Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-24-2000, 05:13 PM   #1
Magma
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 168
Offline
Ai symbol

I have a question. We recently put on an AAA seminar at my dojo where instructors came in from chicago. Early in the invitation and promotional process, we tried to make it clear that any martial style was welcome to come for the weekend, and we did, in fact, have several arts represented on the floor. What did not show on the floor were other styles of aikido. In calling around to other dojos to invite them, we received very curt and sometimes quite impolite tirades about how that dojo's style was not AAA and therefore would not come.

My question is: in an art focused on harmony, how is it we've gotten to the point where other, completely different art forms are more willing to attend seminars than other splinters of the aikido family might be?

I can't get around the fact that the answer might be ego, but I would like to hear what others have to say...

M

[Edited by Magma on September 25, 2000 at 02:35pm]
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2000, 05:42 PM   #2
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,854
Offline
I think the reason why people from other arts may be more open to going to seminars of other arts may be due to the fact that they (as in, the people studying at the school and the teachers) have no "history" with the people doing the seminar.

It's an unfortunate fact, even in this "harmonious" art, that personality differences and such exist. I think it was Dobson who said that the reason why we have such splintering in aikido is due to all of us being so "harmonious" to begin with. We develop our own form of harmony and decide that our harmony (or our method of being harmonious) is the best and only way.

I personally don't know how well the current crop of senior instructors are going to be able to get along any more. Most of them carry with them decades of "history" with them. Some are very open, but others aren't.

My personal feeling is that the current crop of "students" are the ones who can make the difference -- and I think that includes people like us. Go to seminars, especially with people you've never seen. Support the events of other dojo around you. Be friendly to visiting aikido folks.

If we make an effort to try to see, feel, and understand other people's interpretations of aikido, I think that the future of aikido will be a much more "harmonious" place.

I'll get off my soap box now...

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2000, 07:11 PM   #3
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Stay on the soapbox, Jun.

I agree and just finished a short rant following your other post.

Lots of folks, when faced with a different method, either "cooperate" so much that nothing is happening or they turn it into a war to show the other person that their way is best.

Understanding how to give energy to another person during our keiko and trust our ukemi and them is very difficult. I think it is the key to the "harmony" many of us would like to have as one large "family."

Fearful ego must be left at the door when we enter the dojo for keiko. It doesn't matter who gets thrown. Learning is the key. Staying vulnerable and risking is very hard for all of us to do. I'm not sure any of us do it right a lot of the time.


Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2000, 08:32 PM   #4
Niadh
Dojo: Berkshire Hills Aikido, MA
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 69
Offline
I am currently studying two styles of Aikido. I have found that both instructors seem very open to the other's style and I learn from both. Every now and again I will hear, "that is XXX style., we do this a little differently...", but it does not seem to be vindictive. Keep in mind these two dojos are about 3/4 of a block apart.
I recently attended a seminar at one of the dojos. The guest, Gleason Sensei, made a point of having people go to dojos of other affiliations, but seemed more towars USAF & ASU than say Ko-Ki-Kai etc. Maybe that was just my impression. Some of the students however, were very "this is my way and it is good and right" especially if trying to do a technique a way that was not like they had learned. I feel it only fair to point out that these were the more advanced students.
This was my first seminar after almost 14 years, and I am still a little undecided.
Niadh

Non Satis Scire
Niadh Feathers
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2000, 10:46 PM   #5
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,200
Offline
It's a good soap box Jun.

One of the things about an area like this is that people get together, discuss the art and do so in a non-partisan manner with all ranks participating relatively equally. I'm willing to bet that this is fairly unique.

Hopefully this time next year you'll have 20,000 posts.

Quote:
Some of the students however, were very "this is my way and it is good and right" especially if trying to do a technique a way that was not like they had learned. I feel it only fair to point out that these were the more advanced students.
I've noticed this too. Probably been guilty too.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2000, 11:01 AM   #6
BC
Location: Chicago, IL
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 432
Offline
Thumbs down

Hear hear. Reminds me of a conversation I had with some folks at summer camp recently. We were talking how cool it would be to have a big seminar that would include all the representative styles and dojos found in the Midwest/Chicago area (USAF, AAA, ASU, Ki Aikido, Yoshinkan, Yoseikan, Tomiki, Independants, etc.). I think it would make both O Sensei and John Lennon very proud...Imagine...

-BC
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2000, 11:53 AM   #7
Russ
Dojo: Pacific Aikido Kensankai
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 32
Offline
Hear, hear, Jun!

We're all quite naturally afraid to make ourselves vulnerable by opening up to something different, even only a little different. Imagine how difficult it must be for someone who has a vested interest (via time and money) devoted to a certain style to let it go even for the relatively short time of a seminar. It's funny how our minds trick us. "I've trained ten years this way so I must be closer to the penultimate expression of technique. If I let that go even for the weekend then it's backward step." If we are stuck in a generally North American thinking mode, (ie. move forward, achieve the goal), then we tend to get defensive about our "way". Of course, if we keep reminding ourselves that there is actually no "there" to get to and no particular "thing" to achieve then we tend to be more open to other "ways".
A whole bunch of words to simply say "Beginners mind...."

Yours truly,

Russ
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2000, 01:58 PM   #8
"Sid"
IP Hash: fb52666b
Anonymous User
I dunno if this applies but here goes. I am an aikidoka in South Africa. I wnated to get some more practice in, and, at my sensei's suggestion phoned another club so that i could practice at two clubs at once. Maybe that was silly of me, but I thought it would be nice. I asked them if they had heard of my sensei, and they said that they had. They then said that he didn't know what he was doing, and that he didn't know aikido. I asked him about this, and he said that it was becuase he hadn't registered his club under the South African Aikido board, but went straight thorugh to the Hombu Dojo. I thought that that wads a rather nasty example of politics and vindictiveness.

Btw, I know he isn't a fake, becuase I can see he teches aikido.

sid
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2000, 05:05 PM   #9
cguzik
Location: Tulsa, OK
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 166
Offline
Different Styles

I have had the good fortune during the three years I have been training to pratice in several different dojos. Part of this has been due to quite a bit of business travel, during which I would seek out dojos wherever I was staying, and part is due to a cross-country move last year which took me from an AANC dojo to an ASU dojo. From what I have seen the differences between USAF, ASU, and the diverse AANC styles are mostly superficial.

I have noticed that it is what I would call the middle-level students who tend to be rather locked into their own idea of how techniques should work. These would be students who are more experienced than I am but who have not spent much time teaching.

Practitioners who are less experienced than I am tend to just pay attention to what I am doing, and very senior students are aware that it's important to be adaptable and understand that different schools teach different ways.

I have had one teacher at a school I was visiting actually point out to his students that it would be better to pay attention to my movement than to try to correct me, because they would someday be going all over to different seminars and would need to be adaptable. (Note that I am not saying I was doing things "right", just that a big part of all this training is to learn to be sensitive to our partners). This attitude seems to be pretty common amongst teachers, but not necessarily amongst their senior students.

Sometimes I think all these corrections are a hinderance but hopefully in the long run I'm learning more.

Chris
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2000, 12:08 PM   #10
DJM
Dojo: Two Rivers Dojo, York
Location: York, England
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 47
Offline
Hear hear!
I share some of the above posters dislike in speaking of different 'styles'...
There is, in my strictly amateur opinion, only 'Aikido'. All the so-called styles really are are different ways of teaching it...
Maybe it looks a little different to us beginners, but since the principles are constant, irrespective of dojo or Sensei, everyone's Aikido ends up walking the same path..

Peace,
David

Sunset Shimmering,
On Water, Placid and Calm,
A Fish Touches Sky
--
David Marshall
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2000, 12:26 PM   #11
Nick
Dojo: Aikido of Greater Atlanta
Location: Atlanta, GA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 561
United_States
Offline
I agree- with any 'style' of any path- just different trails to get to the same road.

-Nick

---
Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2000, 10:43 PM   #12
tedehara
 
tedehara's Avatar
Dojo: Evanston Ki-Aikido
Location: Evanston IL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 826
Offline
Report from the Front

Quote:
BC wrote:
Hear hear. Reminds me of a conversation I had with some folks at summer camp recently. We were talking how cool it would be to have a big seminar that would include all the representative styles and dojos found in the Midwest/Chicago area (USAF, AAA, ASU, Ki Aikido, Yoshinkan, Yoseikan, Tomiki, Independants, etc.). I think it would make both O Sensei and John Lennon very proud...Imagine...

-BC
You can probably see this seminar as some sort of Platonic Ideal, since (in my experience) the Chicago Metro area is very "splintered".

I once was visiting a Chicago dojo and mentioned a suburban dojo to a senior member. He got very upset. The group from the suburban dojo had come from the dojo I was visiting and there was some bad feelings on their "departure". I'd like to note that the suburban dojo was still a member of the same organization and had the same Shihan. If people treat others like this within their own organizaton, how would they treat someone from a completely different group?

Some of the top senior members were there when the various groups split apart and bad memories linger. Other students have heard stories mixed in with their training. These stories of other dojos may/may not be true. However, if you hear a lie enough times, you begin to assume it is true.

When was the last time you trained with a dojo completely outside your style/organizaton? What were your feelings at that dojo and how did they treat you? What were the reactions of the teachers and fellow students in your dojo, when you told them of your visits? Were you foolish enough to tell someone in your dojo, what you were doing? Sometimes, it's not so easy.

I don't see the Chicago area as being any better or worse than anywhere else in the USA. Forums like this one give you an opportunity to get to know other aikidoists up to a certain point. However, to actually go to another dojo and practice with strangers is worse than starting over. Because these "strangers" may already have a prejudical attitude against you. Just as you might carry prejudices against them.

Sorry to play Devil's Advocate, but I really don't see any change in attitude among Aikido organizations. No one said human nature was all sweetness and light - learning to get along with each other is an important lesson. It's a lesson that has to be constantly relearned and practiced daily.

Ted Ehara

[Edited by tedehara on August 26, 2000 at 09:49pm]
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2000, 11:13 PM   #13
Dan Hover
Dojo: Bond Street Dojo/Aikido of Greater Milwaukee
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 132
United_States
Offline
Ai symbol can't we all get along??

sometimes we all get so caught up in Holding ourselves to the exact translation of Aikido we sometimes miss the big picture. Does everyone get along with everyone else at their dojo? In an ideal world sure, we all would, but here in reality land people all have thier own baggage. differnet styles of aikido came about becasue of different teachers who trained with O'sensei at different times in his life. All are walking on the same road he laid out for us, but all started walking on it at various stages of the construciton of that road. does this mean that one is right or "more right" than the other, not really. No more than being a catholic makes you more a christian than being a lutheran. We must not lose sight of the fact that there are different approaches to the art, and where the harmony will begin at is the student, not the instructor. The student needs to go to other style's classes, early on before he/she can accululate the baggage that prevents mr/s Yudansha from acknowledging that they are different perspectives of the same art. if things didn't evolve, we still would be working with the bayonet and spear instead of the Jo. No one ever really wants to admit to their own complacency about their technique, whether it be good or bad. See whats out there and learn where we as Aikidoka came from, and how it has changed over the years, and surprisingly enough that we are far more similiar than we are different. Off course that's just my opinion I could be wrong.

Dan Hover
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2000, 04:58 AM   #14
DJM
Dojo: Two Rivers Dojo, York
Location: York, England
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 47
Offline
Hi all..
I've been thinking a little about this. It's often said that a good Aikidoka will be able to apply the principles of their Aikido in all parts of their life - but surely, most especially, in other areas of their Aikido. I'm speaking about ukemi, the side of Aikido which develops your sensitivity to tori's technique and allows you to roll with it. It doesn't work if you have pre-conceived ideas of what tori's attack will be, or if he doesn't do a technique the same way you do.. Also you can't allow yourself to be 'duped' by uke's attack history - just because the last 3 attacks have been shomen ate it doesn't mean the next one will be..
I would hope that Aikidoka would be able to apply these skills to the whole of their Aikido - including how they approach other 'styles' - with sensitivity and flexibility...

Peace,
David

Sunset Shimmering,
On Water, Placid and Calm,
A Fish Touches Sky
--
David Marshall
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2000, 06:39 AM   #15
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 915
Offline
i have not been practicing for very long, but i've moved around a bit and have to say Ted has some valid points, despite what we'd all like to believe. But there are also rays of hope. My first move was in the same city, not long after i'd started at one dojo: we'd been told if we wanted to train in another school we'd need the sensei's permission. I didn't realize at the time that meant in a different MA, not a different Aikido dojo, and asked about training in a different dojo (and style) when i went home for visits. It was some time after i'd been encouraged to leave that a senior student from that dojo pointed out to me NO one ever asked to train at a different Aikido dojo, before or after me. When i've visited other cities, i usually train if i can---and each dojo (never the same affiliation) has been super nice to me; work kept me at two different ones longer than a month each time, and the senseis there treated me as one of their own, as did their students. My shorter visits have been as cordial in other places. I do try my best at each to learn what is being taught, and not show what i'm bringing with me unless the instructor asked---but that is only polite. The most difficult thing for me is when, either in the initial demo, or if during correction an instructor shows something that is part of the style a previous sensei has taught me, and announces it 'is wrong' or 'doesn't work' etc. i like correction, and while not fond of being made fun of don't mind it too much, but it makes it difficult for me to learn when (even inadvertantly) someone tears down a previous sensei's teaching. my last dojo was a model of acceptance (it was an Aikido club, i'm told that's why)...anyway, three instructors, each with their own different roots, who had a live and let live approach that was perfect. we just came to do Aikido, and if you couldn't get the technique one class, we'd say, wait until the next hour and someone will teach it differently. i've just moved (again) and now find that the hardest thing for me to deal with, and i know my ego is all entwined in it, is when i get that inadvertant mocking of a previous teaching. well, something for me to work on .
so, as i now hop off of this very nice soap box, i have found both agoraphobia and outstanding flexibility in a variety of dojos, styles, and senseis/students. i think, like us as individuals, Aikido is a work in progress.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2000, 11:34 AM   #16
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,854
Offline
Re: Report from the Front

Ted raises some very valid and interesting points.

Quote:
tedehara wrote:
When was the last time you trained with a dojo completely outside your style/organizaton?
As far as a different style goes, I went to a five-day seminar with the Jiyushinkai folks in Tempe in May and had a great time. (They're a different organization than the one I belong to, too.) I was at Kashiwaya sensei's Ki Society seminar last November.

And as far as organization goes, I think the last time other than the one stated above was when I went to see Isoyama sensei in Colorado Springs in April. I was at Virginia Ki Society last November. I also saw Saito sensei last September, too. I'll be heading out to the Bay Area to see Takeda sensei next Thursday.

When I used to live in the Bay Area, I travelled to many different dojo and seminars regardless of affiliation and/or "style."
Quote:
What were your feelings at that dojo and how did they treat you?
I can't say that I've personally been treated poorly. Now, that may be a spurious argument, but that's been my experience. Maybe I need to get out more...
Quote:
What were the reactions of the teachers and fellow students in your dojo, when you told them of your visits?
My teacher has told me in so many words to go out and see other shihan from other organizations and not just limit my training to people from our organization. He and others at the dojo seem to encourage my promiscuity.
Quote:
Were you foolish enough to tell someone in your dojo, what you were doing?
Yup -- I'm a pretty big fool about it, really. Sometimes I even get others to go with me, too.
Quote:
Sometimes, it's not so easy.
You're right about that. I can't say I haven't heard stories of people getting turned away at the door of a dojo because they belonged to the "wrong" organization. I've heard a story where one shihan held a big public demonstration and another teacher from the area decided to go and watch. A few of the shihan's students approached him when he was taking his seat and asked him to leave. (He did.)
Quote:
However, to actually go to another dojo and practice with strangers is worse than starting over. Because these "strangers" may already have a prejudical attitude against you. Just as you might carry prejudices against them.
Of course, that happens, too.

But, my own feeling is that being insulated in one single style or organization is limiting to everyone's aikido.
Quote:
Sorry to play Devil's Advocate, but I really don't see any change in attitude among Aikido organizations.
Maybe not among organizations, but perhaps in individuals.

We receive many visitors at our dojo from all sorts of different organizations. We try to welcome them as well as we can and then train with them. Hopefully, they'll be able to say to their friends that they felt welcome and had a good time. Maybe that'll lead to more visitors in the future. And so on.

I'm in the process of helping organize the third annual Aikido-L Seminar. This year and in the past, we've had teachers from USAF, ASU, Ki Society, Yoshinkai, Jiyushinkai, Kurita Juku, Nishio sensei's group, and Aiki Budo all volunteer their time and effort to teach. The majority of the people who come to the Seminar are those on the mailing list. Many travel from around the United States and also from other countries like Norway, Germany, and Canada. Most all of them train at different dojo which span the gamut of styles and organizations.

So, I don't think it's impossible to organize such a cross-style, cross-organizational seminar. It just takes people who are able to check their egos at the door and just do aikido.
Quote:
No one said human nature was all sweetness and light - learning to get along with each other is an important lesson. It's a lesson that has to be constantly relearned and practiced daily.
I agree, of course. But that doesn't mean we can't practice being open to others, either.

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2000, 11:43 AM   #17
Dan Hover
Dojo: Bond Street Dojo/Aikido of Greater Milwaukee
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 132
United_States
Offline
Ai symbol did you notice?

did you notice that your instructor encouraged you to go see others? Hopefully everyone who will read this will notice that. More instructors should be like this. Go see everyone you can, then you will see the true diversity and beauty of the art and the limitless applications of the art. I too was very fortunate that my instructor very early on, would take me to see Saotome one weekend, and then two weeks later, off we would go to see Yamada and Kanai. Now I pimp any seminar that is within 6-8 hours from our dojo, regardless of affiliation. See what is out there, then we can talk shop, instead of talking ignorance.

Dan Hover
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2000, 11:49 AM   #18
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,854
Offline
Re: did you notice?

Quote:
Dan Hover wrote:
did you notice that your instructor encouraged you to go see others?
Me? Of course. My going to a lot of different teachers was something I already did before I came to my current dojo. It may have been sort of self-selective since I will not study under a teacher who refuses to let his or her student see other people. I've been lucky (or selective) that all of my previous (and current) teachers have had an open mind about such.

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2000, 12:11 PM   #19
DJM
Dojo: Two Rivers Dojo, York
Location: York, England
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 47
Offline
Re: Report from the Front

Quote:
tedehara wrote:

<snip>
When was the last time you trained with a dojo completely outside your style/organizaton? What were your feelings at that dojo and how did they treat you? What were the reactions of the teachers and fellow students in your dojo, when you told them of your visits? Were you foolish enough to tell someone in your dojo, what you were doing? Sometimes, it's not so easy.
<snip>
Ted Ehara
Ted,
I haven't trained at a different dojo, yet, but I have trained at a non-Tomiki weekend course, held by Ken Cottier Sensei, which was held by an Aikikai Dojo. There were a number of attendees from my dojo (my Sensei amongst them) and we were treated as part of the family. Bob Jones Sensei, Chairman of the British Aikido Association, has told us to experience different Sensei, different dojo, in order to strengthen the breadth and depth of our Aikido. Also a couple students at our dojo study 4 nights a week - twice at the dojo I attend, and twice at another. If anything Sensei welcomes the different 'spin' on things they sometimes bring to the dojo..

All in all an atmosphere, at both dojo and organistion levels, that fosters a truly wide-ranging learning environment...

Which makes it all the sadder when there are dojo, and possibly organisations, who try and keep the portcullis down.

Peace,
David

Sunset Shimmering,
On Water, Placid and Calm,
A Fish Touches Sky
--
David Marshall
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2000, 12:26 PM   #20
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,200
Offline
I've been trying to find the exact quote but have failed so I'll paraphrase.

Henry Kissinger once commented on why political infighting is so savage in the educational realm. He said,

"because there is so little at stake."

Thought it appropriate.

In regards to Ted's questions. The Bay Area is fairly open. Probably because there are so damn many of us that you just can't prevent it. Dojo hopping is common and I would be pretty comfortable knocking on almost anyone's doors around here.

But, I must admit that while I regularly visit 3 different dojos (ASU, AANC), there are a number of brands that I have not visited. One of these days I suppose.

And yes, the Bay Area has seen more than it's fair share of politics. Enough that it even filters down to someone like me. My shodan was delayed a year while my instructors tried to figure out which division they'd join (AANC 3 divisions). They went for none of the above and joined a different group. Sigh!

[Edited by Erik on August 27, 2000 at 11:52am]
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2000, 11:00 PM   #21
Magma
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 168
Offline
When I was just starting my training, I attended a seminar where at one point the group was divided into 2nd kyu and above and 3rd and below. The higher ranked group left the floor for instruction in a different area, and we were left with only one black belt - the sensei instructing that class. I can stll remember the feeling - because it was really physical as much as it was psychological - of there just being more air to breath on the mats. And it wasn't because there was more room, but because so much ego had gone with those who had left. Those of us left then were able to get down to the real business of training.

That isn't a knock against the yudansha, but a diagnosis of a particular situation which informs this discussion a bit, I think. I have found black belts who are both humble and helpful, and an inspiration for my continued growth. I have also found those who could not be bothered to help even when directly asked.

IMHO, it is on these personal levels where we can begin to turn around the direction the aikido family has been taking. When we forget what it feels like to learn, we resent those who still are, no matter what their rank . . . or affiliation. If someone has something to teach, or something to learn, they should have the opportunity.

M
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2000, 09:34 AM   #22
Dan Hover
Dojo: Bond Street Dojo/Aikido of Greater Milwaukee
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 132
United_States
Offline
You know I've been at seminars where they split it between Yu and Mudansha, and you're right there is a difference, Only problem is I go with the Yudansha's and secretly wish I was with the Mudansha's so I wouldn't have to deal with the attitudes.

Dan Hover

of course that's my opinion, I could be wrong
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2000, 01:34 PM   #23
Magma
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 168
Offline
Quote:
Dan Hover wrote:
You know I've been at seminars where they split it between Yu and Mudansha, and you're right there is a difference, Only problem is I go with the Yudansha's and secretly wish I was with the Mudansha's so I wouldn't have to deal with the attitudes.
I've heard the same things from my Yudansha travel-mates to these seminars.

M
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2000, 01:42 PM   #24
Dan Hover
Dojo: Bond Street Dojo/Aikido of Greater Milwaukee
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 132
United_States
Offline
Quote:
Magma wrote:
Quote:
Dan Hover wrote:
You know I've been at seminars where they split it between Yu and Mudansha, and you're right there is a difference, Only problem is I go with the Yudansha's and secretly wish I was with the Mudansha's so I wouldn't have to deal with the attitudes.
I've heard the same things from my Yudansha travel-mates to these seminars.

M
sad isn't it? take a look, they are the future. Ignorant in their own complacency.

Dan Hover

of course that's my opinion, I could be wrong
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2000, 01:26 AM   #25
stratcat
Dojo: Chendokan Aikido, Costa Rica
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 34
Offline
Do symbol Ebony and Ivory, living together in harmony...

Y'know, like the Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson Song?

Anyway, this is a subject that is very important to me, because it implies that we all RESPECT other, no matter what style of Aikido we practice. It truly bothers me when someone in a dojo disrespects somebody else's style. It shows a lack of education, as well as ignorance of Aikido's ultimate goals.

Somewhere along the line we forgot that O'Sensei's mandate was that Aikido was for the world, and not for a select elite of people that would forever hold its "secrets". The idea was to use Aikido as a way to UNIFY the family of Man, not as a bone of contention. To say "My style of Aikido is better than anyone else's," or "My style is the only TRUE Aikido" is to imply that only those that practice that style of Aikido have possesion of the inner working's of harmony and Ki. How preposterous, presumptuous and egotistical!

Unfortunately, sometimes even our dojo-mates fall into this sort of small minded thinking. In that case the best thing we can do is just walk away. If that person truly felt he/she knew a better way, instead of bragging, it would be more productive to just quietly go on teaching his style and that way convincing people as to the "advantages" of his/her style!

In any case, many times the differences aren't even in the technique, but in the policies for testing, teaching methods, order of the curriculum, etc. and not any real discernible difference in philosophy or technique. Are we really going to start ranting as to why my testing philosophy is better that yours, or vice versa? It's not any other dojo's business anyway! Or why dojo x teaches its beginner's kota-gaeshi before ikkyo? Give me a break!

We have to overcome this disease of in- fighting. Rather we should seek to learn the best form each other's styles. I'm sure there are many useful things I could learn from Aikikai Technique or Tomiki or Yoshinkan, or Atemi- Kai or Shin Shin Toisu or whatever; I hope I have the opportunity to do so someday. Conversely I would like to think that the style I practice could also add to anyone's learning of Aikido techniques, we welcome any to come learn WITH us and not just FROM us. That way we could enrich all our collective learning experience. Remember, O'Sensei forbade competition- maybe that could apply between dojos as well?

I read somewhere: there are many roads that lead to the summit of Mt. Fuji, but they all lead to the same place. Let's make the journey a pleasant one, and not throw rocks to the travelers on the other trails, huh?

Jun, don't lose the soap box. It's always good to have someone with the guts to say what's on their mind, and to say it loud and clear. We need to air the things that might be controversial. We are all Aikidoka, anyway, surely we can respect each other, even if we don't always agree?

Andy Hertz.
"Standing before me
enemies my mind does not ignore
I take a step forward
and act!"
Morihei Ueshiba
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Cool Rain Productions - Since 1976, the exclusive source for "Aikido in Training" Book/DVD Series



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido in Amsterdam, Terry Lax style... tiyler_durden General 11 11-03-2008 09:31 AM
Mixing Aikido with other martial arts Guilty Spark General 146 05-04-2008 11:10 AM
Women and Everybody Else in Aikido George S. Ledyard Teaching 113 03-16-2008 08:27 PM
Dilution of aikido eugene_lo General 40 02-07-2006 12:22 PM
Omoto-kyo Theology senshincenter Spiritual 77 12-04-2005 10:50 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:34 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate