Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Websites

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-09-2015, 06:29 PM   #1
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,154
United_States
Offline
Tokimune Takeda - Aiki Kuden and Hiden

New blog post, teachings from the oral transmission and personal notes of Sokaku Takeda's son Tokimune Takeda!

Tokimune Takeda - Aiki Kuden and Hiden - “The essential principles of Daito-ryu are Love and Harmony”.

Enjoy!

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2015, 11:20 AM   #2
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,173
Offline
Re: Tokimune Takeda - Aiki Kuden and Hiden

“The essential principles of Daito-ryu are Love and Harmony”
“The goal of spreading Daito-ryu is ‘Harmony and Love’,

I'd love to hear it directly from Sokaku Takeda toothless mouth Looks like copy-paste from M.Ueshiba teaching.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2015, 01:06 PM   #3
JW
 
JW's Avatar
Location: Chico CA USA
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 534
Offline
Re: Tokimune Takeda - Aiki Kuden and Hiden

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Looks like copy-paste from M.Ueshiba teaching.
Interesting possibility...

It's one of those things where some corroborating data can help rule it out. But you may be right, we can never be sure. One thing -- didn't the Sagawa dojo have similar stuff posted earlier? If so, maybe Takeda had some core message like this, which the different branches picked up from him.

I was thinking about Takeda-- he saw people do bad things-- from a lot of different angles (per Amdur's HIPS). If his known acts of public violence were indeed during events of unprovoked attack by others against him, maybe he really did develop a vision for a better world. He spent so much time teaching police-- maybe because he saw them as what they ideally are, a way to have society protected from those who make the world bad.

The fact that he had a temper means nothing to me in terms of his vision. In fact both his temper and his proposed vision for a better world may have been fostered by the same experiences of witnessing bad things.

Last edited by JW : 07-10-2015 at 01:10 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2015, 02:31 PM   #4
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,154
United_States
Offline
Re: Tokimune Takeda - Aiki Kuden and Hiden

Quote:
Jonathan Wong wrote: View Post
Interesting possibility...

It's one of those things where some corroborating data can help rule it out. But you may be right, we can never be sure. One thing -- didn't the Sagawa dojo have similar stuff posted earlier? If so, maybe Takeda had some core message like this, which the different branches picked up from him.

I was thinking about Takeda-- he saw people do bad things-- from a lot of different angles (per Amdur's HIPS). If his known acts of public violence were indeed during events of unprovoked attack by others against him, maybe he really did develop a vision for a better world. He spent so much time teaching police-- maybe because he saw them as what they ideally are, a way to have society protected from those who make the world bad.

The fact that he had a temper means nothing to me in terms of his vision. In fact both his temper and his proposed vision for a better world may have been fostered by the same experiences of witnessing bad things.
The Sagawa Dojo scroll appears here.

It may be that Tokimune Takeda was attempting to capitalize on the popularity of Morihei Ueshiba's Aikido.

On the other hand, if we take Tokimune at face value then it may be that the basic elements of Morihei Ueshiba's thought were already in place rather than being a completely original creation.

There's more of Tokimune's notes on his father's teaching yet to come, with material that points to a much deeper involvement with esoteric Buddhism, especially Shingon, than was previously believed. There are also a series of books published in Japan that argues for that point of view and suggests that there may be some foundation for Tokimune's statement.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2015, 09:08 AM   #5
oisin bourke
 
oisin bourke's Avatar
Dojo: Muden Juku, Ireland
Location: Kilkenny
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 331
Ireland
Offline
Re: Tokimune Takeda - Aiki Kuden and Hiden

Quote:
Jonathan Wong wrote: View Post
Interesting possibility...

It's one of those things where some corroborating data can help rule it out. But you may be right, we can never be sure. One thing -- didn't the Sagawa dojo have similar stuff posted earlier? If so, maybe Takeda had some core message like this, which the different branches picked up from him.

I was thinking about Takeda-- he saw people do bad things-- from a lot of different angles (per Amdur's HIPS). If his known acts of public violence were indeed during events of unprovoked attack by others against him, maybe he really did develop a vision for a better world. He spent so much time teaching police-- maybe because he saw them as what they ideally are, a way to have society protected from those who make the world bad.

The fact that he had a temper means nothing to me in terms of his vision. In fact both his temper and his proposed vision for a better world may have been fostered by the same experiences of witnessing bad things.
One thing worth noting is That Sokaku stressed that daito ryu (or the inner "oshiki uchi" techniques at any event) were essentially defensive in nature and should not be used offensively. They also should be measured: the idea was to render an assailant so that they were no longer a threat Straight off, you have an ethical stance, or one that at least cultivates a certain attitude or character.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2015, 05:54 PM   #6
JW
 
JW's Avatar
Location: Chico CA USA
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 534
Offline
Re: Tokimune Takeda - Aiki Kuden and Hiden

Quote:
Oisin Bourke wrote: View Post
One thing worth noting is That Sokaku stressed that daito ryu (or the inner "oshiki uchi" techniques at any event) were essentially defensive in nature and should not be used offensively...
Yes, and the Sagawa scroll suggests the same sentiment.
Like Chris said, if we go at face value, the idea of "being peaceful" goes back to Takeda or before. I guess the thing to wonder is: is this all just words that budo people are "supposed" to say? In some circles you have to recite the party line to be seen as legit.

As I said, I personally tend to think the whole DR lineage is indeed an effort to produce a budo that is guided by the desire for an end to violence. But there is plenty of room for argument there. For instance, what are the kakete techniques doing in the Takumakai if the art is for defence only? I think it is explainable (especially at the 1:10 ratio that Mori cites) but it does muddy the waters.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2015, 01:52 AM   #7
oisin bourke
 
oisin bourke's Avatar
Dojo: Muden Juku, Ireland
Location: Kilkenny
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 331
Ireland
Offline
Re: Tokimune Takeda - Aiki Kuden and Hiden

Quote:
Jonathan Wong wrote: View Post
Yes, and the Sagawa scroll suggests the same sentiment.
Like Chris said, if we go at face value, the idea of "being peaceful" goes back to Takeda or before. I guess the thing to wonder is: is this all just words that budo people are "supposed" to say? In some circles you have to recite the party line to be seen as legit.

As I said, I personally tend to think the whole DR lineage is indeed an effort to produce a budo that is guided by the desire for an end to violence. But there is plenty of room for argument there. For instance, what are the kakete techniques doing in the Takumakai if the art is for defence only? I think it is explainable (especially at the 1:10 ratio that Mori cites) but it does muddy the waters.
Well, I see the oshiki uchi techniques as the exemplar of this defensive use of "aiki". It's clear that Sokaku added a large body of techniques to this. he's referred to as the "chuko no so" which is translated as "the founder of the renaissance". This was a common term in the late Edo/early meiji periods to refer to people who took the core of a traditional ryu (be it martial arts, dance whatever) and modified it to make it more relevant to current demands.

Oh, and the idea of budo/bujutsu being arts of cultivating peace and character is fairly old.In fact, Karl Friday (I believe) has argued this is the driving force behind a lot of ryu, not martial efficiency. At any rate, a lot of ryu certainly have relevant teachings

Last edited by oisin bourke : 07-16-2015 at 01:58 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 05:04 PM   #8
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,154
United_States
Offline
Re: Tokimune Takeda - Aiki Kuden and Hiden

Now available in Romanian, courtesy of Aikido Jurnal. The original English version is available on the Aikido Sangenkai blog.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Santa Cruz Aikido Summer Retreat - Join us welcoming Motomichi Anno Sensei and others back to Santa Cruz!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Consideration of Aikido Practice within the Context of Internal Training Ellis Amdur Columns 71 03-21-2013 08:15 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10 Peter Goldsbury Columns 200 02-04-2009 06:45 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:29 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2015 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2015 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate