Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-28-2013, 06:29 AM   #1
osaya
 
osaya's Avatar
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 51
Australia
Offline
dealing with uke from hell

George Ledyard Sensei recently wrote a brilliant post about the Role of Uke, and i wanted to bring the discussion back to the role of tori, with that already in mind.

when I say 'uke from hell' (UFH), i use the term as i remember reading it from somewhere long ago, in that UHF is a skilled practitioner who knows what s/he is doing, but intentionally gives tori uncommitted attacks, locks off, or pulls a kaeshi waza. in the context where i first read about that term, it was used as a specific training drill to help tori learn sensitivity, reversals and so forth.

however, i'm wondering what one could/should do if there were particular practitioners, who were UFH out of a specific training context? i meant, if there was a practitioner who would constantly give uncommitted attacks, lock off, or pull a kaeshi waza, regardless of what sensei was teaching, what should one do?

assuming that sensei has decided not to take specific action on that student--does that mean that tori should move out of the boundaries of the specific technique being taught, and start implementing his/her repertoire of henka waza, kaeshi waza or atemi waza on that person? or is that just being spiteful and disrespectful?

without having to fall back on sensei's role/responsibility here, what would be the responsible and appropriate response of a fellow student in this case? should they just try and try again to do the specific technique that sensei demonstrated, patiently until they get it just right? or is this an off-mat matter?

Last edited by osaya : 08-28-2013 at 06:30 AM. Reason: grammar
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 07:39 AM   #2
Belt_Up
Dojo: Dynamic Aikido Nocquet
Location: Hartlepool
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 106
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Quote:
Seng-Yew Ong wrote: View Post
does that mean that tori should move out of the boundaries of the specific technique being taught, and start implementing his/her repertoire of henka waza, kaeshi waza or atemi waza on that person?
Oh my yes. If uke is resisting in such a fashion, you must change and adapt. If uke knows which technique is coming, even if you're stronger, they know exactly how to resist in order to defeat it. So, improvise, and do something else.

Training with resistance can be very useful. However, this type of resistance is spiteful, disrespectful, and a waste of time for tori and uke.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 11:56 AM   #3
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,133
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

I believe this kind of training is very valuable as a part of normal training cycle. It means, during class, you need a time to learn a new technique in very cooperative way, but also must be a time where you are pushed outside of your comfort zone by the kind of training you describe.
You can set yourself different goals when you face uke with described behavior: an easy one is to respond to his reaction with whatever is efficient to control him. This kind of training develops spontaneous reaction from your part. Another goal can be closing all openings in a known technique – then you try to do only this one technique. Normally, when you really master a certain technique, no counter is possible (see top judo players who use only 2-3 techniques and everybody knows which technique they are using).

So I think it is nothing to do with respect but it is a part of normal training. Sure thing, non-committed attacks are very difficult to deal with, even if you have 8 dan level. But it is a fun way to discover hidden aspects of aikido
You are very lucky to have such partner in your dojo.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 01:57 PM   #4
Rob Watson
Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 698
United_States
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Anything that is not disruptive to the class is on the table in my book.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 03:11 PM   #5
Conrad Gus
 
Conrad Gus's Avatar
Dojo: Victoria Family Aikido
Location: Victoria, BC
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 243
Canada
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Quote:
Seng-Yew Ong wrote: View Post
assuming that sensei has decided not to take specific action on that student--does that mean that tori should move out of the boundaries of the specific technique being taught, and start implementing his/her repertoire of henka waza, kaeshi waza or atemi waza on that person? or is that just being spiteful and disrespectful?
That would be the worst thing to do. It will just turn into a pissing contest that is categorically NOT aikido training. Too much competition and ego involved.

When I run into this kind of person, I just adopt an attitude of "I guess you're just too good for me!". It's a loss of opportunity for both people, but I'd rather waste my time than end up injured. Hopefully you get to switch partners and UFH can go bother somebody else for a while. I really don't care what somebody like that thinks of me or my ability.

If the person is in my circle consistently (i.e. wasting my time a lot), then it's time to find the most aikido way to present an attitude of "I'm not training with you anymore because you're an idiot".

If I am teaching I will teach them how to take ukemi. If I'm not teaching AND I'm significantly senior to the person AND I quite like them, then I might find a kind way to enlighten them. In all other cases, they are free to bask in their own ignorance and stagnate forever.

Conrad
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 04:27 PM   #6
Susan Dalton
Dojo: Greensboro Kodokan
Location: Greensboro
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 240
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

A long time ago, for some reason my son was in class and I was not. He was maybe 13 or so, had been doing aikido since he was 5, and was not very big.

When I came to pick him up, I noticed that he was working with someone who used strength and size to stop every technique. Then it was my son's turn to be uke. "Uh oh," I thought, "he's going to do the exact same thing back to this guy" because of course that's what I would have done. But no, he was the same relaxed, committed uke he always is. To me, that was aikido.
Susan
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 05:07 PM   #7
Mary Eastland
 
Mary Eastland's Avatar
Dojo: Berkshire Hills Aikido
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,185
Online
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Quote:
Susan Dalton wrote: View Post
A long time ago, for some reason my son was in class and I was not. He was maybe 13 or so, had been doing aikido since he was 5, and was not very big.

When I came to pick him up, I noticed that he was working with someone who used strength and size to stop every technique. Then it was my son's turn to be uke. "Uh oh," I thought, "he's going to do the exact same thing back to this guy" because of course that's what I would have done. But no, he was the same relaxed, committed uke he always is. To me, that was aikido.
Susan
What a splendid example of what Aikido is.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 06:55 PM   #8
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,926
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Quote:
Susan Dalton wrote: View Post
A long time ago, for some reason my son was in class and I was not. He was maybe 13 or so, had been doing aikido since he was 5, and was not very big.

When I came to pick him up, I noticed that he was working with someone who used strength and size to stop every technique. Then it was my son's turn to be uke. "Uh oh," I thought, "he's going to do the exact same thing back to this guy" because of course that's what I would have done. But no, he was the same relaxed, committed uke he always is. To me, that was aikido.
Susan
I have at times with such students, if their technique as nage isn't dangerous to me but their ukemi isn't offering me what I think I need to learn from, simply offered to continue in the role of uke, smiling and saying I learn so much more that way...and just focus on my ukemi skills from good attack through maintaining softness and connection....

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 07:58 PM   #9
Shadowfax
 
Shadowfax's Avatar
Dojo: Allegheny Aikido, Pitsburgh PA
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 882
United_States
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Keep in mind that uke is on his own journey and might be completely unaware that he/she is being difficult. Or maybe he/she is aware and is working on it but is just not there yet.

If I am consistently having a problem with a specific person I just ask my sensei how I should respond when in that situation. It is usually me that needs to change rather than my partner. Occasionally it is the other way around and sensei speaks to them about it or perhaps it is someplace in the middle. Any rate perfect ukes are few and far between. Which is probably as it should be.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 08:26 PM   #10
osaya
 
osaya's Avatar
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 51
Australia
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Quote:
Geoff Byers wrote: View Post
Oh my yes. If uke is resisting in such a fashion, you must change and adapt. If uke knows which technique is coming, even if you're stronger, they know exactly how to resist in order to defeat it. So, improvise, and do something else..
Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
You can set yourself different goals when you face uke with described behavior: an easy one is to respond to his reaction with whatever is efficient to control him. This kind of training develops spontaneous reaction from your part. Another goal can be closing all openings in a known technique -- then you try to do only this one technique. Normally, when you really master a certain technique, no counter is possible (see top judo players who use only 2-3 techniques and everybody knows which technique they are using) .
Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
Anything that is not disruptive to the class is on the table in my book.
assuming that one takes this as an opportunity to be more spontaneous, and polish their own techniques etc., should one do this only with the explicit consent/understanding of sensei or even the UFH--or just do it whenever this comes up?

are there any established etiquette or code of conduct in regard to such a situation particularly if you are not at your regular dojo (e.g. at a large seminar or another dojo)? i mean my concerns are primarily re: 1) being inadvertantly disrespectful to sensei, 2) things deteriorating into a 'pissing contest' or 3) missing the implicit lesson of developing patience and harmony.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 08:31 PM   #11
osaya
 
osaya's Avatar
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 51
Australia
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Quote:
Susan Dalton wrote: View Post
When I came to pick him up, I noticed that he was working with someone who used strength and size to stop every technique. Then it was my son's turn to be uke. "Uh oh," I thought, "he's going to do the exact same thing back to this guy" because of course that's what I would have done. But no, he was the same relaxed, committed uke he always is. To me, that was aikido.
Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
What a splendid example of what Aikido is.
Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
I have at times with such students, if their technique as nage isn't dangerous to me but their ukemi isn't offering me what I think I need to learn from, simply offered to continue in the role of uke, smiling and saying I learn so much more that way...and just focus on my ukemi skills from good attack through maintaining softness and connection....
i think there certainly is a great aspect to develop and nurture--i.e. continuing to maintain self-control as uke when you have been treated difficultly by the training partner. but i'm wondering what your thoughts would be specifically on the role of tori in such situations?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 12:39 AM   #12
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
Location: Oceanside, California
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,122
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

If Uke isn't trying to be a PITA, I will ask him to lighten up so I can work on moving through the technique to learn it. If that fails, I simply do a henka waza with a smile and continue to train. I have had one experience in which Uke was intentionally being a PITA, and after discussing it with him a couple of different times, did the henka waza and explained that we can all thwart a technique we know is coming from virtually anyone, but some of us know two or three other unexpected techniques that will work. Never had a problem with that person again and I enjoy working with him now.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 07:14 AM   #13
Walter Martindale
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
Location: Cambridge, ON
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 656
Canada
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

If you're in a dojo where speaking during training is permitted (some don't allow it), ask something like, "Ok, I see I'm not moving you - where am I going wrong - what do I have to do to make you move?" or something along those lines.

My experience has been that most people of higher grade than mine will let me get away with somewhat ineffective movements, (particularly with a new move) but get less and less forgiving as I learn the movement, until if I screw up, they block at least, counter at most. I usually look inquisitively and ask how to make it work - or I ask sensei - who usually fixes it with a "turn hip this way"...

HTH.
and if none of that works, try to problem solve yourself. If that's not working, buy the guy/gal a beer and ask what you should do.. If THAT doesn't work I'm at a loss.

Last edited by Walter Martindale : 08-29-2013 at 07:17 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 11:51 AM   #14
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,926
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Of course you can also always say Onegaishemasi...to Sensei and tell him you seem to be having problems doing the technique.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 12:08 PM   #15
aikijean
Dojo: Club d'Aikido de Québec
Location: Québec
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17
Canada
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

A resisting uke is open for every thing else since his mind is on resisting a technique he knows is coming.When you resist you cannot do kaeshiwaza and you exposes yourself to all kind of bad things from nage. I never saw resistance in a jiuwaza or randori because uke does not know what's coming.
I am with Corky Q on that one when he says a resisting uke is not attacking but defending and to do aiki you need a commited attack.
When I enconter a uke like that I try to relax completely, that way I do not give any physical indication in my body where my energy will come from. I have learned one thing over the years, if nage is tense uke becomes tense, if nage relaxes uke relaxes even if he wants to resist. It is very hard to do, I can do it sometimes not much enough to my taste but working very hard on it. I wish somebody had teached me that when I was beginning aikido.
My worst uke is somebody whose not attacking at all, I mean he grabs me with a noodle arm or does a shomen who dies before it even starts. I don't know what to do with that kind of no attack. I cannot connect with him, should I throw myself at him, march on him until he goes to the ground ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 12:12 PM   #16
senshincenter
 
senshincenter's Avatar
Dojo: Senshin Center
Location: Dojo Address: 193 Turnpike Rd. Santa Barbara, CA.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,422
United_States
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Noting that this is an UFH, and not a compassionate senpai that is teaching and guiding through exposing openings or incorrect angles, etc., in a kohai's technique, adapting the technique is never a good idea in a Kihon Waza setting. As others have said, the UFH will just become (now) openly egocentric and express that lack of virtue via anger, insult, or even violence. This is especially true when the nage does not have the institutional support of the ranking system and/or federation title.

Over the years, in my contact with UFHs, I've done the smiles, and the reversals, and the atemi, etc., but looking back now, I see that what is really going on is a dojo being ran by a sensei/dojocho that either doesn't know the right thing to do or that does not have the courage and integrity to do the right thing. That is the only way you get a UFH to reguarly appear on the mat in a Kihon Waza oriented class.

If you really want a solution to this problem, I would leave the dojo and find a more cultivated teacher.

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 01:56 PM   #17
hughrbeyer
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Boston
Location: Peterborough, NH
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 653
United_States
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Saotome Shihan says that if you're not allowed to hit uke, uke knows what you're going to do, and you're not allowed to change it, any aikido technique can be blocked. (I think Ledyard Sensei quoted him in the article referenced by the OP.)

In our dojo, it's fine to show uke gently why the way they've chosen to block a technique leaves them open to atemi. It's fine to show how it invites an alternate technique too. But these days, unless I care for them enough to be training them, I generally take it as a challenge to see what I can do with the situation as presented.

Evolution doesn't prove God doesn't exist, any more than hammers prove carpenters don't exist.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 11:55 PM   #18
Sand-Wind
 
Sand-Wind's Avatar
Dojo: Jin Yuu Gi Aikido(Kuwait)
Location: Washington DC
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Kuwait
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

I will be only writing what I have learned so far and if in any way it is wrong or misunderstood it is not the fault of my instructors but my fault because of my poor understanding of Aikido.

1-Now when it comes to attacking while Uke is attacking Uke must commit to the attack if Uke did not commit to the attack it will be of know value and Nage will not be able to learn the technique or the principles behind it. This will be hard for some beginners since at the start of Aikido they will feel that it is unrealistic to do that. They do not understand that its a way to learn more realistic training and situations will come later. That should be discussed between them and their Sensei.

2-If Uke suddenly decides to change the attack or to shift his weight to somewhere other than the attack Nage can either adjust to be able to do the technique or switch to another technique since the attack or the commitment of the attack has changed. Aikido flows and adapts to situations.

3-If Uke is experienced Uke will be more compliant with beginners since they need to learn the motion behind the technique to learn the principles but after a some time(maybe a few months) Uke will be putting up more resistance to make the attack more realistic(some practitioners ask for more resistance from their Uke) and to make sure Nage has good grasp of the principles. That is one of the ways to improve.

4-GO FOR NE-WAZA ITS FUN!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 08:36 AM   #19
Basia Halliop
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 711
Canada
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Quote:
Of course you can also always say Onegaishemasi...to Sensei and tell him you seem to be having problems doing the technique
Yeah, if you're not sure if Sensei has a preference on how you handle things, this is probably the best idea, IMO. Raise your hand and just say you're having a little trouble getting this technique to work, and could he watch and give you some tips. He will see what's happening and will either show you how to do the technique better so uke can't resist, or show you a way to change the technique or do a different technique instead, or take uke and tell them to move differently (I don't suggest you do this yourself if you don't think uke would welcome such advice from you - it's far better coming from the teacher), etc.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 02:59 PM   #20
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,926
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Quote:
Saud Al-Zaidi wrote: View Post
4-GO FOR NE-WAZA ITS FUN!

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2013, 03:47 PM   #21
Robert Cowham
Dojo: East Sheen Aikido and Kashima No Tachi
Location: London, UK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 230
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

UFH experiences are part of life's rich tapestry - the on the mat version at least!

Lots of good advice already given. In my experience, time is a great teacher - you find out what doesn't work, what works sometimes, you get better, they don't necessarily get better if that is all they focus on, etc...
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 07:17 PM   #22
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,709
United_States
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Some of the best lesson I ever learned were learned in hell ...

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 06:14 PM   #23
Stephen Nichol
Dojo: Aikilife, Canberra
Location: Canberra, ACT
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 89
Australia
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Quote:
Cherie Cornmesser wrote: View Post
Keep in mind that uke is on his own journey and might be completely unaware that he/she is being difficult. Or maybe he/she is aware and is working on it but is just not there yet.

If I am consistently having a problem with a specific person I just ask my sensei how I should respond when in that situation. It is usually me that needs to change rather than my partner. Occasionally it is the other way around and sensei speaks to them about it or perhaps it is someplace in the middle. Any rate perfect ukes are few and far between. Which is probably as it should be.
That reflects my experience over and over. Learning to get out of my own way.

It's funny that I think of it more like the Uke from Heaven because training with either:

A: New person with little to no martial back ground let alone Aikido does not move/attack the way someone with even a few months of Aikido 'conditioning' will. So your waza has to be good to create the shape in Uke that you are looking for.

B: Sempai who is hopefully only trying to improve your waza by only blocking/resisting the holes in it but not to the point of countering it. This provides me the opportunity to improve my Kihon.

There will always be those situations where Uke does not even realize that they have grabbed or attacked just slightly incorrectly and so I usually just ask them to make the adjustment but carefully phrase it to not come across as "Like most new people, you attacked me wrong" but instead try for "I believe the intention behind the grab or attack for this particular technique 'Sensei' demonstrated was like this.' and if they are unable to (hopefully not unwilling to make the adjustment) then I am always happy to have Sensei come over and 'explain it to them'.

A little context about how and why the grab/attack way goes a long way towards good productive training. Even if it is only to allow Nage to develop their movement/balance through techniques more than 'this is what you do if someone manages to grab both your hands from behind you and hold them firmly at your side... because this happen to a friend of someone I know just last week...'
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 08:51 AM   #24
Robert Cheshire
 
Robert Cheshire's Avatar
Dojo: Yoseikan Budo/Aikido
Location: Texas
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 86
United_States
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

One option is to do the technique quicker than what the UFH is expecting (not giving them time to resist) or if the is a kensetsu element crank it a little harder.

It reminds me of the time when I was still a mudansha but the senior student and we had a guy that was an UFH on purpose. Me and the next highest ranked student knew we should handle the situation so our Sensei could concentrate on teaching and not any petty issues. What we did is talk to our U.S. Technical Director when we were at a training session at his dojo and explained the situation and how we didn't want to burden our Sensei with having to deal with this aspect of dojo logistics. He just smiled and said that was good (that we were trying to take care of it as best as possible) then he proceeded to tell us that "sometimes to make a (flowering) tree bloom you have to trim/prune a few branches." So basically, said you need to take the Barney Fife approach and "Nip it in the Bud!"

Robert Cheshire
Yoseikan Budo/Aikido
www.yoseikanbudo.us
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 02:25 PM   #25
Bill Danosky
 
Bill Danosky's Avatar
Dojo: BN Yoshinkan
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 433
United_States
Offline
Re: dealing with uke from hell

Doctrinally speaking, I appreciate if uke let's me know something's not working. But in the event that they're actually screwing with you:

You have to be more careful if uke is not moving right- As an experienced shite, sometimes you really have to slow down and make sure you are getting the wrist lock exactly right. Take your time. When uke's eyebrows are raising up and down as you adjust, back off and try a couple more times- particularly with second, third and fourth control. You want to be practicing it right, after all.

If you're satisfied that lightning is now shooting from uke's arm into his brain, practice keeping tension on the lock, as you proceed to the second phase of the throw. Many Aikido techniques are complex and lengthy, so you may reach an understanding before the pin. But if you haven't, you might ask him if you're doing better now.

Repeat as necessary.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hell Hath No Fury Like A Woman Scorned: Threads About Women In Aikido Buck Open Discussions 90 06-20-2008 07:22 PM
Dealing with a jerk... Kevin Wilbanks General 70 01-01-2007 11:33 PM
Article: Writing? Why the Hell Would I? by "The Grindstone" AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 9 09-25-2006 06:35 PM
What the hell? Chris Birke General 127 06-03-2006 08:41 AM
Dealing with Lack of Spirit Kevin Beyer General 6 02-23-2002 03:33 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:58 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate