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Old 08-18-2012, 02:21 PM   #26
Janet Rosen
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
So, there is no thread since all we've done is made a declarative statement that labels and words can politicize and be shorthand for concepts. I don't think anyone would disagree with that observation. So what is the point of the thread? What I am missing?
Um...probably that you didn't follow your own excellent advice that "I really hope that our members don't respond to this since IMO it is really not designed to serve any positive purpose on aikiweb."

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 08-18-2012, 02:22 PM   #27
graham christian
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
So, there is no thread since all we've done is made a declarative statement that labels and words can politicize and be shorthand for concepts. I don't think anyone would disagree with that observation. So what is the point of the thread? What I am missing?
You agree, good. You think others would agree, good.

Then you miss nothing.

Peace.G.
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Old 08-18-2012, 02:31 PM   #28
Autrelle Holland
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

I got an email the other day from a guy who claimed to be the master of Aiki Budo. He sounded really qualified.
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:23 PM   #29
Anthony Loeppert
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Um...probably that you didn't follow your own excellent advice that "I really hope that our members don't respond to this since IMO it is really not designed to serve any positive purpose on aikiweb."
I'm reminded by this fable/story from my youth:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_baby
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Old 08-19-2012, 05:35 AM   #30
graham christian
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Okay, so then we need to understand ta little more about what you mean. Labels are labels. They carry meaning of some sort. It can be a politicized meaning, or simp,y to shorthand a concept that is commonly understood.

In order to have a discussion, I would need to know a little more about why you feel labels are not good specifically the use of the word Ueshiba. Especially since you have just stated that you are not speaking from the same context that Mark Murray does.
Review: As it is clear now and agreed on the point of Labels then you now have a common ground from which to add something.

The point of the thread was to look at the Labels used and see how that leads to conflict and argument.

Doesn't appear that many would like to do that. Fair enough.

I could see it opening many doors and clearing many things and leading to better discussions but obviously not.

Get rid of all labels and you will find we each do our own Aikido and when that is realized then there can only be good discussion.

Peace.G.
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Old 08-19-2012, 07:42 AM   #31
chillzATL
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
So, there is no thread since all we've done is made a declarative statement that labels and words can politicize and be shorthand for concepts. I don't think anyone would disagree with that observation. So what is the point of the thread? What I am missing?
You had it right in your initial reply. It's just a troll post, full of circular talk and passive-aggressiveness. Jun saw it for what it was and even he couldn't get a straight reply.

I'm pretty sure this is what our blog pages here are supposed to be for.
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:15 AM   #32
lbb
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
I'm pretty sure this is what our blog pages here are supposed to be for.
Amen to that! I love my blog (no, it's not on aikiweb, it's private, and please no argumentation about how it can't be a "blog" if I don't share it, do that and I will just make funny faces at you from behind my screen). I natter on about all kinds of silly things that mean absolutely nothing to anyone but me. I grouse about my sensei and my training partners. I whine about suwari waza. I bumble along, trying to articulate what I think I understand, and then say "ahhh, hell with it". Whatever. It's my place to work through things. Aikiweb is not that place. I'm not sure if it could ever be, even if the current dynamic is somehow reformed. I've got a thick skin; that's not the point. The point is that as things are right now, Aikiweb is just not helpful for working through ideas. There's no room for it. All the air has been sucked out of the room.

My blog is the place where I get an uninterrupted, uncontested forum. It is also the only place, these days, where I can wrestle with my own ideas about aikido. That's too bad, but I don't know what can be done to change that. There are demonstrably people of good will here on Aikiweb, but all it takes is one turd to ruin the entire bowl of punch.
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:00 AM   #33
graham christian
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Mmmm. I thought everyone agreed.

Labels, labels, labels. Obviously the point has been missed. 'A troll' 'a turd' 'a tar baby' fascinating. More labels which fit the concept given.

Here in England such labels and personal insults are called troll behavior.

There is an opportunity on this thread to ditch labels and share how you would describe your Aikido as you personally find it without using such labels as yoshinkan or tomiki or whatever.

There is opportunity to say which influences you find have helped.

There is opportunity.

Budo in action.

Peace.G.
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:26 AM   #34
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

I think the only person who could Ueshiba's aikido was Ueshiba. Through study and training I hope to continue to my aikido for many a day.

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Old 08-20-2012, 11:45 AM   #35
graham christian
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
I think the only person who could Ueshiba's aikido was Ueshiba. Through study and training I hope to continue to my aikido for many a day.
Yes, and long may you do so. Your way, your style, your methods, your principles.

May you also carry on without need to label others or what they do negatively or claim superiority. A valuable and admirable quality of yours and true budo I would say.

Peace.G.
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Old 08-20-2012, 12:26 PM   #36
MM
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Yes, and long may you do so. Your way, your style, your methods, your principles.

May you also carry on without need to label others or what they do negatively or claim superiority. A valuable and admirable quality of yours and true budo I would say.

Peace.G.
You do realize that by stating that those who use labels ... is in fact using labels to apply to people? And you fall under your very own criticisms as you are setting yourself superior to judge it is negativity. There is no wisdom in doing that.

Which speaks volumes about your whole thread here. It was asked if you were specifically targeting ... me. You hedged your bets and replied it was about labels. Then here you state that using labels is synonymous with negativity and claiming superiority. None of which I have done, a fact that Keven has so eloquently posted. You, however, have.

How do you climb Mount McKinley? Do you travel to the mountain range in Europe and go looking for a tall mountain? Or perhaps, the tall mountain in the US, in the state of Alaska has been labelled so that people can distinguish what they are talking about. It has been given a name for comparing and contrasting.

Take a martial art? What one? They're labeled/named for comparing and contrasting. Otherwise, you'd spend a lot of lengthy time going over each and every thing, each and every time you want to have a discussion.

Personally, I think you were being haughty, which I believe is against Jun's rules of conduct. I think your first post and the post I qouted here show that. But, that's the last I'll say in this thread. May it close soon.

Mark
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Old 08-20-2012, 01:38 PM   #37
lbb
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

I like pudding.
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Old 08-20-2012, 01:38 PM   #38
Gary David
 
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

I realize that I may be considered one of the Danettes like Mark though I had been in Aikido well over 30 years before I met Dan.........for me this "all" is about the social network that today's Aikido has become and how folks play in that network....well actually it was a social network when I started in the 70's.....it is just that the Internet has allowed for connections across city, county, state, and international borders. Folks still function now the way they did then even with the exposure that is now available with any number of possible teachers. Folks come to seminars, listen, spend a little time attempting what is being shown, explain it to others on the mat using the personal context they came onto the mat with and then go home to train doing what they had always done. It is not good form to call anyone out, to challenge anyone, to question their lineage, their approach, methods or results.........after all you then are open for this yourself.

Aaaaahhh enough from me............have a good day

Gary
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Old 08-20-2012, 02:18 PM   #39
Nicholas Eschenbruch
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
I realize that I may be considered one of the Danettes.........

Gary
Wow, great term - you realise a Danette is a tasty french desert?
http://www.danette.fr/
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Old 08-20-2012, 02:31 PM   #40
Dave de Vos
 
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Nicholas Eschenbruch wrote: View Post
Wow, great term - you realise a Danette is a tasty french desert?
http://www.danette.fr/
We should order t-shirts with those and wear them when he returns!
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Old 08-20-2012, 04:05 PM   #41
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Danette...looked at the link...it is just a fancy label for pudding.

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Old 08-20-2012, 05:14 PM   #42
graham christian
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
You do realize that by stating that those who use labels ... is in fact using labels to apply to people? And you fall under your very own criticisms as you are setting yourself superior to judge it is negativity. There is no wisdom in doing that.

Which speaks volumes about your whole thread here. It was asked if you were specifically targeting ... me. You hedged your bets and replied it was about labels. Then here you state that using labels is synonymous with negativity and claiming superiority. None of which I have done, a fact that Keven has so eloquently posted. You, however, have.

How do you climb Mount McKinley? Do you travel to the mountain range in Europe and go looking for a tall mountain? Or perhaps, the tall mountain in the US, in the state of Alaska has been labelled so that people can distinguish what they are talking about. It has been given a name for comparing and contrasting.

Take a martial art? What one? They're labeled/named for comparing and contrasting. Otherwise, you'd spend a lot of lengthy time going over each and every thing, each and every time you want to have a discussion.

Personally, I think you were being haughty, which I believe is against Jun's rules of conduct. I think your first post and the post I qouted here show that. But, that's the last I'll say in this thread. May it close soon.

Mark
Nice to hear from you Mark.

I believe it is wise and true and is what I consider to be. Hence it is from that viewpoint my judgement. It is not applying labels to any particular person. From this view you can look at labels which do as I said and judge for yourself and hopefully learn and lead to better communication.

If there is no wisdom in stating some wisdom then we may all carry on regardless.

It was asked if I was targetting you and the answer is clear...no. If you continue to act like the answer is vague or not true then all I see is an unwillingness to understand the thread and points made.

Labels are nouns, names, of conditions or things. It's an interesting fact how they can be used to make self feel superior and others less so and can be used to insult etc. If you talk about rules of behavior then you will find using labels in such a fashion breaks the rules.

When upset I may call someone a b*********. A label which serves no constructive purpose and shows lack of discipline. On inspection you will find that label also is not true. Just crazyness in action which those who like doing so would excuse as just an upset or 'he didn't mean it ' or some such. How we use labels is a major contributor to destructive communication. Justyfying it and saying it isn't or defending it means we can carry on 'innocently' doing it.

So we can, if we want to, use labels which don't do the above, it's a discipline. Sometimes it is necessary to take more time to do so so that is no excuse as far as I am concerned.

I can predict those who protest this will be those who want to keep doing so which is a shame and a lost opportunity.

Now, to correct you further if you don't mind, I know not much about you, I know comments you have made about me and my Aikido yet I would not do the same to you or say the same about you based on two reasons. !) I like the fact you or anyone is learning, progressing and enjoying it. 2) That I consider it unbudo and rude to do so.

If I am being haughty then note my haughtyness compliments rather than disparages. If my wisdom hits a few opposing ideas then note it of itself is neutral and shakes ideas which are not.

My view is not an order or command so if you or anyone take it personally then I suggest you ask yourself why.

Peace.G.
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:22 PM   #43
graham christian
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
I realize that I may be considered one of the Danettes like Mark though I had been in Aikido well over 30 years before I met Dan.........for me this "all" is about the social network that today's Aikido has become and how folks play in that network....well actually it was a social network when I started in the 70's.....it is just that the Internet has allowed for connections across city, county, state, and international borders. Folks still function now the way they did then even with the exposure that is now available with any number of possible teachers. Folks come to seminars, listen, spend a little time attempting what is being shown, explain it to others on the mat using the personal context they came onto the mat with and then go home to train doing what they had always done. It is not good form to call anyone out, to challenge anyone, to question their lineage, their approach, methods or results.........after all you then are open for this yourself.

Aaaaahhh enough from me............have a good day

Gary
I consider you are you.

Peace.G.
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Old 08-21-2012, 02:55 AM   #44
mrlizard123
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I like pudding.
Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
I realize that I may be considered one of the Danettes...
Quote:
Nicholas Eschenbruch wrote: View Post
... you realise a Danette is a tasty french desert?
Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Danette...looked at the link...it is just a fancy label for pudding.
The first rule about pudding club...

Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:49 PM   #45
Andrew Macdonald
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

my goodness

and people wonder why aikido sometimes disrespected, just wasted 5 mintues of my life reading this thread.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:55 AM   #46
Rob Watson
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Andrew Macdonald wrote: View Post
my goodness

and people wonder why aikido sometimes disrespected, just wasted 5 mintues of my life reading this thread.
Guess that means you don't like pudding?

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:42 AM   #47
Edgecrusher
 
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
Guess that means you don't like pudding?
Who doesn't like pudding? Honestly, can we at least agree on something?
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