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Old 07-16-2002, 02:59 AM   #26
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Am I a "bad" Aikidoka?

Quote:
cbrf4zr2 wrote:
So I'm testing for 2nd Kyu in 2 weeks and some change, and I've been doing some more reading of posts and stories and how other Aikido practioners think and act - or at least how they say they do. And I'm reading stories about how a "true Aikidoka" would run away, would play dead, would be a pacifist, basically it says to me they would do "nothing" that they spend doing in countless hours of training. I then see more re-enforcement of other chiming in with "Yes - that's true Aikido," or other variants which lend creedence that in Aikido you should always run away, or feign injury, or the like. I look at that and say, "What's the point in even physically training?" Why not just take up some non physical training that prepares you to recognize situations to just run away or any of the other previous examples?

I know how to run, I know how to lay on the ground and play dead. If this is Aikido - why am I spending $60/month and training hour upon countless hour, if "real Aikido" is being a giant wuss?

I took Aikido so I don't have to run away, so I could stand up for myself, etc...

Does it make me a "bad" Aikidoka because I won't run away if someone attacks me or leads on that they might?

There is a quote taken from the Aikido Journal Interview with Takamura Yukiyoshi, Aikido Journal 117, Fall 1999

Quote:
Remember that most people who call themselves martial artists are nothing of the sort. Most dojos are not martial arts dojos either. They are glorified social clubs thriving in an environment of emotional stimulation which is heightened by a false or extremely limited perception of danger. When real danger shows itself in such a dojo, the participants run for cover. In a real dojo the participants run towards the conflict.
I would recommend reading the whole interview as Takamura Sensei had some very interesting things to say about what non-violence and being a warrior really means.
Aikido Journal Article

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
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Old 07-16-2002, 04:36 AM   #27
erikmenzel
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Re: Am I a "bad" Aikidoka?

Quote:
cbrf4zr2 wrote:
"What's the point in even physically training?" Why not just take up some non physical training that prepares you to recognize situations to just run away or any of the other previous examples?
ALthough some people disagree with this, physical training in aikido is the way to learn to recognize and evaluate situations.
Quote:
I know how to run, I know how to lay on the ground and play dead. If this is Aikido - why am I spending $60/month and training hour upon countless hour, if "real Aikido" is being a giant wuss?
Maybe you could just try to have fun.

Quote:
I took Aikido so I don't have to run away, so I could stand up for myself, etc...
Although this is a good motive to start it also has some (mental) pitfalls.
Reminds me of friend (a nice and really not stupid girl) I know. She was afraid to walk in a certain street at night. A really bad street one would avoid at night. To get home at night she took a detour using well lit and police supervised streets.
Because she felt scared at night she took some selfdefense classes and after 10 sessions she felt she didnt need to be affraid and started to use the unsafe route.
All her friends tried to explain how unwise this was but she said she took selfdefense classes because then she didnt have to run away.
Only after having had to run for her life and being safed by 6 police officers she returned to using the safe route.

Quote:
Does it make me a "bad" Aikidoka because I won't run away if someone attacks me or leads on that they might?
Depends. Are you excluding other options? Could you have avoided trouble in the first place?
Sometimes just the willingness to go into physical contact is the spark needed for violance.

Erik Jurrien Menzel
kokoro o makuru taisanmen ni hirake
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Old 07-16-2002, 04:48 AM   #28
kmarie
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Straight Face

I took Aikido so I don't have to run away, so I could stand up for myself, etc...

I'm very new to the world of Aikido and Martial arts, and began for the same reasons. I'm a young female that lives in a very bad part of a big city (tend to get verbally harassed too often, but nothing more even though I'm often walking alone...even late at night). One thing that i've learned from Aikido (and living in the city) is to BE AWARE OF YOUR SURRONDINGS!! Running away from a situation sounds fine and dandy in this forum, but realisticly I think it could possibly put you more in danger. People prey on the weak.

You shouldn't ever have to be in a situation where you have to run (hopefully), just be aware who is walking behind you (if their pace quickens), look ahead/around you for dark alleys, etc. This stuff in instintual in me,but not in many others unfortunately. Many women are raped in my neighborhood, and unfortunatley in many cases they were jogging while wearing headphones. Be aware, and show confidence. If someone is stalking you, look at them with an evil eye...if that doesn't deter them, go into a mini-market or something for awhile. Prevent the situation these ways, not by letting yourself become a victim and trying to run away. People can unharness a horrible amount of energy and violence (especially when they are trying to rob you for $$ to get their fix), sad but true. I see horrible violence everyday, but these people tend to prey on the weak and ignorant (or should I say clueless (lots of lost tourists)). One other point...most of the attacks in my neighborhood are with guns (and lately caustic chemicals)...you really can't run away from that now can you...or perform expert Aikido if a gun is put to your head or your face is sprayed with a caustic chemical. BE AWARE.

I would love to someday be so profiecient at Aikido that I could severly disable anyone that came in my path, fortunatly or unfortunatly that will take many many years (even though often strangers make comments that make me want to try out my skills), but the best thing for survival (in my opinion) is avoidance (before it gets to the point of having to run away).

Kmarie
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Old 07-16-2002, 04:50 AM   #29
mike lee
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A man's got to take a good hard look in the mirror once in awhile and decide if he likes what he sees.
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Old 07-16-2002, 05:34 AM   #30
davoravo
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What are you gonna do if you don't?

As someone's siggie says The Path is Long. "Best not start. Once start best finish."

David McNamara
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Old 07-16-2002, 06:44 AM   #31
ChristianBoddum
 
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Hi !
I once had five bikertypes running after me,
after trying to cunn me in to a fight,a little
late but soon enough I realised I had to run ,so I ran and they followed,I was thinking while running what do I do if they catch up with me,
thankfully one by one they gave up and they never tried again.
They used tactics to get me close and I am a curious nature,almost got me.
At another time same street,I was passing by what sounded like someone harming a dog,
turned out to be a domestic brawl,
as the ones around me turned and left the scene,I wanted to make the last leaving,
someone came down a staircase quickly,came right at me and BAM ! right on the jaw,
so I left too,the reason I didn't go down
I guess is because I was relaxed and "absorbed" the punch,but non the less,stupid
me and my curiosity,I couldn't kiss for a month - it was a great punch !
So for me running is great and you can think
while running - what a combination !
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Old 07-16-2002, 09:02 AM   #32
SeiserL
 
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No, IMHO, you are not a "bad" Aikidoka. Aikido is a "martial" art. I personal train for practical application and technical proficiency. I may walk away, but I won't run.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 07-16-2002, 09:34 AM   #33
Bruce Baker
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Your training makes you more aware of handling situations. It gives you the information you need to assess the situation. To stand and fight, or to retreat, and run ... as some have expressed. Use your knowledge to protect your short life. That is the purpose of your training.
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Old 07-16-2002, 02:56 PM   #34
Don_Modesto
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Quote:
cbrf4zr2 wrote:
Mugger comes up to me with knife - asks for wallet. I choose not to run, and confront him, and I end up unhurt and retaining my wallet. Am I a bad Aikidoka because I didn't run away when I could have?
"I end up unhurt" There defintely should be an "if" in that sentence.

Not bad, foolish.

How much is in your wallet?
How much does the judge award him for injuries you inflicted? (sic--read up on this; it's a real consideration)
How much does the judge award for wrongful death?
How much are your hospital bills?

More importantly, what is the permanent damage to you? (We have a gentleman--I use the word precisely, he is--who chose to fight a man with a knife; one of his fingers is premanently crooked into his palm from the cut he received to connective tissue.)

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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Old 07-16-2002, 03:57 PM   #35
opherdonchin
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I just wanted to say how much wisdom I thought there was in KMarie's post. It's a beautiful example of learning to see the options that are neither running nor fighting, and learning to see them has been the part of AiKiDo I have most benefited from.

Opher

Yours in Aiki
Opher
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Old 07-17-2002, 05:14 PM   #36
Deb Fisher
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As a strong proponent of 'running' earlier in this thread, I have to agree with Opher that KMarie's post is much more aligned with what actually happens.

When I said run, I wasn't very clear that I mean avoid conflict. I totally agree that awareness is the easiest and most effective way to see it coming and make running unnecessary.

But of course, there are people crazy enough to attempt attacking a bad target... and I still say run if that's what it comes to.

Peace,

Deb

Deb Fisher
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Old 07-17-2002, 06:49 PM   #37
Thalib
 
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If I understand correctly, I'm still basically a beginner at this, Aikido is not about avoiding conflict. Through the philosophy I've learned so far, conflict will occur one way or another, it is part of nature. The universe or nature has its own way of dealing with conflict/friction.

When conflict/friction occurs, we deal with it, the best way without any further destruction. For example, in katate-dori-tenkan, one cannot push or pull one's way out of it, that will make the conflict or friction even worse. But instead one lets the arm held making sure that there is no threat coming out from oneself that could worsen the friction. Then go (relatively) the same direction as that friction, by tenkan, but leading that direction or to any other direction, not being lead by others.

In Aikido, one leads the conflict to one's advantage and for the good of others including the attacker. Turning one's back on the attacker would only mean one will get stabbed in the back by the attacker.

But, Aikido is also about the mind and the spirit, if one believes by turning one's back or running or walking away from the attacker is the best solution for others, the attacker, and oneself, then by any means, do it. On the other hand, if one believes that confronting the attacker is the best solution, then do so. Wether to turn one's back, or to confront, do not do it with doubt, as it would be fatal. Also, in both cases, one must accept death for oneself will be the outcome.

When I have to die by the sword, I will do so with honor.
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Old 07-18-2002, 05:06 AM   #38
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I think you people are talking and thinking about the possibilities too much, you cannot possibly hope to understand every possible violent situation by intelectualising things. You can debate about the physics of the attack and the position of the body and all those things, and you can train for all those things but when it comes to crunch time, everything you learn falls away and you have to go with instinct.

If you are at the level where you are reasoning that if someone stabs you with a knife like this then you can do something like this... etc... then you have not internalised things enough yet.

Train more, talk less.
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Old 07-18-2002, 07:46 AM   #39
Harms
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I read something on http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/ that I would like to quote "If he didn't think he could win, he wouldn't be there". So the safest thing to do is to avoid fighting. So what can aikido do for you? Just like the other said, being aware of your surroundings (onagi anyone? ) and not showing fear has probably allready gotten you away from a fight. And if the person really want's to fight and you don't have any choice then aikido will help you.

It might not be unaikido to fight but I do belive it is unaikido to start a fight or fight if you could have avoided it.

We are here to create harmony and it's only the ones that doesn't get that that we are allowed to create pain in



/Harms
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Old 07-23-2002, 04:02 PM   #40
sleepyshark
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Sometimes running is the only correct choice. But to say that it's ALWAYS the right choice ... what a way to live. For those who advise Edward to run ... is that what you tell your children? At life's challenges, run.

When running is not an option, those who stay are either fools or heros. But at least they are facing their terrors. their fates. What if the passengers of the Pittsburg plane had decided to "run" and not confront their terror, "terrorists"?

If we train for years, only to run, what are we receiving from our training? Studying the "softer" side of Aikido and trying to achieve enlightenment is well and good, but if that's all you want, why not study Buddhism? Why waste the martial aspect of Aikido?

We are being trained to defend ourselves and others. We have a responsibility to act. Ideally and firstly, with words. To calm the situation to a non-violent end. If that doesn't work, take the negotiating to the next level, physical communicating. That does not mean intentionally increase the threat level, but be prepared to respond to an increased threat level.

we are martial artists, not dancers or pacifists. If some of us are dancers or pacifists, why train how to hurt people? Being afraid or concerned that your skills will not work is one thing, but to belay all of your training because of a moral imperative not to hurt another human being flies in the face of training in a martial art.

Why do we as aikidoka feel we are morally superior to aggression? Life gives you several options. Sometimes run, sometimes watch, sometimes fight.

I, personally, train for several reasons. Most spiritual, some physical. But I do take my training seriously, striving constantly to improve. To be more balanced, to throw more powerfully, to change techniques if resisted, to have a wide technique vocabulary. Why? Because one day I might have to use it.
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Old 07-24-2002, 09:07 AM   #41
Kevin Wilbanks
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"Mugger comes up to me with knife - asks for wallet. I choose not to run, and confront him, and I end up unhurt and retaining my wallet. Am I a bad Aikidoka because I didn't run away when I could have?"

If you are considering challenging armed assailants on the street at the rank of 2nd kyu, I think you need a reality check. The way most practice Aikido in the US, it is not even close to a street-ready martial art, especially not after only a few years. Even if it were, confronting someone with a weapon in the street over a few dollars and replacing a few cards is the height of foolishness.

I know a cop who always carries a Glock 9mm with him, even when he is out of uniform. He says if someome mugged him he would throw the wallet one direction and run in the other - to the nearest phone and call the police with an accurate account of the incident. This from a man who is highly trained with his weapon and has it on him.

I recently started taking JKD at a school run by the head self-defense instructor for the Jacksonville Police - also a Vale Tudo competitor. They train seriously there in Muay Thai, BJJ, JKD, and even have classes expressly for those entering no-holds-barred fighting competitions. The range of skills, fitness levels, speed, and amount of force they apply to their techniques were a real eye opener to me. Aikido alone is far from a street-ready martial art. Visit such a place for a few hours, and it might deflate some of your quasi-suicidal delusions.

K.
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Old 07-24-2002, 01:50 PM   #42
Thalib
 
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Street-ready martial arts?

There is no such thing.

Fighting arts such as have been mentioned above are far from street ready, many of them have the delusions that they are though. Especially BJJ, which is only one-on-one and ring ready.

No in-dojo training is street ready. People that want street-ready, they go into the streets and pick fights no matter if they have guns, knives, or their posse, now that's truly street-ready.

Even military training they have in the army is not battle/war-ready. The only way to gain that is through experience in the battlefield.

One is only taught how to learn, the rest is up to experience.

When I have to die by the sword, I will do so with honor.
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Old 07-24-2002, 05:11 PM   #43
Kevin Wilbanks
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Well, philosophically speaking, no martial art or combination thereof may be 'street-ready', but I was speaking practically. Philosophically speaking, there is no guarantee that I will be able to eat my breakfast tomorrow morning, or that I even exist. When I said 'street-ready' I was not talking about some rarified level of hypothetical invincibility. By that standard, even someone with lots of 'real' fighting experience cannot be truly ready for the next encounter.

Aikido alone, the way I have seen it trained, has glaring gaps: no ground-fighting, no preemptive attacks, no cultivation of wide-open sparring experience including multiple rapid attacks and continuing through pain... I could go on. Most Aikidoka don't even hold their hands high enough to reasonably expect to protect their head against standard boxing-style punches, or know anything about protecting their knees.

The guys I'm talking about train in all ranges, kick-boxing and grappling. I'm not talking about cocky BJJ-only types. Most importantly, they spar regularly with few rules at an intensity level where bruises, contusions, and serious pain occur regularly and more serious injuries are not uncommon. Many also participate in national, no-holds-barred competitions (vale-tudo). To suggest there is no difference between the 'street-readiness' of such a person, and the average Aikido-only student is absurd.

I think Aikido is a great art - good for learning many things, and a worthwhile way to spend time. However, if one's objective is to challenge muggers or fare well in real street fights, I think it is the wrong place to look.

K.
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Old 07-24-2002, 05:56 PM   #44
Thalib
 
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I believe we had the discussion about the practicality of Aikido in real-life situation, I think we even had several discussion. This is now being another one of course.

In Aikido, one studies the principle of the art. Unlike many other martial arts who intensifies on techniques. Techniques without principles are just shells that are easily cracked. One should learn why it was done the way it should, not just how.

I came from a hitting-art background, Karate, WTF TKD, and ITF TKD, in that order, before I came to Aikido. As for grappling or ground fighting, it came as a natural thing to me. Now, I'm focusing on Aikido, I'm learning the principles of Aiki. If one could understand the principles of Aiki, then one could apply it into anything.

The technique that is learned in Aikido is basically Ju-Jutsu techniques (oh, man I'm gonna get a lot of reply by saying that). It is true though, the technique in Aikido is not exclusively Aikido, even Chin-Na and Kenpo has similar techniques. But, what makes Aikido, Aikido, is the Aiki part. When one doesn't learn the Aiki, then one better off learning Ju-Jutsu.

That's also the reason why Daitoryu split the school into three, Ju-Jutsu, Aiki-Ju-Jutsu, and Aiki-no-Jutsu. People who are big and strong are put into Ju-Jutsu school. Aiki-Ju-Jutsu is taught to those who needs it. Aiki-no-Jutsu class is quite exclusive.

When learning Aikido, Aiki should become part of your life. What Aiki means to you, that's another topic.

Last edited by Thalib : 07-24-2002 at 06:05 PM.

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Old 07-24-2002, 06:01 PM   #45
Chad Miner
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I don't think a "street ready" martial art exists, but they can give you kind of a small idea of what you could do in a fight if a situation should happen. Most martial art attacks could be changed a bit to show what to expect on the street. A round-house punch looks quite similar to a yokoman attack, they both have similar points to inflict and both can be dealt with the same way. However, you can still avoid the attack, which i think most aikido dojo's teach. If you feel you can't do a technique just dodge it and keep your distance, a guy can't keep punching forever.
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Old 07-30-2002, 11:38 AM   #46
sleepyshark
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It seems that we've gotten off topic, Edward's original question. But it also seems that someone has asked the beginner's question, does this really work? I recently saw Kanai-sensei at a seminar. I wouldn't want to throw a punch or a kick at him. Nor would I want to throw multiple punches and kicks, giving him that much more with which he could destroy me.

My suggestion is this: If you feel aikido doesn't work, find a martial art that you feel would. After all, don't waste your time doing something that you think is ineffective. But pease reconsider your attitude towards aikido. Saying this art isn't for you is one thing, but saying that it is not effective after studying for only a few years is premature and not very credible. That's like saying, after driving my Chevy for 5 years and having problems, all Chevy products are worthless. (nevermind Jeff Gordon has won the Winston Cup 4 times in a Chevy). If you've studied aikido under a shihan for over 10 years and still find it ineffective, then somewhere along the line, something went wrong.

Aikido is like everything else in life, if you put forth the effort and believe that the process is worthwhile, you'll receive the results that you deserve and expect. If not, you're wasting your time and those around you.
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Old 08-05-2002, 06:13 PM   #47
Bruce Baker
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You need to review the simplicity of 'paint the fence' or 'wax the car'.

Question what you are doing, what is the real application of Aikido? If you start to study the applications of pressure points that affect the body, then much more will become clear.

Understand ... the Aikido we practice, the path of non-violence we pursue in Aikido practice, is not a game, or hobby ... although sometimes we consider it as such. Aikido offers us an opportunity to train without injury to ourselves or others.

You can stay or leave ... it is your opportunity.
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Old 08-06-2002, 05:05 AM   #48
Joshua Livingston
 
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Quote:
Edward Frederick (cbrf4zr2) wrote:
I look at it this way. I try to have others control me as little as possible. If I am out walking, minding my own business - why should I have to change my plans and give up my wallet, or whatever it is when I can tell him to back off and continue about what I was doing?

Sorry - but running away at every threat is not the way I want to live my life. I would rather die living the way I choose, than to live knowing I was a sell-out.
I'm a big fan of Aiki principles (which I studied years before even taking Aikido) and blending, but I wouldn't consider you a "Bad Aikidoka" or even a "foolish Aikidoka" as a few others have chosen to judge.

If you don't want to run away that's your business and I salute you for having the guts not to let some dead beat criminal force you to do something you don't want to do. To be a "good Aikidoka" one simply needs to follow the basic principles. These can be interpreted in many different ways and thus unless you have a council of every person who is considered to be knowledgeable in Aiki principle declare something unanimously or you can contact O-Sensei, no one can tell you that your interpretation is wrong. That's not to say that it makes it correct, but that it really doesn't matter what others think. One must follow the Aiki way the best one can.

Gozo Shioda Sensei taught police troops to brake peoples arms and all kinds of nasty business that would be scoffed at now days by the "Aiki community." But few would dare to claim that he or his students were "bad Aikidoka."

In my personal opinion, which you can use however you choose, is that all one must do to be a "good Aikidoka" is try your best to follow the core Aiki principles, and to me this can be done simply by trying to blend with life's situations and when you are in a stressful situation try to blend with it and diffuse the situation with the least amount of damage done.

If you think that it is better for you to face an attacker than run away, then do so. I would urge you however, to keep all factors in mind.

If you are willing to give up your life for your wallet, Rolex, pride, state of mind, girlfriend, or a cute little kitten, then that's your business. However, if you have family and friends you should think of how it will affect them. If you have none then you have nothing to loose, if you don't mind loosing your life. But if you do, you should weigh the needs of your family and friends against what you are trying to protect by not running.

If you have children who's survival depends on you, then it may not be worth fighting just so someone doesn't force you to do something you don't want to do. $1,000+ doesn't equal much to missing monthly wages that are brought into a household by you. The sanity of your mother or friends may not be worth you doing something you'd rather not do. On the other hand, if you apprehend the attacker you could have saved the life of someone else who hasn't had your training and that may be well worth the risk. But, like I said, it is ultimately for you and you only to decide. If you think it is worth it, then go for it.

If you are trained well enough it shouldn't even matter because you will simply react to the situation to the best of your ability with out having to think about it.




Joshua Livingston
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Old 08-06-2002, 05:11 AM   #49
Joshua Livingston
 
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First let me get the Aiki-effectiveness issue out of the way. I worked at a nightclub for about 2 1/2 years. I had 10 years martial experience at the time with a background in Shotokan, Capoeria, American Kenpo, and a mixed martial arts school that had a total of 6 different teachers during my training period, who taught fighting from the ranges of projectiles: long staff (or similar): chains: short staff: swords/baseball bats: sprays/tasers: knives: kicks: trapping: elbow/knee/head butt: standing clinch: partially down (kneeling etc): ground fighting. And probably a few I forgot to list. In other words, they tried to cover everything they could, including psychology and natural body reactions.

During my time with the security force there, I had many physical confrontations with people who were bigger than me, tougher than me, damn near unhurtable due to drug use, and one incident with a knife (which was successful thank God (for Shionage)).

At the beginning of my duty I will admit that I got my ass handed to me quite often, so many times in fact that I nearly got fired because I was becoming a liability.

The problem was that I was using too much striking techniques. Part of my job was to make sure I didn't mess up the guys that I was dealing with, because it would end up with law suits against the club. So when I used strikes I found myself either doing too much damage with a strike and then freezing, because I didn't want to hurt the guy or doing too little damage by pulling my punches and getting beat down in the process. Next, I tried taking the aggressors to the ground. Well, most guys had friends who would proceed to kick and stomp me before my back up could get to me, or I would get stomped by the oblivious crowd (ground fighting and moshing don't mix )

Well it just so happens that the sixth guy who taught at my mixed martial arts school was an Aikidoka (I believe of 1st Kyu rank in Aikikai USAF at the time) who joined the school about a month before I got my warning that I was close to getting fired.

What he did instead of teaching straight Aikido to us (which as you know takes years to even come close to getting the basics down), was teach how to get to some of the end results of Aiki techniques with what we were already learning as well as the basic Tenkan, simply to get off the line of attack. So, it ended up being a form of Aikijutsu.

The point is when I started using these, I was finally able to use my full skill range and not worry about messing up the aggressor. As a result I was able to reestablish Mushin, which was previously being blocked by calculating what techniques I was "allowed" to do and what force I should use.

I don't care what anyone says, the best way to deal with a combat situation (w/o equipment) is to have the ability to stay calm (bypass the adrenaline rush) and be able to react correctly with out having to think about it. If you have this it doesn't matter if you practice sport TKD, you can still use it for effective self-defense.

I have now been training at a pure Aikido Dojo for a few years. The only problems with Aikido in the self defense world is that the style takes too long *in relation to self defense remember* to train your body to react without thought to any (or a high number) of combat situations and it doesn't teach how to stay calm and bypass the adrenaline dump in an extremely stress filled situation. This last problem is a double problem, as most Aikido techniques require intricate motor skills, which the adrenaline dump nearly destroys. It also causes you to tense up which everyone knows will throw a major wrench in your Aiki technique.

Most 6th Dan+ Aikidoka and even a few 3rd-5th and fewer Shodan-2nd Dan have the skill to use their techniques w/o thinking in a state of Mushin, reacting to a variety of attacks that they never even trained for. This is due to the fluidity and relaxed nature of the style of Aikido and the constant repetition of techniques. As a result, though Aikido takes a lot longer than other arts to reach a stage of "combat effectiveness," once it is at that level, it can be very superior to most of the other arts that are "combat effective" after only a few months.

The only missing equation is the training to get past the adrenaline dump. Some Aikido Dojo do practice this, most don't. This factor is why even though you can look at Kanai Sensei (and I have) and think "Man no one could ever get past that guy," it is possible that someone could stab him with a knife because he freezes. And that is commonly the case with big time martial artist who end up dead or hurt by attackers who at the Dojo could be whopped by Karate green belts. As has been said previously in this thread, no one is "street ready" and yes it is a disadvantage that Aikido doesn't deal a lot with kicks, projectiles, or ground fighting (though you'd be surprised how your training makes you react to these things). However, even though it is a cliché of Karateka that was pretty much killed by the Gracies, the point is not to let the attacker take you to the ground. If you do, then your Aikido was not good enough, and you loose. It is true that ground fighting could extend your expiration date in a fight, but if your Aikido was good enough you shouldn't need it. And if the guy has friends (and giving a thugs cowardly nature and pack tendencies, they usually do), it wouldn't matter any way.

When it comes down to it, no matter what you are trained in, your technique is either good enough and you get away or it isn't and you don't. Nothing can make you invincible, but Aikido Can give you enough to get out of most confrontations, if you are good enough.


Last edited by Joshua Livingston : 08-06-2002 at 05:14 AM.

Joshua Livingston
Aikido of Ashland (USAF)
Gold Coast Jujutsu
Capoeira Zambia Congo Group
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Old 08-06-2002, 05:21 AM   #50
erikmenzel
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Quote:
Joshua Workman wrote:
thank God (for Shionage)).
Why do you thank God for "throwing salt" ??


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