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Old 10-10-2012, 01:15 PM   #51
Ernesto Lemke
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

Thanks for posting David! I had the audio on quite loud the first time around so I was actually startled by your sudden outburst. Cool!
I noticed how you force yourself to take a lot of steps back, as if to either gain balance or dissipate what you generated. Quick suggestion, you may want to try and see if you can keep that connected feel so that when you "push" your whole body away, you stay in tact. I tried it myself just now and the first time around, I ended up much like you did. In my case my focus was mostly on the upperhalf of the body (little bow/unbow of the back). 2nd time I added a connected feel to the legs (bowing) and ended up with a less dramatic effect but more overall stability. More of a little leap.
Well anyway, FWIW and YMMV and so on and so forth...
Thanks for sharing!

Ernesto
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:56 PM   #52
David Orange
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
As to "fears," I will refrain from all issues of personality. I declared myself only at the instigation of those concerned. I will further say only the following: As a martial tactic, many who doubt themselves are drawn out by such rhetoric as yours -- I do not take anything amiss at all by your use of such devices to do so -- this is my stock in trade after all -- and it is certainly fair game toward your goals.
Mischaracterization of other people's statements is your stock in trade?

As I said before, when I say "fear," I'm not talking about your personality.

That's just ego.

What I'm talking about doesn't even have "personality" so much as a integrated unit of mind, body and ki in operation. There's no need to attribute martial arts responses to "personality."

As I said, it's like your horse balks on the third jump or your car starts shaking at 74 MPH, or you have a leak under your kitchen sink. None of those things have anything to do with "personality." They simply show the results of the training you have undertaken. It can be fixed by training and it will not affect your "personality" at all, except to allow you to express your real personality more fully and easily. It's only ego that makes you equate my statements about your martial congruence as a comment on your "personality."

Where "personality" does come into play is in blaming others for what happens when your kind of training runs into "the real stuff," which is someone whose mind/body/ki have become so congruent through six-direction training (and more) that they have become almost a single, solid unit, almost crystalline in unified harmony. Can't touch that. Or you'll fall down because the frequencies resonating in that crystal shock your system and senses and you can't affect the other person at all.

It seems you can feel this from Dan, across the atmosphere of America, and, unlike the budo spirit of the black belt, you are driven away by it. At the same time, you're drawn to it on the internet and you clearly would like to be included among those with some internal power. Claiming that a teacher like Dan is dangerous and acting in accord with that, guarantees that you, yourself, will not enter that field, like a horse that won't make that particular jump.

Balking on approach is a technical matter that can be fixed through training.

Accusing someone of "being known to hurt people" is an ego trait that can well infect the personality. It is much harder to correct this with training because it lacks certain spiritual elements that are included in the training.

So please consider the difference.

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
As for me, "whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is pleasing, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things."
Really.

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
OK. What results ?
Never mind.

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
I know that the body is several series of connected chains of cylinders. This is obvious. I know and can feel the action of shear in the cylinders of my torso and limbs, and their segments. This is not obvious -- but can be learned. I know that the same principles of shear action that apply to the solid cylinder ALSO apply to the dynamic action of many objects in a chain. This is most certainly not obvious and takes some dwelling on to grasp -- but it is the fact of the matter.
Yes, I can see how your diagram applies in those terms, now.

And now it's clear that this is absolutely NOT the same as I have experienced through Dan, Ark and Rob. They're not ripping your limbs off or breaking you in half, though what they do does nicely facilitate the ability to do that.

To the main engine of what they are doing, your diagram does not apply.

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
I know that this series of connected cylinders has connections that vary in flexibility or stiffness according to my mind and my reflexive physiology. I can feel, observe and deploy this variability to good effect. I know that reflexive action can be molded and modulated by training and become deployable rather than merely reactive action, and in ways that are not predictable. I feel the ways in which those forces and reflexes are deployed and I observe the effects that they have -- dynamically and in setting the potentials within the body.
That's called sensitive technique. It's not what Dan teaches.

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
I gather that the most consequence to the teaching you advocate is in the role played by setting the potentials by mindful guidance in training. I have no doubt if you tell me it is effective. But whether it is more effective or not has never been a concern of mine -- my path is my path, not anyone else's -- nor mine theirs, necesarily.
Quite so, as unique as Graham's.

However, since you concede this, kindly...stop presenting your diagram as an "explanation" of what the IP/IS group is teaching, would you? If "their path" is not yours, what do you get by glomming onto that whole field of endeavor and claiming some kind of inclusion in it?

That's really strange.

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
I won't declare what I know and do to be what anyone else knows or does. Some people seem to take offense. But since you seem genuinely to care, how would you propose that I show you what you would like to see? Seeing as I won't be in Birmingham soon (nor ever have been, FWIW). The Alabama cousins keep to themselves, mostly.
Erick...what offends me is attacking a man's reputation because you, yourself, lack the congruence to walk up and face him and learn the truth. That incongruence gets expressed as "fear" and the ego response has been "blame" of Dan. Your particular personality decided to express that by claiming that Dan has been known to hurt people.

Your problem is not in Alabama.

If you want to comment on Dan's ideas and posts, especially claiming to explain his abilities, then you need to prove that you can do what he does.

That's a tall order since Dan goes constantly all around the world meeting big people and experienced martial artists who cannot do what he does.

But at least have the decency to meet with him and find out for yourself what the real truth is.

David

Last edited by David Orange : 10-10-2012 at 06:01 PM.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:52 PM   #53
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
Well, here's my video of pulsing off the wall. Not much to it, but...FWIW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iusVL...ature=youtu.be

David
lock your arms straight out so you that don't use the arms and shoulders at all and try again.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:58 PM   #54
David Orange
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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lock your arms straight out so you that don't use the arms and shoulders at all and try again.
And I guess I'm not supposed to hold those springs in my hands, either?

An airbag in the wall?

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 10-10-2012, 07:02 PM   #55
David Orange
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
lock your arms straight out so you that don't use the arms and shoulders at all and try again.
That does change things considerably. Right away, I started having to feel the force coming from the center instead of the arms.

I looked at several clips of myself doing ti the first way and selected the two that looked least dependent on shoulder.

But the arms were always bent.

The way you describe is very different.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 10-10-2012, 09:45 PM   #56
David Orange
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
lock your arms straight out so you that don't use the arms and shoulders at all and try again.
OK. Here's two clips where I'm trying to keep the arms straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geQ8r9MEAzM&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vVED...ature=youtu.be

Comments appreciated.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 10-11-2012, 09:23 AM   #57
David Orange
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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OK. Here's two clips where I'm trying to keep the arms straight.

Comments appreciated.
How come your dantiens weren't aligned? Looking at those clips, you clearly don't understand anything about "stacking" the dantiens, which is where you claim to be getting your great power.

So maybe you're doing some kind of trick, but this is clearly not the kind of power we're discussing here.

Not very impressive.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 10-11-2012, 10:05 AM   #58
David Orange
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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Looking at those clips, you clearly don't understand anything about "stacking" the dantiens...

Not very impressive.
I noticed that this morning, myself. Actually, I felt my dantien alignment correcting itself and it felt very nice and right. And then I thought of the videos I did yesterday and I said, "It didn't feel this way when I did the vids. My mind was really more on the video than on my alignment and I was so involved in doing "the trick" that I didn't get all my elements congruent.

So there's what I mean about incongruence of mind/body/ki.

The body has to be organized correctly.
The ki has to be "on" (ki o tsukete) in the whole body, inhabiting all the connective tissue, muscles and bones.
The mind has to be right there with the ki.

It is all managed within the "closed" system of the "self"--the mind/body/ki.

When they're congruent, they're all doing the "same" thing, together, again like the band analogy, each actually doing different things, none doing "the" whole thing, and all their different doings create the final result. When the elements are congruent, each is doing "only" one thing

If the mind is somewhere else in time and space, it can't manage the harmony of ki and body. The dantiens don't slip into their proper alignment (it's a fairly subtle feeling, so there's no room for the mind to be doing something else. And it's not a big effort for the mind (once the basic alignment is understood). The mind doesn't have to strain. It just has to NOT be anywhere but running with the ki throughout the body. This kind of training seems to have less and less to do with outside matters. When your mind becomes like a fluid that courses through your veins and bones....it's different than when it's out flying all over time and space and thinking of all that stuff out there. It's keeping it down inside the body, with the ki, intimately down in every inner turn of the nine crooked paths...not worrying about politics or who said what...and why they were wrong...getting away from all that and cleaving almost heavily to the body...

That's congruence as I'm coming to experience it.

We know the body is "here," definitely.

The mind....well, scientists don't even agree that the mind exists. I say "It thinks. Therefore it am."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldPMi...E2&playnext=27

But the mind can do more than think and more than perceive. It can generate patterns and then create those patterns in the real world. It can fly through time and space. But when it comes to restraining itself to the nine internal crooked paths of the body....it is like a two-year-old child. It wants to run free and play without boundaries. The body is the ultimate boundary, so the mind tries to escape all that. One way to escape is to create patterns internally and reproduce those, somehow, in the "real world," whether it be techniques, organizations, fights, or arguments. Maybe it's just spreading an idea around among people.

So all that is just the mind running away from restricting itself internally to the body.

However, through ardent efforts in harmonizing the mind and the body (awase), the mind begins not to "generate" patterns but to find them within the self. These patterns are the real originals of which many "known" things are just the shadows.

As the mind body and ki become increasingly congruent, each element begins to pronounce itself in more profound ways.

The body becomes soft but correct. It moves easily but it becomes hard to stop and feels heavy and very solid on contact--even though it does not tense or brace but continues its own natural presence.

The mind becomes very penetrating and clear. It can receive information without being confused by abstraction, knowing, too, when to just brush something off. The mind, too, seems soft, but it can produce very heavy and crushing effect as well as "enlightening" effect. And the enlightening may be crushing and heavy--like Zen teachers bopping their students on the head or Jesus delivering one of his unique snappy comebacks. It can focus with the intensity of a laser beam as needed.

The ki becomes clear and smooth, attaining its own true nature, growing stronger and energizing the body. And it also becomes more subtly aware of the ki of the outer world, able to sense more subtle signals from nature and human beings. But far from making one a wizard, sending his ki out for this and that, the internal training leads one to keep the ki at home, and keep the mind there, too.

When each of these elements of "self" has become fully its own true self, and then these purified elements combine>>>>>>????????

The "self" comprising those pure and natural elements is a very different kind of being than before the training began. This is a person prepared to inhabit the center of Heaven/Earth/Man.

That is the kind of person who can stand on the floating bridge of heaven. The phrase describes not a mythological bridge in the air but an actual physical state, attained by training, that produces powerful results from both mind, body and ki.

So let me see if I can get another video up sometime today.

Thanks.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:21 PM   #59
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

David, you have a way with words, my friend. Quite a striking series of descriptions. Thank you for sharing this.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:38 PM   #60
Lee Salzman
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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Josh Philipson wrote: View Post
David, you have a way with words, my friend. Quite a striking series of descriptions. Thank you for sharing this.
Damn straight. That was beautiful.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:21 PM   #61
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

Very eloquent David.

I am reminded of something written by Steven Bachelor;

"We must learn to live vertically instead of horizontally."
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:56 PM   #62
David Orange
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

Thanks, guys. I'm just trying to articulate what I'm experiencing and the changes this training is bringing about, completely apart from martial ability.

Therefore, it might be called academic or speculative BS, like the thing about our ki being able to connect with the ki around us, and through that, with the physical things around us, so that they can actually "support" us from a distance.

That was something I began to feel very subtly and I just threw it out there with the rest--not to say it's not true, but to acknowledge that it might be so subtle as to be, ultimately, meaningless.

But maybe there is something to it.

I post a lot of things hoping someone will chime in and correct me or give me a shift of direction that I can follow.

Yoroshiku.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:44 PM   #63
gregstec
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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Oisin Bourke wrote: View Post
Very eloquent David.

I am reminded of something written by Steven Bachelor;

"We must learn to live vertically instead of horizontally."
That really depends on whether you are on your back or on your feet

Greg
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:17 PM   #64
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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That really depends on whether you are on your back or on your feet

Greg
I don"t think it matters! You still are where you are and you can"t be anywhere else. I"ll have to go off and ponder that one though.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:26 PM   #65
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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Oisin Bourke wrote: View Post
I don"t think it matters! You still are where you are and you can"t be anywhere else. I"ll have to go off and ponder that one though.
Pondering is good - it helps us grow
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:55 AM   #66
Erick Mead
 
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Eric
What you do is what you do......ok with that. My experience tells me that the Aiki Taiso while a movement set of exercises that are functional are missing some of the underlying points that make them truly effective in passing along IP/IS, that would make them a mindful training tool. Only the first level aspects were passed along....don't know if this was purposeful, just forgotten, not known or left for us to find out
.. and probably all of the above ... From my perspective, what I describe as "potentials" exist at the the points of inherent reversal in the aiki taiso. If held in that relaxed extension (pace Tohei) they relate to things I see and feel happening in these issues as shown and discussed. Not saying "the same," but definitely related.

Quote:
Until folks get together to exchange ideas and practice on the mat with a casual setting there will never be a coming together. Of course folks will have to be willing to do this and to not hold on to tightly to concepts and ideas if they don't work.
... and until that opportunity arrives -- we have our own work -- and this way of trying to discuss things, as usefully as we can.

I do not despair that there IS in fact and in rigorous concept, a neutral and objective way of describing things that does not fall back on metaphors or analogy -- though I think any such description should properly capture that all the metaphors and analogies that have proved to be practical aids in training -- and thus demonstrated a concrete relation to the objective action that occurs and which we try to describe. No one has Holy Writ on this.

Thanks.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:26 PM   #67
David Orange
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
.. and probably all of the above ... From my perspective, what I describe as "potentials" exist at the the points of inherent reversal in the aiki taiso. If held in that relaxed extension (pace Tohei) they relate to things I see and feel happening in these issues as shown and discussed. Not saying "the same," but definitely related.
Well, maybe related, abstractly. Why would the potentials exist only at the points of reversal?

Dan is talking about maintaining all the potentials at all points on the body and at every point of any movement. Various forces may have modulations, but the primary power is continually accessible. No wind-up or change of position (maybe no movement at all).

Not to be snarky, though it may sound that way, what if you wrote a book called "Aikido and the Dynamic Tube?"

You could fully explain your whole concept.

But if we think back on Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere...while that may have gone a little over...it had incredible illustrations. Very nice work that clearly described the ideas they represented.

So, in your book, would there be other illustrations than the one you have presented so far? Variations or versions of that one?

Or would you show some other ways to describe your ideas, maybe with human figures?

Because...what if Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere had been illustrated entirely with spheres? Some with lines going this way, some the other, some in black and white. Some with one line red and one line blue? Just remove all the human figures and you pretty much have that.

I just can't think it would have been quite the best seller it was (at least in aikido circles--I love my copy).

So I guess what I'm saying is, if you can't somehow demonstrate or meet with someone else, could you maybe draw a picture of what you're describing, with one or as many human figures as needed?

I put up my clip. Multiple clips. I even went in and made a snarky reply to my own post.

Could you just show us something that ties it all back to human beings?

Thanks.

David

Last edited by David Orange : 10-12-2012 at 12:29 PM.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:28 PM   #68
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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David Orange wrote: View Post
I put up my clip. Multiple clips. I even went in and made a snarky reply to my own post.

Could you just show us something that ties it all back to human beings?
David
I was wondering about that. Fair enough. And with Phi's locked arm, full extended shoulders profile in the first instance. Here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGrUAWVG6k0

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:56 PM   #69
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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Well, maybe related, abstractly. Why would the potentials exist only at the points of reversal?
Technically, because a dynamic is no longer a potential. That's what potential means. In-yo operates in continuously complementary potential/dynamic. When a yo potential becomes dynamic -- it loses its potential, but the yin potential increases in inverse proportion until the yo dynamic is either exhausted or stopped - at which time yin potential is instantly and fully available. If one dynamic reaches any limit (i.e. -is stopped at any point) it simply returns instantly to the release the opposite potential into its dynamic, the same as when you reach the limit of the body's own extension in various aiki taiso. The actual spatial extension of limbs or the action is irrelevant -- as the pulse exercise shows.

So potential does not only exist at the end of the extension of the various aiki taiso exercises -- but that is where the potential can usually be felt FELT as a pure potential at a passive point -- without conscious intent (or trained action) to create it -- Also, the dynamic is naturally bled out to eliminate the noise of action from the perception of the potential in the pure structural condition at a natural dynamic limit.

The aiki taiso gives a reference point one does not have guess at as much for the bodily sensation to know what to aim for in training. That is, at least my perspective of it. Admittedly, they are done badly for this purpose in many, many places.

It is a reverberatory (oscillatory) conservation of momentum -- (yamabiko) -- even when not moving, that potential can be poised and held in the structure -- like this pulse example you prompted. It has long period undulatory aspects (the "demon snake" funetori, udefuri, (and I would say -- all conventional waza). It also has short period vibratory or pulse aspects (the "spirit of bees," furitama, tekubifuri, pulse strikes like the example at hand).

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:24 PM   #70
David Orange
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
I was wondering about that. Fair enough. And with Phi's locked arm, full extended shoulders profile in the first instance. Here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGrUAWVG6k0
Do you feel like that's the same?

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:30 PM   #71
David Orange
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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Technically, because a dynamic is no longer a potential.
Why would it be a dynamic if there's no movement?

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
That's what potential means. In-yo operates in continuously complementary potential/dynamic. When a yo potential becomes dynamic -- it loses its potential, but the yin potential increases in inverse proportion until the yo dynamic is either exhausted or stopped - at which time yin potential is instantly and fully available. If one dynamic reaches any limit (i.e. -is stopped at any point) it simply returns instantly to the release the opposite potential into its dynamic, the same as when you reach the limit of the body's own extension in various aiki taiso. The actual spatial extension of limbs or the action is irrelevant -- as the pulse exercise shows.
I'm not sure it's coming through to the physical world, Erick.

Your clip looks a little...koshi-centric, we might say.

Do you see that?

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:22 PM   #72
David Orange
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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Your clip looks a little...koshi-centric, we might say.
Also, your legs are bent a good bit before the pulse and they straighten with the pulse, so that your center displaces to the rear ahead of both your head and your feet. The leg extension also turns it into a bit of a jump.

I could see some of that in my own second video, but much less in the first and third. And while the first could be attributed to a lot of arm, the third comes from pretty straight arms, straight legs and very little shoulder. But none of the clips shows the correct alignment of the three dantiens, so the power in my clips is still pretty low.

Why don't you try it with straight legs?

And what about push-out? Many examples of Ark's style can be seen. Can you demonstrate that?

This pulse off the wall is almost exactly the same, but with the arms fully extended. The pulse must come with both arms and legs already fully extended.

David

Last edited by David Orange : 10-12-2012 at 09:26 PM.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
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Old 10-14-2012, 01:33 PM   #73
Erick Mead
 
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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David Orange wrote: View Post
Your clip looks a little...koshi-centric, we might say.

Do you see that?
Sure. Same as yours, your shirt just makes it less apparent-- but your hips pop out first, as well (At least in your second one -- your first and third were taken down. )

That is to be expected if it is is done as a pure reaction transfer back from the wall (see below) .

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David Orange wrote: View Post
Also, your legs are bent a good bit before the pulse and they straighten with the pulse, so that your center displaces to the rear ahead of both your head and your feet. The leg extension also turns it into a bit of a jump.
Not actually. The lower center is where the power comes from to generate the pulse action -- and thus -- if the structure is at full extension (rigid in essence) that is where the wall's reaction is seen -- showing that everything above the lower dantien is in the precise line of the delivery of the momentum transfer pulse. Newton's Cradle .

If anything else were out of line it would buckle at that point -- If my shoulder moved back first, you would know the power was from the upper cross or arms. The center buckles because everything else was in line. Since it was not bounded for the input -- it is not bounded for the output either -- if -- the body is transferring the pure reaction. The only things that move are at the end of the momentum transfer chain at that center -- and the legs are just being pulled along.

If you actually go and do the stop motion on it you will see my center drive about an inch forward to generate the pulse -- and that's where the return reaction arrives, in a pure reaction chain ( which in this case is coming form both the wall and the ground. Both reactions arrive at the same time and the center buckles to the rear -- like my taped together pencils buckle upward (in my other video) when compressed from both ends -- the hips are driven up and back -- and only then do the legs lengthen to follow.

If I ground the strike and do this while in contact with a person they are driven back about the same amount. Essentially, we just punched ourselves with a reflection of the no-inch punch off the wall. Like a wave reflected off the beach.

But you know, these kinds of isolated linear power transfer things are not the most interesting behaviors that multiple pendulums exhibit -- And those are unlinked pendulums --

If we link them, things get even more interesting considering that every one of our limbs is a linked double pendulum -- Run the java app for a bit and look at the pattern it generates on the graph and then go and look at my "dynamic tube" of torsional shear again.

FWIW -- the "three dantiens" form an inverted double pendulum. -- which is stable in the inverted position -- if and only if it is oscillating on its support . I believe we aikidoka call that condition furitama-- The pulse is simply half of that native stability oscillation halted suddenly against a barrier (a target or the earth) -- creating a unidirectional wave peak.
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Why don't you try it with straight legs?
Well, I didn't because it's your exercise, you had not suggested it, and phi did not correct anything on that point...

Second, because it is unnatural and unstable for the legs to be completely rigid more than instantaneously to transfer energy -- which they were.

Plus -- Tiggers bounce....

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:57 PM   #74
David Orange
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

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Sure. Same as yours, your shirt just makes it less apparent-- but your hips pop out first, as well (At least in your second one -- your first and third were taken down. )
No, they're still up. You just look directly under the word "Straight" in the title, where it says 8 videos, and click for a list.

And I may be biased but I think the rear movement of the hips is much less in the third and first, but especially the third.

And you'll see that my legs are not bent at all, straight, as they would be in the push out exercise.

Yours, in fact, are well bent before the pulse and you extend them as part of the pulse, so it is more of a jump than a whole-body pulse.

The way you describe "driving" with your center is also not what is meant in this context. We're talking about a release of power with almost no movement (and one inch driving with the center as you describe it is a good bit of movement).

The legs can't "lengthen to follow" the hips if they're already straight. And if you've actually been jumping, they won't be going anywhere anyway if you try to do it with straight legs.

So to watch what you're doing, you don't seem to be generating your results in any way related to IP, but just through regular external movement.

You're talking mechanical movement when we're talking something closer to electrical. It requires proper mechanics, but they're different than those used to produce the muscular power you're showing.

(on why you don't try it with straight legs)
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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
Well, I didn't because it's your exercise, you had not suggested it, and phi did not correct anything on that point...
Well I showed it with straight legs. Compare the two vids--well, yours to any of mine--and tell me again it's the same when you look at the leg movement.

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
Second, because it is unnatural and unstable for the legs to be completely rigid more than instantaneously to transfer energy -- which they were.
Well, that should be obvious. As in push-out, it's there to limit you and make you find power from a completely different source. You're using the same source as everyone external.

Your comments about undulating pendula also miss the point concerning the three dantiens. The relation of the dantiens is not the same as between pendulums singly or doubly connected. The use of the connective tissue damps out the possible oscillations, which are really just the "wobble" of an unstable body and which bleed off the power in transit from the ground to the hand. That's why "aligning" the three dantiens is important. That's why when I felt the alignment becoming self-adjusting through habit induced by awareness from training, I intuited suddenly that I could do this pulse off the wall and presented my ideas for review.

I got feedback and I responded to it with two extra videos for critique because I am sincere in seeking really to understand this subject, both in my mind and in my body.

I hope you'll see this comment in that light because within your incongruence I do some light of sincerity in your comments. You're just completely misunderstanding the topic.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

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Old 10-14-2012, 07:56 PM   #75
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Re: More on Aikido and the Floating Bridge of Heaven

Hya David

I really enjoyed reading your posts...beautifully written..

I was a bit surprised by your pulsing video and went off to try it just for fun. I don't get why you would want to knock yourself backwards though or what benefit there is to that? I don't move position but tanden and other things will adjust to keep me stable in the same position.

I'm guessing it's the wall that should be moving...be difficult to do though ^^

All the best

Lee
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