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Old 08-07-2002, 12:57 AM   #1
javnitro
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11
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Dead The worst class ever!

Hi everyone,

I'm a new student with almost two months of practicing.Since I was the only beginner, basically, I have been practicing by myself, but yesterday a new student came and we began practicing together.
So, the Sempai began to teach us some movements. The problem is that of the hour he was with us, he used 45 minutes to talk and talk and talk and talk and talk about Aikido and things related, but basically pointless stuff; the other 15 minutes we just did some basic moves and that was it.
Then, the next hour, the new student and me were practicing. It results that the new student is a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and not only that, he also teaches this martial art. So, he began to lecture me about how to do the movements, even though he has never practice Aikido in his life. He kept pointing everything that I was doing wrong.
I don't know how to address this. In the first case, I think that if I am there is for training with my body; I don't mind having explanations, but I would like them to be shorter.
In the second case, the guy has to realize that it's not his class.
The problem is that I don't want to go to the Sensei and be the little brat that complaints for everything; and I also don't want to make enemies.
Some suggestions?
thanks
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Old 08-07-2002, 01:03 AM   #2
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Re: The worst class ever!

Quote:
Javier Martinez (javnitro) wrote:
Then, the next hour, the new student and me were practicing.
Hi Javier,

Does the above statement suggest that you as a "beginner" are not allowed to practice with regular students ?

You are only allowed to pair up with other beginners ?
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Old 08-07-2002, 01:17 AM   #3
javnitro
Join Date: May 2002
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Sorry, I didn't mean that. I have trained with the advanced students, but there are some exercises that we have to do as beginners. The basic, really basic movements (I'm such a beginner that I don't even know the name of such exercises)
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Old 08-07-2002, 01:30 AM   #4
memyselfandi
Location: East Coast
Join Date: Jul 2002
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I understand you're resentment, but the truth is that you really should at least listen to what this guy has to say (unless told otherwise by the sensei).

I have yet to start Aikido, but I have been in a situation while watching a class where I noticed that one of the students was having a problem with his technique. Because the sensei was working with someone else he spoke with his partner about his problem but discovered that he too was having difficulties. I, figuring that I was only their to watch, didn't say anything but having some (though not very much...about a months worth ) prior MA experience I was able to discern what his problem was as the technique was very similar to something that I had learned in another martial art. When the sensei came to help, he told him the very same thing I would have.

It might also be helpful to have someone else compare your technique to the sensei's as one cannot always tell if they are doing something wrong by themself.(mirrors can also help )

Well, that's just my $.02

PS - If neither of these are applicable in this situation, please feel free to ignore me
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Old 08-07-2002, 03:45 AM   #5
Genex
 
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Dojo: Warrington Seishin Kai
Location: Warrington, England
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Ki Symbol

memyselfandi duely ignored

only kidding you were just inviting that one.

i have a friend who could talk the ears of an elephant you can have some really good discussions with him if you have the time, but even a simple phone call to say are you goin the pub then? can take about 20 mins!

most of us have just got to the point where we say

"Dude, shut up and give me a straight answer, yes or no?" it can be a little the same in aikido he will talk about how a technique is done or improved when he does this i simply go for him thus causing him to use said technique and cutting him off in mid sentance but he has learned that there are time restraints and subsiquently has shortened his analysis for said reason.

maybe you could use this and when he's talking about the technique say

"oh like this" and use it on him at least you'll get some practice in, or maybe try to practice within earshot of sensei, that way when he starts yakking away sensei will say

"no your meant to be practicing this technique" and promply demonstrate on him ?

there my 0.02p worth

which coincidentily is actualy worth more then $0.02c at the moment LOL!

pete

like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick. - The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy on the Pan-galactic Gargleblaster!
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Old 08-07-2002, 05:23 AM   #6
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Unhappy

You should be practicing, with your body!

It was the teachers responsibility to stop the talking on the mat. There is one teacher on the mat, and unless instructed to do so by the teacher, no one else should be "teaching". I imagine that the tae kwan do fellow is so used to being the teacher that he just stepped into that role when he felt you were having a problem. It isn't appropriate however (one class?). There are rules of ettiquite that help stop this type of behavior on the mat, one of which is stated above.

In our dojo, new students work with the seniors until they are profecient enough with basic body movement and ukemi to not get hurt. The teacher watches everyone as closely as possible (okay, we also usually only have ten to twelve folks on the mat at one time, so that is easier than with big classes) and makes appropriate corrections (and only one or two things at a time, so as not to overwhelm the student). I guess we would never have a situation where a one-day on the mat student was "instructing" a two-month on the mat student, just by virtue of not working together yet at this stage of the training.

for my $.02, I would talk to one of the senior students in your dojo about how to handle it, as this might be a situation they have dealt with often before.

Best of luck, and keep practicing!
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Old 08-07-2002, 06:39 AM   #7
IrimiTom
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 63
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Quote:
I understand you're resentment, but the truth is that you really should at least listen to what this guy has to say (unless told otherwise by the sensei).
I beg to differ. The guy is probably doing it out of routine, but still, I think it's a classic beginner attitude, you do a technique 3 times, and hey, uke fell, so you "know" how to do it. The couple of times that I behaved like that, I think I responded best to a "yes, I'll try that" by the person whom I was "correcting", after which he/she did instead what sensei had asked. That got the point across to me easily and politely, and I felt like a big ass, I might add.
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Old 08-07-2002, 12:55 PM   #8
SeiserL
 
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IMHO, people really have troubles shifting roles from teacher to student and from one art to another. So, shut up and practice. ;-)

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 08-07-2002, 01:47 PM   #9
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
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Re: The worst class ever!

Quote:
Javier Martinez (javnitro) wrote:
1-So, the Sempai began to teach us...of the hour he was with us, he used 45 minutes to talk and talk...the other 15 minutes we just did some basic moves and that was it.

2-Then, the next hour, the new student and me...he began to lecture me about how to do the movements, even though he has never practice Aikido in his life.
Isn't this frustrating? I have no particular wisdom for 1; I avoid teachers who conduct class like this. (Indeed, there's a jujutsu school I'd like to attend but whenever I visit, the students are standing around and the teacher is blasting gas. Too bad for the fellow is quite good himself...)

2-Delicately, smiling, I ask if we can DISCUSS the issue after class and train now. Point of fact, it's rude on the part of students to be lecturing during a class; rude to the teacher and rude to the student thus importuned.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
------------------------
http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
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Old 08-07-2002, 01:55 PM   #10
memyselfandi
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Oh yeah...I guess I didn't read it very thoroughly, I kinda missed the "lecturing" part (though after some reflection it does seem to have been the point of the post ).

A little help is one thing...I can see how this guy would really get on your nerves
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Old 08-07-2002, 02:10 PM   #11
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
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Javier,

Just because someone has a shodan in TKD doesn't mean they have a right to lecture you about a technique newer to him than it is to you. If I start to get lectured by someone, I ignore it and try to do what sensei said. I ask them to stop and let me figure it out for myself. Or, if I'm really frustrated I ask the sensei for help -- that is what the instructor is there for. Fellow students, especially one day newbies, should not be instructing but listening and practicing.

Even if it is a very basic technique, still try and grab a senior student. These basic techniques are the fundamentals which are necessary to learn well to develop your foundation in aikido.

Sorry about the lecturing instructor, too. It can be annoying especially if they spend most of the class talking. Is this instructor you main instructor or are they an assitant? If they are an assitant, I suggest skipping that class. As a beginner, I enjoyed verbal explanations of techniques but they shouldn't take forever.

Last edited by giriasis : 08-07-2002 at 02:18 PM.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 08-07-2002, 03:53 PM   #12
guest1234
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Situation #1: look at it as an opportunity to practice sitting in seiza, and sometimes within the talking some important stuff gets said, but I do prefer more training to talking, even from sensei.

Situation #2: You might try the method already mentioned, a smile and request to talk AFTER class, perhaps with a rueful "dojo rule, train don't talk"...

if that fails, and sensei hasn't noticed and come to stop that silly behavior, it may be more apparent to him (and your partner) what is going on if you do what all good Aikido students do when being taught: respectfully sit to the side in seiza until the instructor is done talking Now THAT should make it clear to all that WAAYYYY too much talking is going on between you and your partner, and even point out who is moving their lips.
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Old 08-07-2002, 07:28 PM   #13
javnitro
Join Date: May 2002
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Talking

Thanks, for all the good advice. Specially the one about practicing sitting in seiza (damn is hard for my western ankles!)

About the other guy, well, today Sensei told him in a really polite way that he was not an instructor; he noticed without me even saying anything!!!
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Old 08-07-2002, 08:30 PM   #14
guest1234
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good to hear things worked out... funny how those senseis seem to see what is happening
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Old 08-07-2002, 10:13 PM   #15
Edward
Location: Bangkok
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Thailand
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Quote:
Javier Martinez (javnitro) wrote:
About the other guy, well, today Sensei told him in a really polite way that he was not an instructor; he noticed without me even saying anything!!!
Be careful, your sensei might be an aikiweb reader
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