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Old 04-29-2015, 06:05 PM   #1
Asou
 
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Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeFw4L7EnAs

how many of you practice above ukemi back fall?

How do you train?

What is your opinion about feather fall ukemi (silent breakfall, etc) in general?

Let's discuss!
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:56 PM   #2
JP3
 
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

I have a student who is fascinated by these falls as he is older (65+) has 2 artificial knees, and wants to learn such styles of ukemi. I, personally, learned my falls on a judo mat so I'm ssatisfied, but...

I find it interesting that the kanji character for kuzushi illustrates a mountain falling on a house.
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Old 04-30-2015, 06:46 AM   #3
Eva Antonia
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Hi,

I think this is a great method to do this fall! It is not taught frequently, and I always wanted to learn it because I think the standard backwards roll is awkward, doesn't work on a rapid irimi nage omote, and the backwards breakfall I did instead (buffering with leg and arms) does not always provide security from banging your head. Finally I learned it when visiting a judo dojo. The method is slightly different (grab your partner's stretched arm, kick both feet upwards and glide on your free arm) but the fall is the same.

Still, I can do it only when I know it beforehand; on a surprise irimi nage it wouldn't work. It needs practice. And I still can't do it without something to hold on...but I KNOW that is possible.

Thanks for showing this video!

Eva
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Old 04-30-2015, 08:13 AM   #4
Asou
 
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Quote:
Eva Röben wrote: View Post
Hi,

I think this is a great method to do this fall! It is not taught frequently, and I always wanted to learn it because I think the standard backwards roll is awkward, doesn't work on a rapid irimi nage omote, and the backwards breakfall I did instead (buffering with leg and arms) does not always provide security from banging your head. Finally I learned it when visiting a judo dojo. The method is slightly different (grab your partner's stretched arm, kick both feet upwards and glide on your free arm) but the fall is the same.

Still, I can do it only when I know it beforehand; on a surprise irimi nage it wouldn't work. It needs practice. And I still can't do it without something to hold on...but I KNOW that is possible.

Thanks for showing this video!

Eva
well, hello fraulein

ah yes... urhhh you're welcome

ahh i want to rant a bit

everyone in my dojo doesn't want to train their ukemi. They can only do forward, backward roll.

while me...

I can do this after reverse engineering this from youtube after 4 months
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czKXupvYfbU
I don't mean to brag, it just feels lonely when you train by yourself, even after you try to convince other people to try, and they never listens the importance of ukemi.

I can't train by myself

oh well, i'm just a kyu 4 anyway
How can I convince them
end rants

btw, so in judo, you land by the side of your body?? That's they way I imagined it
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Old 04-30-2015, 11:22 AM   #5
nikyu62
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

I think at 53 I would want a crash pad to try to learn this, let alone teach it. Nice moves, though.
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Old 04-30-2015, 05:12 PM   #6
Susan Dalton
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

We are working on feather falls one class a week in our dojo. I must say it is humbling that I must go into the group with the beginners, while a 15-year-old white belt has beautiful feather falls after only a few months.
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Old 04-30-2015, 06:28 PM   #7
Asou
 
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Quote:
Susan Dalton wrote: View Post
We are working on feather falls one class a week in our dojo. I must say it is humbling that I must go into the group with the beginners, while a 15-year-old white belt has beautiful feather falls after only a few months.
Susan, do you have any tips? Any tips to minimize injuries? Any tips of body positioning? Do you guys train exactly like the video with the progression just like the step by step in the vid? or do you have something that's not in the video? thank you!
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Old 04-30-2015, 10:36 PM   #8
Dan Rubin
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

This might help you:

"Myanmar Aikido - ukemi practice"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMpBpM38TMg
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Old 04-30-2015, 11:03 PM   #9
Asou
 
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Quote:
Dan Rubin wrote: View Post
This might help you:

"Myanmar Aikido - ukemi practice"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMpBpM38TMg
I can do that starting from 00:02 - 02:07

the rest, especially when uke goes "armbar" at 02:50 , I tried it, I went ouch haha. No step by step on that
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Old 05-01-2015, 01:31 PM   #10
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Quote:
Konstantinus Darwin wrote: View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeFw4L7EnAs

how many of you practice above ukemi back fall?

How do you train?

What is your opinion about feather fall ukemi (silent breakfall, etc) in general?

Let's discuss!
This kind of falls is completely useless in aikido. The ukes of Ch.Tissier were doing it already 30 years ago.
Even if nage has a real control on uke(which is not a case on this video), he will never be able to throw uke like that. In reality it is uke who is throwing himself, which means that the technique is a fake.
It is some kind of gymnastic not connected to aikido practice.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 05-01-2015, 02:43 PM   #11
Susan Dalton
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

We've been working on the front version rather than the back version. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5U2E0kA8_8

We haven't been practicing this way (using nage's knee for support), so thanks for asking . I went through old email and found this video. I'm going to forward it to the person who normally teaches this fall. We've been having one person lie on the floor and have everyone go over him with the front shoulder on his back and the back arm reaching toward the floor (like in example 3). Then we have him get up on hands and knees and we all go over him the same way, just from a little higher spot. Some people are doing the fall from a standing throw, which I have not graduated to yet. (I've only been to a couple of these classes.) After 25 years of the way I'm used to rolling, it feels really, really weird to me, but I think I will like it once I learn it.

And yes, one takes the force of the throw by bending at the waist and then sets up one's own fall, so it can seem fake. Since I'm pushing the big 60, I don't take many break falls anymore. I can take them but why? My chiropractor has gotten enough of my business.

I'm not sure these falls will ever replace rolling out for me, but who knows? I'd like to have another option.
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Old 05-01-2015, 02:46 PM   #12
Tim Mailloux
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
This kind of falls is completely useless in aikido. The ukes of Ch.Tissier were doing it already 30 years ago.
Even if nage has a real control on uke(which is not a case on this video), he will never be able to throw uke like that. In reality it is uke who is throwing himself, which means that the technique is a fake.
It is some kind of gymnastic not connected to aikido practice.
I completely agree.
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Old 05-01-2015, 04:23 PM   #13
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

I can do the back one, but I agree that it's not too practical so I don't make an effort to perfect it.

The front one (like what Susan posted), however, is awesome. I use it mostly in tests or at seminars when I think there is a chance that nage is going to get too "excited" and try to rip my head off. I stick to them hard and use their body as a pivot to control my own fall. I can protect myself even when the nage is a brute and they aren't trying to let me do it (or expecting me to).

It works even when the head is completely pinned. IMHO, iriminage shouldn't let uke's head rotate around forward in order to allow a front roll, so it's a bad idea to train ukemi that way.
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Old 05-01-2015, 11:11 PM   #14
Asou
 
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
This kind of falls is completely useless in aikido. The ukes of Ch.Tissier were doing it already 30 years ago.
Even if nage has a real control on uke(which is not a case on this video), he will never be able to throw uke like that. In reality it is uke who is throwing himself, which means that the technique is a fake.
It is some kind of gymnastic not connected to aikido practice.
I'm kinda obsessed with iriminage, so how do you think we should do iriminage? The uke and nage, of course

Your input would be a tremendous assistance, Sir Janczuk. I'm kinda lost.

Quote:
Conrad Gustafson wrote: View Post
I can do the back one, but I agree that it's not too practical so I don't make an effort to perfect it.

The front one (like what Susan posted), however, is awesome. I use it mostly in tests or at seminars when I think there is a chance that nage is going to get too "excited" and try to rip my head off. I stick to them hard and use their body as a pivot to control my own fall. I can protect myself even when the nage is a brute and they aren't trying to let me do it (or expecting me to).

It works even when the head is completely pinned. IMHO, iriminage shouldn't let uke's head rotate around forward in order to allow a front roll, so it's a bad idea to train ukemi that way.
yeah, I have to agree, the front one feels good. Less impact and I feel very secured, not to mention, it's soundless. You know, sometimes, the sound of impact can frighten other students.

any video regarding your explanation above?

Quote:
Susan Dalton wrote: View Post
We've been working on the front version rather than the back version. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5U2E0kA8_8

We haven't been practicing this way (using nage's knee for support), so thanks for asking . I went through old email and found this video. I'm going to forward it to the person who normally teaches this fall. We've been having one person lie on the floor and have everyone go over him with the front shoulder on his back and the back arm reaching toward the floor (like in example 3). Then we have him get up on hands and knees and we all go over him the same way, just from a little higher spot. Some people are doing the fall from a standing throw, which I have not graduated to yet. (I've only been to a couple of these classes.) After 25 years of the way I'm used to rolling, it feels really, really weird to me, but I think I will like it once I learn it.

And yes, one takes the force of the throw by bending at the waist and then sets up one's own fall, so it can seem fake. Since I'm pushing the big 60, I don't take many break falls anymore. I can take them but why? My chiropractor has gotten enough of my business.

I'm not sure these falls will ever replace rolling out for me, but who knows? I'd like to have another option.
ahh that's how you do it.

Thx, Susan!

Last edited by Asou : 05-01-2015 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 05-02-2015, 05:26 PM   #15
Tim Mailloux
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Quote:
Konstantinus Darwin wrote: View Post
I'm kinda obsessed with iriminage, so how do you think we should do iriminage? The uke and nage, of course
Not that you asked me, but this is how i try to perform irminage and the corresponding ukemi. The throw and ukemi are not pretty by most aikikai aikido standards. But it's an effective throw (aka no aiki dancing) and the ukemi is very practical and necessary as to not have your head removed from your body or jaw broken.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=07DRkWPwwQg

Make sure to watch the entire video If you want to see some great Ikkyo ukemi.
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Old 05-02-2015, 11:45 PM   #16
Asou
 
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Quote:
Tim Mailloux wrote: View Post
Not that you asked me, but this is how i try to perform irminage and the corresponding ukemi. The throw and ukemi are not pretty by most aikikai aikido standards. But it's an effective throw (aka no aiki dancing) and the ukemi is very practical and necessary as to not have your head removed from your body or jaw broken.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=07DRkWPwwQg

Make sure to watch the entire video If you want to see some great Ikkyo ukemi.
it sure looks like the uke is trying to protect his knees.

Are you referring to this type of ikkyo ukemi where uke protects his knee by landing softly slowly with their torso?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvjvEVoreU4

this is a good insight for iriminage, it looks just like from the textbook, sure it doesn't look all glittery and flashly, but it gets the job done.

Thank you, Tim!
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Old 05-03-2015, 04:14 PM   #17
Susan Dalton
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Quote:
Konstantinus Darwin wrote: View Post
I'm kinda obsessed with iriminage, so how do you think we should do iriminage? The uke and nage, of course
There are many, many different ways to do iriminage. My favorite is iriminage omote with a tenkan at the end, where nage's hip drives into uke's hip.
Susan

Last edited by akiy : 05-04-2015 at 09:01 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tag
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Old 05-03-2015, 07:32 PM   #18
Asou
 
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Quote:
Susan Dalton wrote: View Post
There are many, many different ways to do iriminage. My favorite is iriminage omote with a tenkan at the end, where nage's hip drives into uke's hip.
Susan
so hip meets hip, and then the nage rotate with the arm taking down uke's head? Resulting in ukemi just like the ostoff style link that you give me in 3:35?

Last edited by akiy : 05-04-2015 at 09:02 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tag
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Old 05-05-2015, 08:31 AM   #19
sorokod
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
This kind of falls is completely useless in aikido. The ukes of Ch.Tissier were doing it already 30 years ago.
Even if nage has a real control on uke(which is not a case on this video), he will never be able to throw uke like that. In reality it is uke who is throwing himself, which means that the technique is a fake.
It is some kind of gymnastic not connected to aikido practice.
Same coin - flip side: this kind of ukemi will lead to injuries when training with someone executing a tight technique.

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Old 05-05-2015, 10:06 AM   #20
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
Same coin - flip side: this kind of ukemi will lead to injuries when training with someone executing a tight technique.
This.

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Old 05-05-2015, 10:19 AM   #21
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Quote:
Tim Mailloux wrote: View Post
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=07DRkWPwwQg

Make sure to watch the entire video If you want to see some great Ikkyo ukemi.
Can anyone explain me what the xxxx happened between 1:30 - 1:55?

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Old 05-05-2015, 04:49 PM   #22
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Can anyone explain me what the xxxx happened between 1:30 - 1:55?
Hello Demetrio,

His partner clearly was not ready for Chiba's grab. (I am speaking from experience here.)

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Old 05-05-2015, 07:19 PM   #23
Susan Dalton
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Re: Ukemi - Feather Back Fall

Sorry, I'm jumping around. Iriminage omote is my favorite technique but I'm off the subject of feather falls and just talking about iriminage.
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