Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

aikido articles


dojo search
image gallery
links directory

book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews


rss feeds

Follow us on

Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Open Discussions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Thread Tools
Old 06-29-2013, 11:30 AM   #1
john2054's Avatar
Location: Derby
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 112
United Kingdom
Nelson Mandela

Hi everyone. I am a fifth kyu somewhat yellow under the gills belt.

My grandparents spent some time in the Apartheid prison system, and for that reason they are on the ex-prime minster's side. He is an old man now, and I think that he is dying. Surely the haters should just let him be? But that being said I have heard him called a terrorist, largely for crimes his ex-wife Winnie committed when he was still locked up. Can i gauge the general opinion over on aiki-web for someone to this day and age, remains one of my heroes of all time!

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 03:32 AM   #2
Dave de Vos
Dave de Vos's Avatar
Dojo: Shoryukai, Breda (aikikai) & Aiki-Budocentrum Breda (yoseikan)
Location: Baarle-Nassau
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 348
Re: Nelson Mandela

I wasn't even aware there were Nelson Mandela haters.
As far as I know, Nelson Mandela is greatly respected and admired internationally for his non-violent opposition to Apartheid (a Dutch word, to our embarrasment).
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 01:27 PM   #3
Lorien Lowe
Dojo: Northcoast Aikido
Location: California
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 289
Re: Nelson Mandela

Having read a Mandela autobiography some years ago, I think it's possible that he was a 'terrorist' in the material sense; he doesn't come right out and say it, but it certainly seems that he participated in sabotage at a minimum. He also gives a great deal of credit for the ending of the apartheid movement to his fellows-in-struggle, people who, from the outside, seem to have been largely forgotten as Mandela takes on a larger and larger figure. He's not a saint, and he's not the *only* saint - and he does not, himself, claim to be. That doesn't preclude him from being a very great man.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 04:37 PM   #4
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Boston
Location: Peterborough, NH
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 653
Re: Nelson Mandela

I'd call him a saint.

Understand, contrary to the modern misunderstanding, any saint comes with his baggage of sin. They aren't saints because they are sinless; they are saints because despite their sin they manifested God's grace on this earth.

Moving away from the religious language, whatever Mandela's past, he transcended the violence done to him to create the possibility, against all odds, of a viable future for his country.

Saints are made by God and only recognized by his church. When Mandela goes I'll light a candle for him. I doubt God will begrudge it.

Evolution doesn't prove God doesn't exist, any more than hammers prove carpenters don't exist.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 07:14 AM   #5
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,182
Re: Nelson Mandela

Various apartheid laws criminalized acts that most of us would consider basic civil rights, and defined as "terrorism" actions that were merely participation in the political process (see http://africanhistory.about.com/cs/a.../No83of67.htm). Technically, I suppose, Nelson Mandela is a "terrorist". I'd like to think that if I had been in South Africa at the time, I'd have been a "terrorist" too.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 11:24 AM   #6
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 816
United Kingdom
Re: Nelson Mandela

John Robinson wrote: View Post
... I have heard him called a terrorist, largely for crimes his ex-wife Winnie committed when he was still locked up.
Perhaps related to this: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...ndela_necklace

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 11:43 AM   #7
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,246
Re: Nelson Mandela

Nelson Mandela`s statement from the dock at the opening of the defence case in the Rivonia Trial

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2013, 09:17 AM   #8
john2054's Avatar
Location: Derby
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 112
United Kingdom
Re: Nelson Mandela

Thanks guys. (And gals). Thanks for the positive outcomes. I guess that I am so used to being 'trolled' at yahoo message boards/bullshido etc. that I had forgotten what it was like to discuss with rational adults. No I never considered him a terrorist. I'm not sure if i would post him up there with the saints, but a nobel peace award laureate i am sure!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2013, 12:56 PM   #9
Keith Larman
Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,604
Re: Nelson Mandela

I"m on vacation and feeling rather mellow so I realize I likely won't see replies to this for a while, so here goes... Not referring to Mandela specifically here, but I once had a philosophy professor define a terrorist as someone you didn't agree with while a freedom fighter is someone you do agree with. Of course this is a somewhat cynical and completely simplistic sort of statement, but there is a grain of truth underlying much of the comment. It isn't quite so cut and dried as most would like it to be and while the extreme positions are clearly indefensible, there is a lot of loaded material here.

In case anyone is interested in more scholarly approaches and attempts to frame the question more clearly and with some degree of intellectual and ethical rigor, might I suggest the writings of a fella named Donald Black. He has a very good work called "The Geometry of Terrorism". Another person some might get some insights from is a guy named Corlett (I think). Just search on Corlett and terrorism.

There is much to admire in a man like Mandela, especially later in life. However, early on he was also involved in bombing campaigns against the government. And while the government certainly was oppressive and revolt against such a government is certainly understandable, it isn't quite so easy to discount the loss of life of innocents. And defining terrorism in a case like this goes back to my old professor's comment. Sometimes a simple word like terrorism contains much too much baggage to be helpful. And often when we speak of individuals who have led long and complex lives, well sometimes it is even more difficult to speak objectively when the person in question can be both idolized and hated for different acts.

Okay, no need for the fireproof underwear, I'm on vacation and logging out...

Seriously, there are some good books out there. Donald Black in particular is a good resource.

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 09:10 PM   #10
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Re: Nelson Mandela

In a world of darkness...a shining light.

  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Benefit Seminar for Nelson Andujar of Miami Aikikai, 5/21 AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 05-03-2005 01:07 PM
Frank Ostoff and Jean-Rene Leduc in Nelson, BC AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 07-27-2004 10:36 AM
Frank Ostoff&Jean-Rene Leduc Nelson BC Marilyn Wolovick Seminars 0 07-22-2004 01:51 PM

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:36 PM.

vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate