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Old 07-15-2013, 11:22 AM   #26
jonreading
 
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Things that help me keep perspective:
1. My training is #1. My obligation is to learn aikido to the best of my ability.
2. My Sensei is the guide I have chosen to lead me when I cannot see where I am going.
3. My dojo is the location that will provide me a safe and constructive environment in which to learn aikido.

I have met great instructors without a dojo; great dojos with terrible instructors; great students with no guidance. You get the picture...

It sounds like you have a trust issue - you do not trust your instructor is acting in your best interest by discouraging training outside your organization. In the kohai/sempai relationship, there is some mutual respect and trust required. In the deshi/sensei relationship there is some mutual respect and trust required. If your instructor has violated that trust, then you have a problem that may not be reconcilable. If you are insecure in your trust, then your instructor may be able to reassure you by providing some clarity about his decision-making.

There may be a point of introspection on your part in contributing to your solution. It is not uncommon in educational systems to experience insecurity as part of the learning process. The question is whether your insecurity is justifyible or not.

For example, it is not uncommon for first responders like medics, police, and firefighters to habitualize mundane tasks. While it appears to be unnecessary or even punitive, the task is actually intended to internalize actions that often are integral if not vital to successful response in an emergency. On the other hand, it is also common in martial arts to exclude training that may jeopardize the quality status of the instructor or organization when compared.

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Old 07-15-2013, 01:12 PM   #27
"Torn"
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote: View Post
Don't talk. Listen. Ask his reasons why for not going outside the org then just listen for a clear definitive reasons. The "talk" won't go well if you turn it into a discussion.
Good point. The only problem is that if it becomes a lecture on why I need to only practice this style of Aikido, then what? I will have a definitive opinion from my sensei but, no feedback from my side. I honestly think I know what will be said to me and don't think it will change my opinion about the subject.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:32 PM   #28
"Torn"
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote: View Post
Things that help me keep perspective:
1. My training is #1. My obligation is to learn aikido to the best of my ability.
2. My Sensei is the guide I have chosen to lead me when I cannot see where I am going.
3. My dojo is the location that will provide me a safe and constructive environment in which to learn aikido.

I have met great instructors without a dojo; great dojos with terrible instructors; great students with no guidance. You get the picture...

It sounds like you have a trust issue - you do not trust your instructor is acting in your best interest by discouraging training outside your organization. In the kohai/sempai relationship, there is some mutual respect and trust required. In the deshi/sensei relationship there is some mutual respect and trust required. If your instructor has violated that trust, then you have a problem that may not be reconcilable. If you are insecure in your trust, then your instructor may be able to reassure you by providing some clarity about his decision-making.

There may be a point of introspection on your part in contributing to your solution. It is not uncommon in educational systems to experience insecurity as part of the learning process. The question is whether your insecurity is justifyible or not.

For example, it is not uncommon for first responders like medics, police, and firefighters to habitualize mundane tasks. While it appears to be unnecessary or even punitive, the task is actually intended to internalize actions that often are integral if not vital to successful response in an emergency. On the other hand, it is also common in martial arts to exclude training that may jeopardize the quality status of the instructor or organization when compared.
Thank you for your great perspective. I do honestly trust my sensei. I am grateful to him from leading me on this path and wonderful training. I just feel that he may be stuck in the old style way of thinking. The "Us" vs "Them" mentality. This seems to be a theme with the older generation of Sensei. He has practiced long enough to remember the "The Great Schism" in the early 70's. Should I engage in this mentality also? Stick within this group and only this group? This is the way and only way? My issue I think is not one of trust it is one of perspective. I have practiced with many from our organization and others outside of our group and find them all to be great people. I believe in my heart that there is great Aikido to learn from all groups out there. If I ever open my own dojo I would encourage cross training and training with other groups.

I think maybe another big factor that dojos would prohibit cross training would be the loss of a student or students to other organizations which I can see a problem. This I see as insecurity on the Sensei's part though.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:03 PM   #29
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Good point. The only problem is that if it becomes a lecture on why I need to only practice this style of Aikido, then what?
Well, then your head explodes and the world ends.

I don't mean to make light of your concerns, but I've been thinking for a while that you seem to be borrowing trouble in this thread. What if he thinks this, what if he says this, what if he does this, what if he's doing it because of X or Y or Z. This is leading you nowhere good. There's a real danger in writing a big story (and this one is starting to sound like a 600-page novel) without checking your facts. Once the story is written, if you start to check the facts then and find that reality contradicts the story, you don't like to mess up your nice neat story, and you may be tempted to deny reality and follow your own story line. People do this ALL THE TIME.

I don't think you were necessarily wrong bringing your question here, but I do think that this community (made of people who don't know you or your situation) has long since exhausted any useful educated guessing about your situation. If you want to know the answer, ask the question -- not of us, of the only person who has the answers -- and then listen. If you don't get the answer you like, then either decide to live with it/make your peace with it, or go elsewhere. I don't see any other choice.
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:05 PM   #30
"Torn"
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Well, then your head explodes and the world ends.

I don't mean to make light of your concerns, but I've been thinking for a while that you seem to be borrowing trouble in this thread. What if he thinks this, what if he says this, what if he does this, what if he's doing it because of X or Y or Z. This is leading you nowhere good. There's a real danger in writing a big story (and this one is starting to sound like a 600-page novel) without checking your facts. Once the story is written, if you start to check the facts then and find that reality contradicts the story, you don't like to mess up your nice neat story, and you may be tempted to deny reality and follow your own story line. People do this ALL THE TIME.

I don't think you were necessarily wrong bringing your question here, but I do think that this community (made of people who don't know you or your situation) has long since exhausted any useful educated guessing about your situation. If you want to know the answer, ask the question -- not of us, of the only person who has the answers -- and then listen. If you don't get the answer you like, then either decide to live with it/make your peace with it, or go elsewhere. I don't see any other choice.
Thank you for your excellent point. The talk or confrontation will be inevitable and I unfortunately know what my fate will be. Thank you everyone for your contributions and ideas. I will find my way up the mountain be it on my own path or another mountain altogether. Thank you again.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:13 PM   #31
lbb
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Thank you for your excellent point. The talk or confrontation will be inevitable and I unfortunately know what my fate will be.
If you're following the plot of the novel that you've already written, then yes, you know what your fate will be. You could let reality be what it is and possibly provide you with alternatives, but...that's a choice. If you've already decided on the outcome of a conversation, you might as well not have it. Only have it if you're willing to set aside your story line and listen.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:24 PM   #32
NagaBaba
 
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Longer I practice, less I'm enthousiastic to advice practice aikido in different styles/federations. You see, each of them has his own ' system' where the way you practice, exercises, all small elements have a sense. Once you take it out of such contex, they became almost useless.
I.e. for Iwama folk going to Yamaguchi style ( vice versa) is a quite nonsense.

For practice other martial arts - this is other story. Take a 1year brake from aikido. Dont tell anybody and go practice where you like. After, take decision what next.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:18 AM   #33
phitruong
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Longer I practice, less I'm enthousiastic to advice practice aikido in different styles/federations. You see, each of them has his own ' system' where the way you practice, exercises, all small elements have a sense. Once you take it out of such contex, they became almost useless.
I.e. for Iwama folk going to Yamaguchi style ( vice versa) is a quite nonsense.
i have the opposite problem. the longer i practiced the more i wanted to practice with other styles. to me, each style originated from one of the deshi. each deshi had a picture/view of what O Sensei's aikido was. so essentially, each deshi had a piece of a jigsaw puzzle. the more styles i practice with, the more pieces that i have to be able to see a larger picture of O Sensei's aikido. for me, i don't like to just own one piece. i want to see the picture. of course, that's just me. other folks might view thing differently.

Another thing i looked at is that when i practiced with other styles, and if i can do what they do, then i know i have good mind-body control. if i can't, because i am stuck in my "style", then it means to me that i don't have good mind-body control. i got to be able to look at someone doing the technique and able to do it close to what they do. that is good mind-body control.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:28 PM   #34
hughrbeyer
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Sounds like you know what you want to do and you know it's best for your training. You're just dreading the confrontation with your sensei. So stop worrying and just do it, it's never going to get any easier.

There's actually a traditional Japanese term, which I forget, for when a student in a dojo leaves that dojo and wanders around to different places for a while learning different arts and different approaches. Sounds like that's what you want to do. Anybody remember what the term is? It probably won't help, but it would at least allow you to present what you want to do in a traditional context.

Evolution doesn't prove God doesn't exist, any more than hammers prove carpenters don't exist.
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:49 AM   #35
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Quote:
Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
There's actually a traditional Japanese term, which I forget, for when a student in a dojo leaves that dojo and wanders around to different places for a while learning different arts and different approaches. Sounds like that's what you want to do. Anybody remember what the term is? It probably won't help, but it would at least allow you to present what you want to do in a traditional context.
Perhaps you're thinking of musa shugyo?
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:02 PM   #36
phitruong
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

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Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Perhaps you're thinking of musa shugyo?
i thought it was ronin.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:27 PM   #37
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
i have the opposite problem. the longer i practiced the more i wanted to practice with other styles. to me, each style originated from one of the deshi. each deshi had a picture/view of what O Sensei's aikido was. so essentially, each deshi had a piece of a jigsaw puzzle. the more styles i practice with, the more pieces that i have to be able to see a larger picture of O Sensei's aikido. for me, i don't like to just own one piece. i want to see the picture. of course, that's just me. other folks might view thing differently.

Another thing i looked at is that when i practiced with other styles, and if i can do what they do, then i know i have good mind-body control. if i can't, because i am stuck in my "style", then it means to me that i don't have good mind-body control. i got to be able to look at someone doing the technique and able to do it close to what they do. that is good mind-body control.
I'll give you an example: for Sugano sensei all what happens before contact it is aikido, after it is merly jj. For Saito sensei or Chiba sensei - they require very strong and constant contact. You mix both approaches and not only beginners are completly confused and lost, but in long term you develop strange mix without any clear path.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:31 PM   #38
phitruong
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
I'll give you an example: for Sugano sensei all what happens before contact it is aikido, after it is merly jj. For Saito sensei or Chiba sensei - they require very strong and constant contact. You mix both approaches and not only beginners are completly confused and lost, but in long term you develop strange mix without any clear path.
the OP has 15 years of aikido under his belt. i wouldn't call that beginer, unless he's a very sloooow leaner. in my org, ASU, under Saotome sensei, his direct students, none of their aikido looked like him. he wouldn't want them to. as long as their aikido exhibit the principles that he and Ikeda sensei taught, then that's just fine. and they insisted that aikido has no styles. to me, "clear path" doesn't mean much. it's only "my path" matter.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:22 AM   #39
Asiatic Budoka
 
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
...The talk or confrontation will be inevitable and I unfortunately know what my fate will be.
How do you KNOW? Have you asked why he/she does not want you to "crosstrain"?

Shareef Muhammad

"In order to change our condition, we must first change our way of thinking...it is actually thought that changes us.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:06 PM   #40
"Torn"
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

I would like to thank everyone for all of their opinions on this subject. The input and opinions are really helping me through this process. I don't really have anyone to talk to about this and having different perspectives is great,

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Longer I practice, less I'm enthousiastic to advice practice aikido in different styles/federations. You see, each of them has his own ' system' where the way you practice, exercises, all small elements have a sense. Once you take it out of such contex, they became almost useless.
I.e. for Iwama folk going to Yamaguchi style ( vice versa) is a quite nonsense.

For practice other martial arts - this is other story. Take a 1year brake from aikido. Dont tell anybody and go practice where you like. After, take decision what next.
This is good advice. I understand where you are coming from. the advice about quitting for a year sounds like sound advice. I can get a different perspective without training Aikido for a while.

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
i have the opposite problem. the longer i practiced the more i wanted to practice with other styles. to me, each style originated from one of the deshi. each deshi had a picture/view of what O Sensei's aikido was. so essentially, each deshi had a piece of a jigsaw puzzle. the more styles i practice with, the more pieces that i have to be able to see a larger picture of O Sensei's aikido. for me, i don't like to just own one piece. i want to see the picture. of course, that's just me. other folks might view thing differently.

Another thing i looked at is that when i practiced with other styles, and if i can do what they do, then i know i have good mind-body control. if i can't, because i am stuck in my "style", then it means to me that i don't have good mind-body control. i got to be able to look at someone doing the technique and able to do it close to what they do. that is good mind-body control.
I think I can associate with Phi on this subject. I want to practice different arts and different styles of Aikido to get the "small pieces" to understand the whole picture, Even training from a different perspective can enlighten your training in your main art. Sometimes an "Aha" moment can result much faster training the same waza with a different teacher or training methodology. I don't want to be stuck in my "style" or attitude that my "style" is the best. I would like to train with everyone and anyone without having being felt like a traitor at my dojo. I admire Ikeda Sensei at Boulder Aikikai for doing seminars with different styles and organizations without prejudice. That would never happen at our dojo.

Quote:
Shareef Muhammad wrote: View Post
How do you KNOW? Have you asked why he/she does not want you to "crosstrain"?
Once a while back my Sensei explained to me as soon as a students name plaque was put on another dojos wall, their name would be taken off the dojo wall. He has never practiced anything but our style of Aikido. Also many of the senior students have told me that he looks down upon cross training and try to discourage it. There have been many other times where he has passively stated that this Aikido style is the only style and our "leader" is the true "leader" of Aikido. It is very clear in my eyes that he wants his students to do Aikido X and only Aikido X.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:24 PM   #41
Krystal Locke
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Pulling your name off the nafudakake isn't an explanation, it is a threat. And an empty one. Certainly not all dojos have them. Come cross train at my dojo. We love crosstraining, and we have no nafudakake.
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:00 AM   #42
Krystal Locke
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Run.

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Once a while back my Sensei explained to me as soon as a students name plaque was put on another dojos wall, their name would be taken off the dojo wall. He has never practiced anything but our style of Aikido. Also many of the senior students have told me that he looks down upon cross training and try to discourage it. There have been many other times where he has passively stated that this Aikido style is the only style and our "leader" is the true "leader" of Aikido. It is very clear in my eyes that he wants his students to do Aikido X and only Aikido X.
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Old 07-19-2013, 05:34 AM   #43
Malicat
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
Run.
I am going to have to second Krystal on this one. We have had students come through and then leave entirely, either for other dojos, or just out of martial arts entirely. I can firmly say that if any of them decided to come back, we would be thrilled to see them again, regardless of what they were doing. And we would never even think to ask if a student's name was on a board at any other dojo. That's just ridiculous.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:42 AM   #44
Dan Rubin
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

My first martial arts teacher had a saying that he repeated often: "I owe my teacher everything, my teacher owes me nothing." A pretty good saying, don't you think? FOR HIM!

You've already decided what you're going to do. In fact, you no longer have a choice. Tell your teacher that you're leaving, or just leave without telling him. But you can't stay there any longer.
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:23 AM   #45
Krystal Locke
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Dang, this brings up a lot of questions.

Why is this an issue after 15 years? Why not sooner?

You say the dojo's senior students say he tries to discourage stepping out of not only your style, but specifically, your organization. Two wtfs. At least. After 15 years of experience, you are not one of the senior students? Sure, there may be some 20-30 year students, but I would hope that 15 years would be enough to move you into the senior student group both socially and skills-wise. After 15 years, what rank are you? What rank is your sensei? Also, the sempai say he "tries" to discourage getting out of the house. Does he fail? Do other senior students go visit other schools? What happens then? Does he pout and stamp his foot, then teach them nikkyo wrong?

To what end does this sensei put these restrictions on his students? I can almost but not quite see suggesting that a beginner, actual noob, think carefully about jumping into a summer camp, a retreat, or seriously try an actually different style. The basis for comparison is slim, as is the experience to call bullshit, either way. The ability of a clear belt to protect his or herself in an unfamiliar training scenario may be undeveloped. But mostly, even all those reasons for staying home are bullshit.

A story. So, the other day my sensei was talking about his experience at the recent San Rafael camp. He was asked to do a demo, and he chose to not work one up ahead of time and to pick ukes from the general aikidoka pool present. One of the ukes was apparently someone with very little experience and training. She was a fine and excellent uke, she helped him show his stuff clearly and responsively, and she was profoundly encouraged that OMG a 6th degree black belt chose me! Being hauled out for a demo put on by someone she had never met and who had several decades more experience was a real gift for her. And for sensei. He couldn't stop talking about how well his demo went and how much fun it was. Noobs, everyone should get out of the house and go play with all the kids on the block. Basic aikido socialization.

Here's a question for you, Torn. Does your dojo do contracts?

Last edited by Krystal Locke : 07-19-2013 at 10:27 AM. Reason: Added a word or two to get more specific.....
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Old 07-22-2013, 09:02 AM   #46
allowedcloud
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

I know a few people that will train in multiple aikido dojos, sometimes on a weekly basis. However, all of them have a "home" dojo where they pay full membership dues and where their rank testing is done. When they go to the other dojo it is understood that they are guests...they get instruction and pay the daily mat fee but aren't considered members of that dojo and aren't expected to test for rank there. I know one dojo that is closed on a certain day of the week. On that day many of their students go to train at the dojo across town which is not even part of their organization.

So you may want to talk to your sensei and make him understand that though you might be training at the other place, that you have no intention of leaving his school and want to continue testing for rank with him (or the organizational shihan). He might be OK with it then.

If not, and if you really want to train at the other place - the advice given here might be useful (I've been down this road recently)- http://www.24fightingchickens.com/20...a-karate-club/

However it works out - I wish you the best with your taining.

Last edited by allowedcloud : 07-22-2013 at 09:16 AM. Reason: fixed typos
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Old 07-27-2013, 09:46 AM   #47
john2054
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

I will make another suggestion, one that apparently none of the sophisticated budoka on the site had the guts to call before, despite whatever they may have felt. This 'Torn' is infact a 'Troll', with no real experience in training in any sort of dojo for fifteen minutes, much less fifteen years. Through a careful ear for what has been going on on this site, they have been effectively able to imitate a martial artist, whereas in fact a good grasp over the English language, for use of deception, does not a good martial artist make. And never will be. Please Torn prove me wrong, provide us with the location and details of your classes/sensei (who at one point you weren't even sure if it was a 'he' or 'she')! lol. Yes provide us with the meat, otherwise your 'storytelling lessons' are soon to come to an end!

I have a red belt in judo and karate and a yellow belt in aikido. i choose where and when to pay my fees.
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Old 07-27-2013, 12:38 PM   #48
akiy
 
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Quote:
John Robinson wrote: View Post
I will make another suggestion, one that apparently none of the sophisticated budoka on the site had the guts to call before, despite whatever they may have felt. This 'Torn' is infact a 'Troll', with no real experience in training in any sort of dojo for fifteen minutes, much less fifteen years. Through a careful ear for what has been going on on this site, they have been effectively able to imitate a martial artist, whereas in fact a good grasp over the English language, for use of deception, does not a good martial artist make. And never will be. Please Torn prove me wrong, provide us with the location and details of your classes/sensei (who at one point you weren't even sure if it was a 'he' or 'she')! lol. Yes provide us with the meat, otherwise your 'storytelling lessons' are soon to come to an end!
On the contrary, John -- I would ask all anonymous posters to refrain from making their posts identifiable, as we're trying to maintain anonymity here in the "Anonymous" forum. We're trying to resolve issues that are sensitive to someone's identity, after all.

Likewise, I would ask people to keep an open mind (along with, as always in an Internet discussion forum, take a grain of salt) for the supposed veracity of what people post here in the "Anonymous" forum. For the most part, simply calling someone you do not believe to be a "troll" doesn't advance the discussion much. Let's try to keep to discussing the topic rather than the person behind the topic, please.

Thank you,

-- Jun

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Old 07-27-2013, 01:09 PM   #49
"Torn"
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Quote:
Dan Rubin wrote: View Post
My first martial arts teacher had a saying that he repeated often: "I owe my teacher everything, my teacher owes me nothing." A pretty good saying, don't you think? FOR HIM!

You've already decided what you're going to do. In fact, you no longer have a choice. Tell your teacher that you're leaving, or just leave without telling him. But you can't stay there any longer.
This is not as easy as it sounds. I do owe my Sensei everything for my current path in martial arts. He is a great person and has helped me with things outside the dojo as well. I do feel a debt that cannot be re payed. I feel my path in Aikido and budo is diverging from my Sensei's vision.

Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
Dang, this brings up a lot of questions.

Why is this an issue after 15 years? Why not sooner?

You say the dojo's senior students say he tries to discourage stepping out of not only your style, but specifically, your organization. Two wtfs. At least. After 15 years of experience, you are not one of the senior students? Sure, there may be some 20-30 year students, but I would hope that 15 years would be enough to move you into the senior student group both socially and skills-wise. After 15 years, what rank are you? What rank is your sensei? Also, the sempai say he "tries" to discourage getting out of the house. Does he fail? Do other senior students go visit other schools? What happens then? Does he pout and stamp his foot, then teach them nikkyo wrong?

To what end does this sensei put these restrictions on his students? I can almost but not quite see suggesting that a beginner, actual noob, think carefully about jumping into a summer camp, a retreat, or seriously try an actually different style. The basis for comparison is slim, as is the experience to call bullshit, either way. The ability of a clear belt to protect his or herself in an unfamiliar training scenario may be undeveloped. But mostly, even all those reasons for staying home are bullshit.

A story. So, the other day my sensei was talking about his experience at the recent San Rafael camp. He was asked to do a demo, and he chose to not work one up ahead of time and to pick ukes from the general aikidoka pool present. One of the ukes was apparently someone with very little experience and training. She was a fine and excellent uke, she helped him show his stuff clearly and responsively, and she was profoundly encouraged that OMG a 6th degree black belt chose me! Being hauled out for a demo put on by someone she had never met and who had several decades more experience was a real gift for her. And for sensei. He couldn't stop talking about how well his demo went and how much fun it was. Noobs, everyone should get out of the house and go play with all the kids on the block. Basic aikido socialization.

Here's a question for you, Torn. Does your dojo do contracts?
No contracts at our dojo. We have a small pool of Yudansha at our dojo also. I think that our Sensei wants to keep our style specific towards his teachers waza and our "leader's" vision of Aikido. I am a Sandan. At least two of our Yudansha practice with another independent Aikido group once and a while but do not openly discuss this in the dojo or with our Sensei. This "side" training is not talked about with others in the dojo. I am not sure if our Sensei knows but he would not say anything about it in public. Its not so much practicing with other Organization X Aikido dojo's. Its with practicing with Organization Z or Y that is looked down upon.

[quote=Joshua Landin;328335]I know a few people that will train in multiple aikido dojos, sometimes on a weekly basis. However, all of them have a "home" dojo where they pay full membership dues and where their rank testing is done. When they go to the other dojo it is understood that they are guests...they get instruction and pay the daily mat fee but aren't considered members of that dojo and aren't expected to test for rank there. I know one dojo that is closed on a certain day of the week. On that day many of their students go to train at the dojo across town which is not even part of their organization.

So you may want to talk to your sensei and make him understand that though you might be training at the other place, that you have no intention of leaving his school and want to continue testing for rank with him (or the organizational shihan). He might be OK with it then.

If not, and if you really want to train at the other place - the advice given here might be useful (I've been down this road recently)- http://www.24fightingchickens.com/20...a-karate-club/

This is the idea I was thinking about in training in other dojos or arts. In watching the actions of the other yudansha in our dojo, I am not sure if our Sensei will openly endorse crosstraining. I think another reason could be the fear of losing students to other groups or arts. Also influencing the mudansha is another fear. A possible mass exodus of students from the dojo I think is a fear on my Sensei's mind.

Quote:
John Robinson wrote: View Post
I will make another suggestion, one that apparently none of the sophisticated budoka on the site had the guts to call before, despite whatever they may have felt. This 'Torn' is infact a 'Troll', with no real experience in training in any sort of dojo for fifteen minutes, much less fifteen years. Through a careful ear for what has been going on on this site, they have been effectively able to imitate a martial artist, whereas in fact a good grasp over the English language, for use of deception, does not a good martial artist make. And never will be. Please Torn prove me wrong, provide us with the location and details of your classes/sensei (who at one point you weren't even sure if it was a 'he' or 'she')! lol. Yes provide us with the meat, otherwise your 'storytelling lessons' are soon to come to an end!

I have a red belt in judo and karate and a yellow belt in aikido. i choose where and when to pay my fees.
I understand where you are coming from and why you possibly wrote this in response. I am not a "Troll". I have a valid issue with my training and wanted to use this forum to get advice from the many experienced martial artists who frequent here. The use of a anonymous forum is to insure I can discuss my issue openly and honestly without being "Flagged". By providing my information, it would negate the use of the anonymous forum. It looks like you are a beginner in martial arts (I apologize I may be wrong). When you practice for an extended period of time (Specifically over a decade) with a dojo or Sensei you are in a relationship. Issues are not just black and white anymore. We as students may diverge from our original vision or our Sensei's ideas. This is a true and valid dilemma that many experienced martial artists may go through on the path to budo. I hope through my response you have a better understanding of where I am coming from.
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Old 07-29-2013, 11:08 AM   #50
Shadowfax
 
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Re: Aikido for all or one...

Quote:
John Robinson wrote: View Post
I will make another suggestion, one that apparently none of the sophisticated budoka on the site had the guts to call before, despite whatever they may have felt. This 'Torn' is infact a 'Troll', with no real experience in training in any sort of dojo for fifteen minutes, much less fifteen years. Through a careful ear for what has been going on on this site, they have been effectively able to imitate a martial artist, whereas in fact a good grasp over the English language, for use of deception, does not a good martial artist make. And never will be. Please Torn prove me wrong, provide us with the location and details of your classes/sensei (who at one point you weren't even sure if it was a 'he' or 'she')! lol. Yes provide us with the meat, otherwise your 'storytelling lessons' are soon to come to an end!

I have a red belt in judo and karate and a yellow belt in aikido. i choose where and when to pay my fees.
Perhaps after you have spent many years with one teacher you will understand the dilemma the OP is having and that it can be a real problem for some. The relationship with one's teacher is far more than just a business transaction.

Reading this thread makes me really appreciative of my senseis who have always encourage their students to broaden out and visit other dojo, even outside of our organization. But even after only four years with my teachers I can see how it would be very difficult to be in a situation where one wold like to meet other instructors and taste other styles but be held back by a sense of loyalty to a teacher who does not approve of that.

As much as I love and respect my teachers I think I would have a very hard time doing something that would threaten that relationship. In fact I really don't think that I could do it. But fortunately they are unlikely to put me in such a position.

OP it is not an easy decision you face. You have two options and each has a price. You have to decide which price you are willing to pay. It is unfair that you are in this situation. But much of life is unfair. I would ask you if you feel that the style you practice does or does not offer you enough opportunities for growth and exploration to last another 15 years or more to keep you satisfied.

If it does not. Then the choice is made. All that is left to do is to act on that choice and accept its price.
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