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Old 11-08-2012, 11:04 PM   #101
David Orange
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Re: What is "IP" discussion of Internal power.

Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
Ok, so here's a question, flat out, straight up. Do the IP folk think Hiroshi Ikeda sensei has it or a part of it? (We'll leave Lee's protestations of having better breathing aside for the moment...) He's visiting in December, he's talked about internal stuff the last few times he's been here, can I save myself a chunk of change by cornering him and getting some of the goods from him?
Knowing very little of Ikeda Sensei, I can only go by what I've heard--that he is working with IP. I can't say to what extent, but it seems he's going that way. But it also seems that it's "aikido first" with him and you might not get as "pure" a take on IP itself. Again, I don't know much about him. Just what I've read and some video clips I've seen.

Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
I'd still find another seminar to go to, but no reason not to take advantage of an opportunity that is right in my lap.
Absolutely. I'd just say to be sure to meet up with Dan or Mike or Ark or Forrest or someone with a reputation for solid IP in itself.

Good luck.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:10 AM   #102
phitruong
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Re: What is "IP" discussion of Internal power.

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Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
Ok, so here's a question, flat out, straight up. Do the IP folk think Hiroshi Ikeda sensei has it or a part of it?.
yes. before he started the internal stuffs, his aikido was superb. he got a set of 4 videos that you can judge for yourself. when he started in the internal stuffs, he's no longer focus on techniques. i have been to various aikido seminars with other aikido schools from other organizations. most if not all usually the teacher shown various versions of aikido techniques. i have learned umpteen different ways to do ikkyo. seminar with Ikeda sensei is quite different. he doesn't teach technique. he teaches what make techniques work on anybody. years back, his explanations were very hard to understand. over the years, his explanations got better (either that or i have better understanding after exposure to IP crowd). his english isn't sufficient to explain the details of his demonstration. i wrote a translation table somewhere on aikiweb. when he said technique, it meant IP. when he said technique movement, it meant the regular aikido technique like shigonage, ikkyo and so on. he will say he's teaching technique. pay attention when he said he's moving his inside. it meant hara/dantien movement which is the foundation of IP. for example, in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St7I0M2fx1c when he said your center (he used to say your inside) moves 360 (you need to extrapolate that to mean in spherical coordinate, as in anywhere on the 3D sphere).

i don't know what other folks experience were, but i will give you mine. for years, i went to Ikeda sensei seminars, listened to his explanations, took ukemi from him, but could not for the life of me understand his teaching or even remotely doing things the way he did. interestingly enough, i practiced with folks who went the his seminars for longer than i had, but they didn't feel or did things remotely like him, and i am not talking about kyu rank folks. i was quite frustrated to say the least, but he's my shihan and he's one of my role models in aikido. so during the heated debate on IP/aiki a few years back on aikiweb, i went out and attended workshops with IP folks. they did stuffs that feel like Ikeda sensei and then some. luckily they were also native english speaker and could explain in details on what they did and how to train for it which is much more important. you heard the IP crowd mentioned about lots of solo training, it was and is. now i understand Ikeda sensei perfectly and feel exactly what he did to me when i am uke for him. before, i knew he broke my balance, but didn't know how he did it. now i do. this is important. your body has to change in order to feel it. this is the foundation of "stealing technique" method. he won't tell you about his solo practices. i pestered him about it so he told me a couples, for example, doing push hand with the office chair or direct jin to go back and forth between my left hand and my right hand (he let me touch his arms and did it slowly so i can feel it). he will relate his teaching back to aikido movements. he said he gave you ideas and it was.

one time i asked him when does he practice his stuffs, since he spent lots of time traveling all over the places teaching seminars. he smiled and said "i was practicing".

so if your interest in a new or different way of doing ikkyo or shihonage and so on, then don't bother to go to his seminar. if you interest in how to make those aikido movements work, regardless of who your uke, then go. also, he's quite funny which is very enjoyable learning.

btw, he got a bunch of DVDs on internal stuffs. you could only get them at his seminars. i asked him one time why he didn't sell it on bujin site. he said folks watch his videos and thought what he did was fake and he didn't want to do that. essentially, try before buy. and yes, i got most of his DVDs. in return, i also know how he wants his coffee. i had to contract out to the CIA, FBI, NSA and all the alphabet soups. took years to get the right intelligent. they couldn't get it. i resorted to torture and water boarding was not enough. i asked him how he wanted his coffee at a starbuck drive thru. and no, i ain't telling. you have to torture me to get it.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:57 AM   #103
Eric in Denver
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Re: What is "IP" discussion of Internal power.

Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
Ok, so here's a question, flat out, straight up. Do the IP folk think Hiroshi Ikeda sensei has it or a part of it? (We'll leave Lee's protestations of having better breathing aside for the moment...) He's visiting in December, he's talked about internal stuff the last few times he's been here, can I save myself a chunk of change by cornering him and getting some of the goods from him?

I'd still find another seminar to go to, but no reason not to take advantage of an opportunity that is right in my lap.

And, yes, I know I am poking at a hornet's nest. PM if you want. The whole point of this thread is that it is really hard to get an honest reliable opinion.....
I think Ikeda is a great segue into this kind of training for aikido folks. I have been to one of his seminars and have been up to Boulder for his Wednesday Internals class a few times, and I think it is a great intro. I don't know if it is more than a great intro because I really, really suck at this stuff and haven't gotten far enough along to be able to speak to it any more than that.

The other reason I say intro is because from my exposure to the IS paradigm, it requires a huge amount of solo work, and Ikeda doesn't seem to teach those exercises, at least not publicly. Or, at least not to me
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:13 AM   #104
Chris Li
 
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Re: What is "IP" discussion of Internal power.

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
his english isn't sufficient to explain the details of his demonstration. i wrote a translation table somewhere on aikiweb. when he said technique, it meant IP. when he said technique movement, it meant the regular aikido technique like shigonage, ikkyo and so on. he will say he's teaching technique. pay attention when he said he's moving his inside. it meant hara/dantien movement which is the foundation of IP. for example, in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St7I0M2fx1c when he said your center (he used to say your inside) moves 360 (you need to extrapolate that to mean in spherical coordinate, as in anywhere on the 3D sphere).
I think that the last time I saw Ikeda was in the late 1980's, so I can't comment much on the IP direction he's been taking, except to say that I've heard similar comments from other people - his explanations could still be clearer. For that reason, you may have a better time understanding Dan, Mike, or even Sam (who's English also isn't 100%, but has developed a very clear framework for explaining things).

OTOH, Ikeda was always one of my favorite Aikido folks, both in terms of what he could do and in terms of personality.

Allen Beebe's in your area - and he and his guys have been working on this stuff enough to give you a window into it, I'm sure.

Best,

Chris

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Old 11-09-2012, 12:03 PM   #105
Janet Rosen
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Re: What is "IP" discussion of Internal power.

Krystal, YES it is worth your while to do the seminar w/ Ikeda Sensei - in terms of timing, you might "get more" out of it were you to have one session/seminar w/ a non-aikido IP/IS person, but since what Ikeda Sensei does is apply it within aikido, his seminars are for me about the best aikido seminars to attend these days because they focus on aikido partner practices that encompass a lot of IP/IS.

Janet Rosen
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:06 PM   #106
Krystal Locke
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Re: What is "IP" discussion of Internal power.

Great, thanks y'all. I never miss Ikeda's visits anyway, but I will use the opportunity to look at the internal stuff he's bringing. Maybe I'll buy the dvds this time.

Oh, and thanks for the suggestion about Allen Beebe. He's still a 4 hour drive away, but I can look and plan for a seminar. Thanks.

Last edited by Krystal Locke : 11-09-2012 at 12:08 PM. Reason: Added a little info that didnt deserve a whole new post
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:42 AM   #107
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Re: What is "IP" discussion of Internal power.

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Hunter Lonsberry wrote: View Post
My japanese is better than my chinese (I speak chinese at home as my inlaws don't speak english), but I will see if I can get a translation for you tonight.
Hi Hunter, That would be very kind of you.
Cheers,
Josh
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:47 PM   #108
HL1978
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Re: What is "IP" discussion of Internal power.

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Josh Philipson wrote: View Post
Hi Hunter, That would be very kind of you.
Cheers,
Josh
I havent been ignoring this, I hope to get some help with the translation soon.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:03 AM   #109
john.burn
 
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Re: What is "IP" discussion of Internal power.

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
when he said technique, it meant IP. when he said technique movement, it meant the regular aikido technique like shigonage, ikkyo and so on. he will say he's teaching technique. pay attention when he said he's moving his inside. it meant hara/dantien movement which is the foundation of IP.
Hi Phi,

He actually stated this exact thing in the UK earlier this year. He said that he calls internal work technique. I think his explanations now make so much sense (but I have the benefit of having met Mike Sigman).

I can't believe you took him to Starbucks and lived to tell the tale! It was Blue Mountain all the way in the UK .

Best Regards,
John

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Old 11-15-2012, 07:43 AM   #110
thisisnotreal
 
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Re: What is "IP" discussion of Internal power.

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
he won't tell you about his solo practices.
That is too bad.
Why, you think?
How does peoples get better if not directly taught the work?
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:09 AM   #111
john.burn
 
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Re: What is "IP" discussion of Internal power.

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Josh Philipson wrote: View Post
That is too bad.
Why, you think?
How does peoples get better if not directly taught the work?
He said that he will not feed us all like baby birds and that we have to figure out some of these things for ourselves - he can only tell you how he uses his body - not necessarily your body.

If you actually ask him if this or that is a good way to train yourself he'll give you his opinion, also, the last few seminars in Europe I've been on he has given solo examples. Some will be on the UK seminar DVD - he demonstrated a few.

Best Regards,
John

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Old 11-15-2012, 08:39 AM   #112
phitruong
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Re: What is "IP" discussion of Internal power.

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John Burn wrote: View Post
If you actually ask him if this or that is a good way to train yourself he'll give you his opinion, also, the last few seminars in Europe I've been on he has given solo examples. Some will be on the UK seminar DVD - he demonstrated a few.
yup. this is where sigman and others come in. they provided the basic frameworks. i was glad that i ran into those guys. wish it could have happen sooner, so i didn't spent years in frustration.

john, speaking of DVD. how do i go about getting my hands on that DVDs? do i need to hop over the pond and twist your arms?

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:54 AM   #113
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Re: What is "IP" discussion of Internal power.

Keep an eye on our website - should have been finialised the other week but I wasn't happy once it was compressed down from the HD footage to DVD so it should be finalised this Sunday all being well.

Happy to post it to the US etc.

Best Regards,
John

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