavily from other martial arts.

Jon.

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Old 05-09-2014, 12:31 PM   #59
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Reuben Yap wrote: View Post
My biggest beef is that why isn't there any movement for the big guys in Aikido to agree on some techniques that would work against modern attacks? Lesser people like us are left to experiment and trawl Youtube and there's so much crap out there that it's not always easy to sift out.
lots of beef and not enough vegetables. don't know your aikido practice, so i was wondering, how much does your aikido practice emphasis on irimi and atemi?

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:40 AM   #60
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

Techniques and philosophies are two different things.

dps
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Old 05-10-2014, 02:44 PM   #61
James Sawers
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

Per the above discussion, I came across this quote of Saito Sensei recently in an article by Chris Li. Based on my understanding of this, it appears that O'Sensei thought that Aikido was still evolving and even that, based on the situation, new techniques can appear spontaneously. So, "pure evolution"??

“In Iwama, O-Sensei explored Aikido by worshipping the Budo Guardian Spirits and praying every morning and evening. And so Takemusu Aikido was created. He said the former aikido was not the “true” aikido. It may not be incorrect aikido, but this is what O-Sensei said. In Takemusu Aikido, bit by bit, new techniques appear spontaneously. This never stops, it is infinite like a spring. This is Takemusu.”
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Old 05-10-2014, 04:42 PM   #62
kewms
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Jonathan Hay wrote: View Post
But in the practice of Aikido there are some maneuvers that are clearly not part of the classical syllabus of technique and when you incorporate them into the Aikido repertoire of technique, you start to "blur the outline" of Aikido.
Probably, but I think it would be pretty hard to develop a universal agreement about what those "non-aikido" maneuvers are. Certainly I've seen some very senior teachers uncork stuff that you'll never see on a kyu test or in a written syllabus. I've also seen plenty of variations that resemble kihon waza but have a decidedly more assertive flavor.

When senior instructors talk about technique "arising spontaneously" to meet the needs of the moment, I don't think they're referring to letter-perfect, put the pictures in your next book, kihon-style shihonage, either. Real situations are messy; real technique won't necessarily look like something you would want to see or demonstrate on a test. But I think considering how aikido's underlying principles apply in "non-standard" situations is likely to be more productive than simply abandoning aikido in favor of a "more applicable" technique from some other art.

Katherine
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Old 05-10-2014, 05:02 PM   #63
Jonathan
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Probably, but I think it would be pretty hard to develop a universal agreement about what those "non-aikido" maneuvers are.
Perhaps, then, in deciding what techniques properly constitute Aikido it would be easier to work from techniques that are universally (or near-universally) agreed upon as distinctive to Aikido: shihonage, iriminage, kotegaeshi, ikkyo, nikyo, sankyo, kaitenage, etc. Rather than defining what isn't Aikido, it might be better to define what is.

Quote:
When senior instructors talk about technique "arising spontaneously" to meet the needs of the moment, I don't think they're referring to letter-perfect, put the pictures in your next book, kihon-style shihonage, either. Real situations are messy; real technique won't necessarily look like something you would want to see or demonstrate on a test. But I think considering how aikido's underlying principles apply in "non-standard" situations is likely to be more productive than simply abandoning aikido in favor of a "more applicable" technique from some other art.
Sure. I've been studying this very thing for the last half-dozen years or so. I'm too heavily invested (25 years in now) in Aikido to simply abandon it in favor of something less archaic in its forms or more immediately martially effective. So, I've been "updating" things and the results are quite satisfying to me.

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Old 05-10-2014, 06:30 PM   #64
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
lots of beef and not enough vegetables. don't know your aikido practice, so i was wondering, how much does your aikido practice emphasis on irimi and atemi?
I reckon, get out the way and good night Irene.

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Old 05-10-2014, 06:46 PM   #65
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Richard Campbell wrote: View Post
I reckon, get out the way and good night Irene.
Retraction "Irene" is being used as a figure of speech and in no way refers to any person with that name...Phew

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Old 05-10-2014, 06:50 PM   #66
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Jonathan Hay wrote: View Post
Perhaps, then, in deciding what techniques properly constitute Aikido it would be easier to work from techniques that are universally (or near-universally) agreed upon as distinctive to Aikido: shihonage, iriminage, kotegaeshi, ikkyo, nikyo, sankyo, kaitenage, etc. Rather than defining what isn't Aikido, it might be better to define what is.

Sure. I've been studying this very thing for the last half-dozen years or so. I'm too heavily invested (25 years in now) in Aikido to simply abandon it in favor of something less archaic in its forms or more immediately martially effective. So, I've been "updating" things and the results are quite satisfying to me.
Hello Jonathan,

I have discussed this matter occasionally with the present Doshu, the main issue being what kind of things should be included in a demonstration of aikido at general sporting events. Doshu is always very concerned that what is demonstrated at such events is 'pure' aikido, but there is no accepted definition of 'pure' other than what was taught by the founder of the art. Who, when asked in an interview how many aikido waza there were, gave a huge figure. When this discussion is conducted in Japanese, the term kihon is inevitably used and Doshu always relies on the ambiguity that lies in this term. 'Basic' also captures the ambiguity: what is fundamental and what is usually studied first.

In this connection, I once participated in a demonstration to mark an anniversary in Yamaguchi Prefecture. Yamaguchi was the base of the late Murashige Aritoshi and the present chief instructor for Yamaguchi Prefecture was his student. I think I was about 3rd or 4th dan and I had a good uke. I had been practicing the kata guruma waza favoured by Hiroshi Isoyama and so this and koshi waza featured prominently in the demonstration. This boisterous demonstration seemed to go down well with the audience, but later I heard from my own teacher that Kisshomaru Doshu, who always attends such events, was not so happy: I did not demonstrate kihon waza, as I should have done.

So I believe that Kisshomaru Ueshiba also taught and demonstrated 'kihon waza', but he was well aware, and the present Doshu is also well aware, that such waza constitute only a small part of the total art. It seems to me that there is a broad division between what is 'officially' taught at the Hombu and what is taught elsewhere, including Iwama and local dojos like the one here in Hiroshima. When I came here, I was surprised to encounter very interesting waza that I had not seen before and sometimes discussed this with the senior yudansha here: at some point the discussion usually mentioned Daito-ryu, the Takumakai, and what Morihei Ueshiba taught in Osaka.

I have asked Doshu and other Hombu teachers whether Morihei Ueshiba did IP training and the answer was yes, but with the rider that he never taught it: he left this type of training to students who perceived it and wanted to do it. The corollary was (is) that this type of training should be a complement to one's 'kihon' training, but not a substitute for it.

In Hidden in Plain Sight, Ellis Amdur discusses the matter of reducing the vast number of waza found in Daito-ryu. The accepted tradition is that Kisshomaru did this, but Ellis makes a strong case that Morihei himself did it (I do not have the book in front of me, but I think it is discussed in Chapter 4: the 'religious' chapter). So one might conclude that Morihei Ueshiba did this as part of his religious mission to bring the three worlds into harmony, but that Kisshomaru, who set little store by such religious theories, accepted the reduction because it made aikido far more accessible to a large number of people and so ensured its survival.

The problem of keeping aikido 'pure' is that it automatically sets up a dialectical conflict between the 'pure' and everything else and I have spent some effort arguing elsewhere that neither Morihei Ueshiba nor his spiritual teacher Onisaburo Deguchi saw the world in such terms.

Best wishes,

PAG

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Old 05-10-2014, 08:31 PM   #67
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post

The problem of keeping aikido 'pure' is that it automatically sets up a dialectical conflict between the 'pure' and everything else and I have spent some effort arguing elsewhere that neither Morihei Ueshiba nor his spiritual teacher Onisaburo Deguchi saw the world in such terms.

Best wishes,

PAG
May be because whatever M.Ueshiba was doing it was 'by definition' aikido, so there was not any such dualism? In the other hand he was not happy when uchideshi used judo techniques...may be not to 'contaminate' his purification practice?

Nagababa

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Old 05-11-2014, 12:51 PM   #68
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

C'mom guys!! It´s supposed for all of us to learn with the practice of Aikido!
If someone is unhappy about "how Aikido seems not suited to today's fights" , why are you practicing it??

Each Aikido technique is a kata! It means it is supposed to teach something that is impossible to teach with words!! One must practice and learn the concepts hidden in each Kata. Any modern attack ( apart from guns and missiles and lasers and drones ) can be "translated " into Aikido attacks!!
Don't forget that every single Kata in Aikido has countless variations (henka waza). If you do Yokomen uchi with the hand closed it becomes mawashi tsuki ( gangsta style attack).

Aikido is a gigantic gift of knowledge for all of us, and we are insisting on just doing movements and not using our brains!!

I don't understand so much complain!! Please find something modern to do , or start training Aikido seriously!

About the free randori, imagine how fighters think about choosing proper training five centuries ago!! Maybe they had forgot to start training real fighting against each others,!! Maybe they reached the conclusion ( -this type of training is useless in our times when everybody is peaceful and all the forests are free of bandits ready to assault anyone with rusty blades of all types and lenghts! This randori thing must be something for the future, a far more dangerous world to live on!!)

Our ancestors have done all the work yet, thank you all dead guys!! If you are not a great master of the art of fighting please don't think in modernizing this and that!! That kind of thinking will ruin the work others have done and many over great time have perfected!!
Our body is the same gun that existed 2000 years ago!! If we grew another pair of legs... maibe its time to modernize something! Until... Train correctly and help yourself in the process of learning, and stop complaining!
You all can join the army and throw grenades( modern attacks)!

Or the problem is where and with who are you learning....
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:26 PM   #69
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

Since O-Sensei's Aikido was evolving from something else into the art/thing he called Aikido his entire life....

... and it seems that each of his principal students as listed in O/T also evolved some aspect or other in their own tradition...

... shouldn't we all do likewise?

More learning is always better. I liken it to that statement about 20 years experience. Is it really 20 year's experience, or is it the same old year of practice, experienced 20 times? I prefer to think and hope mine is the former.

I find it interesting that the kanji character for kuzushi illustrates a mountain falling on a house.
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Old 05-11-2014, 02:01 PM   #70
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

Quote:
John Powell wrote: View Post
Since O-Sensei's Aikido was evolving from something else into the art/thing he called Aikido his entire life....

... and it seems that each of his principal students as listed in O/T also evolved some aspect or other in their own tradition...

... shouldn't we all do likewise?
Is there other way? I never noticed ! To not, in the process of learning Aikido, get a form of Aikido for yourself and copy someone instead, i think the laws of phisics make that impossible!!

Obviously all principal Ueashiba students have their own form of Aikido ! I allways have mine!
The problem is , if Ueshiba students said ( - this old guy teaches something outdatted lets find other way ) , then they would not come to the days of today as great Aikido masters! They have their own form of Aikido not because they searched for it!! It is because it's impossible to do it other way!

Sorry the writing( spell check not working)

Last edited by Gonzalo : 05-11-2014 at 02:03 PM. Reason: gramar =)
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Old 05-12-2014, 11:03 AM   #71
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

I think demonstrations are an incredible opportunity to experience the pressure of taking an art, embodying it in 5 minutes of demonstration that is relevant and inspirational. I think the exercise itself gives us a great perspective, especially when someone approaches us after the demo and says, "great interpretive dance!" Or, "Wow, I have never seen karate." I think it is telling what people can and cannot observe about the aikido we demonstrate.

Aikido is largely recycled curriculum - that is, it shares its curriculum with a predecessor. Our ability to demonstrate aiki in our waza is what sets us apart from good jujutsu or good judo or good karate or any number of other arts. The hard part is showing others what that is in an inspirational and relevant manner.

Purity may well be best defined as something you can show and the audience says, "Ohhhh!!!. Thanks aikido." But seriously, no ribbons and no bongo drums.

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Old 05-12-2014, 11:34 AM   #72
Cliff Judge
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Jon Reading wrote: View Post
Aikido is largely recycled curriculum - that is, it shares its curriculum with a predecessor. Our ability to demonstrate aiki in our waza is what sets us apart from good jujutsu or good judo or good karate or any number of other arts. The hard part is showing others what that is in an inspirational and relevant manner.
Honestly, the kihon waza of Aikido are pretty generic and have analogues in all sorts of different systems. I have lately begun to wonder if it is as important as people think that the techniques were part of Daito ryu. They have certainly diverged in their development over the intervening generations.
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:28 PM   #73
Gonzalo
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
Honestly, the kihon waza of Aikido are pretty generic and have analogues in all sorts of different systems.
We all have similar bodies!! Any good martial art have a form of kotegaeshi because everybody have wrists. But with the training each one have, and the evolving knowledge about the martial way that comes from training and watching and thinking and trying, at some point we all can watch a demonstration and see if the kotegaeshi is good or not!!
There are millions of aikido demonstrations on youtube and 99% are terrible!!
I never found a bad Daito Ryu demo! Why?
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:47 PM   #74
PeterR
 
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Gonēalo Alves wrote: View Post
There are millions of aikido demonstrations on youtube and 99% are terrible!!
I never found a bad Daito Ryu demo! Why?
Perhaps you haven't looked hard enough.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 05-12-2014, 01:00 PM   #75
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: Why bother keeping Aikido 'pure'?

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Jon Reading wrote: View Post
I think demonstrations are an incredible opportunity to experience the pressure of taking an art, embodying it in 5 minutes of demonstration that is relevant and inspirational. I think the exercise itself gives us a great perspective, especially when someone approaches us after the demo and says, "great interpretive dance!" Or, "Wow, I have never seen karate." I think it is telling what people can and cannot observe about the aikido we demonstrate.

Aikido is largely recycled curriculum - that is, it shares its curriculum with a predecessor. Our ability to demonstrate aiki in our waza is what sets us apart from good jujutsu or good judo or good karate or any number of other arts. The hard part is showing others what that is in an inspirational and relevant manner.

Purity may well be best defined as something you can show and the audience says, "Ohhhh!!!. Thanks aikido." But seriously, no ribbons and no bongo drums.
Hi Jon,
No ribbons or bongo drums?Life without these two things aint worth living.Nothing beats a ribbon and the infectious beat of a bongo. Instead of watching Aikido on You tube, watch a bit of Carmen Miranda or try Ki Ribbons [on youtube ]. Cheers, Joe.
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