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Old 08-07-2002, 04:45 PM   #1
ChristianBoddum
 
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Dojo: Aarhus AiKiKai
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Shiai - kumitachi ??

Hi ev'rybody !
I've been searching my glossaries to find
explanation of the two words,shiai and
kumitachi with no result,I am I wrong that
they refer to what I know as ken-tai-ken.
I'll be going to USA soon and have found
somewhere to train,so I may stumble into a
lot of similar misunderstandings.


Thanks - Yours Chr.B.
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Old 08-07-2002, 05:57 PM   #2
IrimiTom
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Kumitachi is paired bokken kata. Shiai has something to do with competition, but I don't know exactly what it is.
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Old 08-07-2002, 09:09 PM   #3
PeterR
 
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Re: Shiai - kumitachi ??

Quote:
Christian Boddum (ChristianBoddum) wrote:
Hi ev'rybody !

I've been searching my glossaries to find

explanation of the two words,shiai and

kumitachi with no result,I am I wrong that

they refer to what I know as ken-tai-ken.

I'll be going to USA soon and have found

somewhere to train,so I may stumble into a

lot of similar misunderstandings.
In what context is the word shiai coming up - is it practiced in the Aikido dojo you have found in the US. Let me know where and I can answer the question better.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 08-08-2002, 09:02 AM   #4
ChristianBoddum
 
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Hi again !

I'll be guesting the Multnomah aikikai of Portland Oregon,I'm not really sure what style

it represents but that I will find out.

So now about the kumitachi,this seems to be Paired bokken practice in Iwama-ryu, so far so good.

The question of shiai is not directly related to my dojo visit but more a thing of curiosity,it has popped up a few times when reading also of other styles,at first I thought it had to do with cutting bamboo mats,

but now I read that it has more to do with two

people competing.So what is it ?

Yours - Chr.B.
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Old 08-08-2002, 09:08 AM   #5
akiy
 
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Quote:
Christian Boddum (ChristianBoddum) wrote:
The question of shiai is not directly related to my dojo visit but more a thing of curiosity,it has popped up a few times when reading also of other styles,at first I thought it had to do with cutting bamboo mats,
The cutting of rolled up bamboo mats with live blades (shinken) would be "tameshigiri." It's fun and educational.
Quote:
but now I read that it has more to do with two people competing.So what is it ?
Usually "shiai" is a competition involving points between two people like a judo match. Some approaches to aikido involve such matches within their practice.

-- Jun

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Old 08-09-2002, 04:19 AM   #6
JJF
 
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Hi Christian!

No need to ask the forum - just come to me (we're dojo-mates...).

Anyway when I practiced Kendo Shiai was the term used for having a match where two people would try to score point on each other. I can't recalle having heard the term used in connection with Aikido though.

Kumitachi is often used (as mentioned above) about what we call ken-tai-ken in 'Nishio style' aikido. An example can be found on this webaddress:

http://omlc.ogi.edu/aikido/weapons/b...kken/Bokken%20(kumitachi)

I believe it is related to the late Saito sensei since hi's name is mentioned here and there on the site. A quote from the site says:"The kumitachi came originally from an old sword school. They were modified to include the concept of Aiki by the Founder, Professor Morihei Ueshiba, who left them as a legacy."

This is supposedly something written by Saito sensei.

I hope this helps, and that we will have a chance to meet in the dojo before you leave.

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
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Old 08-09-2002, 06:18 AM   #7
ChristianBoddum
 
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Hi y'all !

Thanks so far,so now it's just down to shiai,

I read about an akikido sensei who went to

USA to spread akikido on O'senseis request,

and he was challenged by masters of other styles,and in this context it was referred to as shiai.

And to my good mate Jorgen :

you know you spook me man,(jorgen has this eerie thing,a joyful and somewhat sadistic-pleased-with-himself look that will keep you on your toes)ideed we are mates,and when we are together we are pretty mates... !

Yours - Chr.B.
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Old 08-12-2002, 04:09 AM   #8
JJF
 
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Quote:
Christian Boddum (ChristianBoddum) wrote:
...jorgen has this eerie thing,a joyful and somewhat sadistic-pleased-with-himself look that will keep you on your toes)ideed we are mates,and when we are together we are pretty mates...
Hmmmm... Thank's - I guess!! but you know "sadism is in the eyes of the beholder" (or something like that...)

As I mentioned in my post I believe Shiai to be a 'competiontion' within martial art. A quick search on 'Google' gave me this quote from a karate-related website http://www.kenyukai.net/shiai.html:

"In recent years, with the development of Free-style sparring, it became possible to hold actual Karate matches. Shiai used to be actual fights to the death between two opponents challenging each other. At that time, there were no rules to govern such fights. Any technique could be used - even attacks to the grion and vitals points on the body are permitted.

As Shiai becomes more tightly governed, it has subsequently evolved into a sporting competition administered by strict rules to prevent unecessary injuries, conducted in a fair atmosphere of true sportsmanship.

In addition I found this quote from http://www.aikidoamerica.com/html/randori.html:

"Shiai. An aspect of aikido training can take the form of shiai or a competitive sport. However, a sport competition requires above all safety for the contestants and that imposes some limitations in tournament (shiai) aikido. Certain aspects of aikido training (as a martial art) are not suitable for competition.

Realistically conducted randori can also accomplish similar objectives as in shiai. Shiai is in effect a form of randori under a set of rules that make it a competitive sport."

Does this help ?

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
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Old 08-12-2002, 05:22 AM   #9
ChristianBoddum
 
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Re: Shiai - kumitachi ??

Hi again !

Yes and thanks,since competing is really of little interest for me this is fine by now.

I hope you got the pretty mates part

yours - Chr.B.
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