Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-24-2002, 12:47 PM   #26
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,267
Offline
Quote:
Opher Donchin (opherdonchin) wrote:
Alright, I'll bite. How did you find yourself in situations where these fights were your best alternative?
Well phrased!

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
------------------------
http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2002, 05:02 PM   #27
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Offline
Quote:
About Mr. Lee's fights, I can see how this could happen, I found myself up against 5 guys one night several were boxers, they started it and i finished it
I'm not doubting this can happen; I'm just curious about the circumstances. I feel like they give me insight about the places where we truly come to feel we have no options.

And, out of curiousity, how did your friend get in that situation?

Yours in Aiki
Opher
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2002, 10:12 PM   #28
Williamross77
 
Williamross77's Avatar
Dojo: aikido of shreveport
Location: Shreveport, Lousiana
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 143
United_States
Offline
Well Opher, in short, yes i was young and in the wrong place i guess, (local collage bar), these 5 guys walk in with girls and kinda push through the people at the bar where my friend and i were, i think one of us bumped him and one guy turns around and just looks at us two, my friend was twice my size so the guy punches him just like that none of the, "dude! i'm gona kick your___" just starts punching ,what ever, all of his buddies start in on him too, he held his own for a second or two but i had to help, well i did not only use aikido , also had to invoke some of that atemi i learned in my kenpo style days, this was years ago by the way, but they did start it and the only way to get outta there was with force, eventually their girlfriends jumped at me too , i guess they got tired of their boyfriends getting pushed around and,,,well you know,,, I don't go to bars any more by the way. and know i did not hit the girls...

they even called the cops on me after the fact because one of them had to go get stitched up after, i had everone in that place swear they started it and i just did enough to get out, I hate that it happened...

in Aiki
Agatsu!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2002, 08:53 AM   #29
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Offline
Amazing story.

There is always so much to learn.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2002, 08:38 AM   #30
norman telford
 
norman telford's Avatar
Dojo: newton aycliffe aikido club (UKAU)
Location: county durham england uk
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24
Offline
Just as a note, has any one actually listened to any of his music? I was listening to some this morning on his web site, and it is not that bad!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2002, 12:52 PM   #31
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Offline
Hey Mike,

My question wasn't rhetorical. I'd really like to know.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2002, 01:25 PM   #32
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Quote:
No where in his movies does it say "Steven Seagal will be doing aikido in this movie. All aikidoka judge him on this and not his clips of him actually doing aikido at his school."
First off I really don't care one way or the other. His movies are bad but fun and as I have yet to witness his aikido in real life I'm not informed enough to decide wether I like it or not. But I think you missed Brian Pettit's point. He said:
Quote:
It is not about if he could beat anyone up or not or to "use" his training. It is the fact that he is involved with this type of thing!
When Brian says "this type of thing" I don't think he is reffering to being in the movies. I believe he is reffering the possible connection with organized crime.

I don't begrudge Seagal the right to make his living from movies where he uses aikido/moviedo to rip off heads and arms, like I said they're fun. But I'd have to go with Brian and say that the link to organized crime brings with it a certain stigma of dishonesty.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2002, 05:30 PM   #33
Thalib
 
Thalib's Avatar
Dojo: 合気研究会
Location: Jakarta Selatan
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 504
Indonesia
Offline
There will be an "E! True Hollywod Story" on Steven Seagal Sunday, January 5, 2000hrs, Western Indonesia Time.

I don't know when it will be on the other parts of the world. check the E! website:

http://www.eonline.com/

When I have to die by the sword, I will do so with honor.
--------
http://funkybuddha.multiply.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2002, 04:15 AM   #34
JMWS
Dojo: Misogi Aikido
Location: Moscow, Russia
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 5
Offline
Reputable papers

I would just like to point out that I, my father, our colleagues and our company have been subject to the New York Times and its "reputable" reporting.

The sum total of their "research" involved one telephone call to our offices. When the person who was required was not available but in fact was returning the next day, that was it. No further effort on their part.

So, they just made it all up. Literally.

So I take whatever I see in ANY paper with a ton of salt.

Including this. I say bravo for holding together at all.

Serious gangster types are quite common in my neck of the woods. It's no picnic. I have actually had a pistol round handed to me with the additional comment that there was another similar item waiting for me outside. And that was just over a place to sit in a bar.

That's one of the tamer examples. Quite clearly, I wasn't shot upon leaving, but the threat was enough to sober me right up.

I would like to point out, however, that Moscow isn't generally a very violent place. Most of the serious violence is restricted to feuds between rival groups, which gets pretty insane. They don't usually touch innocents, it is very much against their quite strict code of conduct.

John
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2002, 04:44 AM   #35
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
Offline
Quote:
Hey Mike,

My question wasn't rhetorical. I'd really like to know.
Sorry. My instincts tell me it would not be a good idea to discuss such exploits on a public forum with someone I don't even know. But if I end up back in the city of my birth, I may talk about it over a beer.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2002, 07:23 AM   #36
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Offline
It'd be a right honor.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2002, 08:32 AM   #37
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
Offline
truth or consequences

Quote:
I would just like to point out that I, my father, our colleagues and our company have been subject to the New York Times and its "reputable" reporting.
The subject of this discussion is the report that the "New York Times" did on a well-known public figure in America. As of yet, neither Steven Seagal nor anyone else has come forward to dispute the story.

If the story were false and Seagal didn't say anything about it, we could only conclude that he is also afraid of the press.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2002, 09:24 AM   #38
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
Offline
Doesn't matter if it is true or not, it is not your life, your choices, and it is not up to you to judge another human being on how right or wrong they are.

To comment on "Your hero" who is first a human being, then an actor, and then a teacher of Aikido is neither your place or relevant in any place than the gossiping 'old lady" gossip phone conversation.

Let it go.

Real life is not the movies, and the movies are not always real life.

If you ever have to deal with a psycho who is convinced that the other side of lawful society is where the truth dwells, you would know enough to define where discression is the better part of valor and where getting physically involved means you have to kill not only the offender but his friends, family and associates that may be offended by his/her death.

The meek may inherit the earth, but the smart live long enough to dance on the graves of their enemys.

Yeah, I am a dancing fool!

Crank up 'da music Vinny!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2002, 09:48 AM   #39
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
Offline
truth or consequences

I don't see anything wrong with hero-worship cultures all over the world partake in such activities. But, generally speaking, the guy's got to do something heroic first! This is just common sense.

In America, they like to idolize Hollywood stars somehow imagining that the heroic deeds done on screen are real. Such dilusional thinking turns idolatry, which is already bad enough, into a kind of false hero-worship.

In aikido, where we are supposed to be expanding our awarness, such pursuits are clearly counter-productive.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2002, 10:24 AM   #40
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Offline
Quote:
I don't see anything wrong with hero-worship cultures all over the world partake in such activities.
I'm not sure if I see anything wrong with hero worship, but I do have a problem with the logic. Cultures all of the world partook in human sacrifice, too.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2002, 11:18 AM   #41
Mark Barlow
Dojo: Gulf Coast Martial Arts
Location: Alabama Gulf Coast
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 36
Offline
When Russell Crowe is reported to have been involved in some sort of physical altercation, the general reaction is that he is a macho idiot. When Seagal doesn't fight gangsters, he's portrayed as a coward and his rank and ability are called into question. Seems the famous are bound to be criticized regardless of how they behave.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2002, 11:23 AM   #42
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
Offline
I'm no hero

Quote:
I'm not sure if I see anything wrong with hero worship, but I do have a problem with the logic. Cultures all of the world partook in human sacrifice, too.
Sorry. My reasoning was based on common sense, something that seems to be in increasingly short supply in this modern world.

Heros that come to my mind would be people such as Albert Einstein (who never finished college), Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King, Chief Joseph, Sitting Bull, Ghandi, and yes, O'Sensei. I would also include saints, sages, and Buddhas.

I might also include great sports figures who overcame adversity on and off the playing field, such as those who battled racial prejiduce Jackie Robinson, for one.

Lincoln, Gen. Omhar Bradly, Franklin Roosevelt and Dwight D. Eisinhower.

Sorry. I just got too many heros. The list goes on and on. One of my heros is even on this forum. He's an Army Ranger and he's probably in the Middle East as we speak.

The greatest hero I've ever known, was my grandfather. But that's another story.

Last edited by mike lee : 12-30-2002 at 11:30 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2002, 08:05 PM   #43
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Offline
An admirable list of heroes and, like I said, I don't have a strong opinion on whether or not hero worship is appropriate. I'm just saying that the argument 'cultures all over the world have practiced it' is not strong support for the practice to my tastes.

What you just did, giving a list of people you feel are worth worshipping, would probably be a stronger argument. It's the difference, if I remember my rhetoric, between arguing from authority and arguing from example.

The central problem with hero worship (and this thread is a great sort of case in point) is the possibility that the hero will let you down by turning out to be merely human. There's nothing terribly wrong with that particularly learning experience, of course, except that it can sometimes get in the way of our ability to be compassionate. I'm a real strong believer in putting myself in places where compassion comes easily.

I think this is something I learned while doing AiKiDo: the stronger your position, the easier it is to be generous.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2002, 11:16 PM   #44
fjcsuper
 
fjcsuper's Avatar
Location: Singapore
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 31
Offline
I agree with Mark. People only remember the bad things that famous people do, and it will stay with them forever.

Just look at David Beckham... He is still known for his screwup during his international game, where he got sent off. And when was that? So long ago.

Newspapers only know how to critisize i think, if not they won't have much to write about. Newspapers really get on people's nerves huh?

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."

- Sir Winston Churchill
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2002, 02:29 AM   #45
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
Offline
heros are everywhere

Quote:
The central problem with hero worship (and this thread is a great sort of case in point) is the possibility that the hero will let you down by turning out to be merely human.
It's the simple fact that they are "merely human" that allows them to rise to hero status in the first place if and when they actually do something heroic.

When a man, for example, such as Chicago Bears great Walter Payton, who despite needing an urgent liver transplant, refused to use his money or his prestige to have himself moved up a list of others who also needed a liver transplant, he showed everyone what he was really made of.

The man never let his pride or his fame get in the way of his beliefs. He looked death square in the eye and didn't blink. At that point he truly became a hero.

Quote:
For Walter Payton, 16,726 yards not only signify the 9 1/2 miles he ran for in 13 seasons, they also represent durability from a running back who was not afraid to take a hit, to duck his head and plow into a defender just to get that extra yard.

"If I'm going to get hit," Payton said, "why let the guy who's going to hit me get the easiest and best shot? I explode into the guy who's trying to tackle me."

Despite all this punishment, he missed only one game in his Hall of Fame career with the Chicago Bears.

Last edited by mike lee : 12-31-2002 at 02:34 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2002, 07:04 PM   #46
sceptoor
Dojo: http://ctr.usf.edu/aikido/
Location: Tampa, Fl
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 100
Offline
Quote:
Mike Lee (mike lee) wrote:
His name is spelled S - E - A - G - A - L.

The two "gangsters" were reportedly unarmed.

The "New York Times" is one of the most reputable newspapers in the world.
1) If they were unarmed, how would Seagal know this??

2) IF he knew this, and decided to defend himself against a verbal threat, what would he do?? Sounds to me like he pulled an expensive "tenkan".

3) Being aggressive in any way to this family would be foolish. Seagal is not a dumb guy. Goons unarmed at the time or not, he knows the "family" does indeed have guns, and also knows that mafia guys have a habit of retaliation, and that a randori vs several real life mobsters with real life guns isn't very appealing, 7th Dan or not.

3) The New York Times is NOT one of the "most reputable newspapers in the world". They sensationalize EVERYTHING, especially when it involves a celebrity of any form.

C. Martin

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2003, 10:34 AM   #47
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Offline
Quote:
3) The New York Times is NOT one of the "most reputable newspapers in the world". They sensationalize EVERYTHING, especially when it involves a celebrity of any form.
Which would you consider the world's three or four most reputable newspapers?

Yours in Aiki
Opher
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2003, 12:21 PM   #48
Jim ashby
Dojo: Phoenix Coventry
Location: Coventry, England
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 303
Offline
The only forms of paper I would beleive unreservedly are those that I use in the bathroom. I know exactly what is on them and I put them where all newspapers should be put.

Have fun

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2003, 09:23 AM   #49
aikigreg
Dojo: Mizu Aikido
Location: Ft. Worth Texas
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 94
Offline
Quote:
James Ashby (Jim ashby) wrote:
The only forms of paper I would beleive unreservedly are those that I use in the bathroom. I know exactly what is on them and I put them where all newspapers should be put.

Have fun
Can I get an Amen up in here?
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Seminar with Frank Doran, Shihan - Aug. 8-10, 2014 at Sunset Cliff's Aikido, near San Diego's finest beaches



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Steven Seagal Interview ad_adrian General 45 01-15-2010 03:34 PM
Steven Seagal a true Aikidoka? nikonl General 57 09-02-2005 10:13 PM
Some interesting news on Steven Seagal. Zulk General 33 01-26-2004 02:56 PM
Steven seagal as you've never seen him before... Genex Humor 1 11-18-2002 07:57 AM
Steven Seagal Films JPT General 20 03-14-2002 11:49 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:32 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate