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Old 07-02-2012, 10:30 AM   #26
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
Tohei used to hop and skip all the time.....

Greg
Ah, very true. It's all to do with the hips ie: Hip-Hop..

Peace.G.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:53 PM   #27
Richard Stevens
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Re: It happens to the best of them

I once tripped on my hakama and went face first into the mat... while holding a sword. Life is nicer if you have Mr. Christian on your ignore list.
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:02 PM   #28
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
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Re: It happens to the best of them

`Graham moving`

To be honest I thought Grahams hand flourishes were just like Osensei - ( O-sensei Harold Brosious )

Henry Ellis
Co-author `Positive Aikido`
http://aikido-bracknell.blogspot.com/
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:06 PM   #29
Rob Watson
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Quote:
Stephen Nichol wrote: View Post
... I tripped on a Hakama once...

Yeah, I am pretty sure that does not mean I am 'doing it like Ueshiba' either though...

Look more closely ... someone is standing on the hak. Can't tell exactly but it looks like Mr. Chiba.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:47 PM   #30
Gorgeous George
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Quote:
Richard Stevens wrote: View Post
Life is nicer if you have Mr. Christian on your ignore list.
+1

He's ruined this 'site for me.
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:45 PM   #31
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Quote:
Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
Quote:
Richard Stevens wrote:
Life is nicer if you have Mr. Christian on your ignore list.
+1
He's ruined this 'site for me.
No comment on individual people, but if you go to any budo site for the arts that rely on kata and forms you will find truly spaced out, bonkers, kind of people that are nothing more than entertainment. You see them in Taiji, Aikido, Karate, anywhere where they cannot be tested by people on those same forums who can offer real pressure. I have seen some that were so far gone that their videos are now famous and are frequently put up on the screen at budo parties. There is simply no end to them in arts that don't let you challenge them. Which is why you only find them in those arts. Have you ever seen them in large numbers in Judo or Bjj or MMA? Nope, they would get the S#$% kicked out of themselves for daring to use the name of those arts. Many of us just use these people to forward discussions as perfect examples of "What not to do" in real budo. As such they are productive on any forum to show all of the errors and things to avoid.

I'll leave you to discuss the who's who. I just wouldn't be worried about who habituates forums. The upside of having all types on the net is that we get to meet people with very real skills and information who will interface and share. This is leading to meet ups and real sharing. Trust me the odd balls of the internet, will NEVER...EVER, appear on a mat with those who everyone knows are the real deal. Thus they hound the forums since it is the only place they can really survive.

Think positively. Welcome them as discussion starters and entertainment. Really, no one of credibility takes any of them seriously, and the juniors who do...well, it's only a matter of time before they learn. Usually they just have to put their hands on someone with real Aikido or taiji skills and then they're on their way to good budo.

I love the IP/aiki discussion in that you just simply cannot B.S. your way out of it. Shihans and Shodans alike, fail on contact. It's over before it begins. And those getting educated in IP/aiki, are spotting the imposters as they simply walk across a room. An ever increasing number of Aikido teachers can disqualify Shihan pretenders just watching them move. And the rest of the Budo people sit there and wonder how you knew? I call it before I even touch hands, and it's over. So reading some of these peoples writings as they go on and on about what they think they know....is really amusing for many people reading.
So, cheer up. People are listening, meeting and training. They get it. George Ledyard once said,"This might be the best time to be alive in budo." Why? We are getting to meet with some interesting teachers who will ACTUALLY teach!!! And some of them are funny as hell.
And look...we're building bridges between the arts and making friends. Not bad considering their past.

Dan

Last edited by DH : 07-02-2012 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:07 PM   #32
DH
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
Look more closely ... someone is standing on the hak. Can't tell exactly but it looks like Mr. Chiba.
I think so too.
It is kinda cool to see how together Ueshiba is, even during and after the fall!!
Dan
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:11 PM   #33
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: It happens to the best of them

I came to this late.... out of town.

At first I was tempted to take the O-Sensei video at face value and assume that the Founder's knees were simply older than his perpetually youthful attitude about waza, i.e his knee gave out when he dropped and he tipped over. But after many viewings I can clearly see that I was wrong in this.

Clearly O-Sensei was executing a movement from the "drunken monkey" style of Aikido, not taught publicly. What appeared to be a knee collapsing was really a masterful use of the neutral pivot point or "jiku point" allowing the Founder to give the appearance of falling sideways (thereby avoiding any strike that would have been coming at his head from the rear).

The hand he put down that appeared to be supporting him as he pushed up was actually a manifestation of the vertical dimension as shown in the "aiki cross"... his ki clearly in balance out of the palm and the shoulder simultaneously. It served as an anchor to the Earth should he have chosen to project his legs up for a spinning kick.

The uninitiated might well believe that he was slightly unstable as he got up as evidenced by his back and forth motion as he got his hips underneath him again. But that would only show their low level of understanding as it is clear to anyone with deeper knowledge of internal power and the spiritual world of Shinto that the Founder was demonstrating the very advanced concept of the "floating boat on a rough sea" as described in the Kojiki. What appears to be somewhat unstable movement is in reality an extremely advanced technique for projecting a wave like energy outwards thereby making ones opponent unstable and is one of the secret techniques of Daito Ryu.

I am continually appalled at the low level of discussion on the forums by people who profess to know better. How Dan could have thought that this man, the greatest martial artist of all time had merely fallen down is a testament to the infinite subtlety of the Founder's aiki.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:14 PM   #34
Chris Li
 
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
I came to this late.... out of town.

At first I was tempted to take the O-Sensei video at face value and assume that the Founder's knees were simply older than his perpetually youthful attitude about waza, i.e his knee gave out when he dropped and he tipped over. But after many viewings I can clearly see that I was wrong in this.

Clearly O-Sensei was executing a movement from the "drunken monkey" style of Aikido, not taught publicly. What appeared to be a knee collapsing was really a masterful use of the neutral pivot point or "jiku point" allowing the Founder to give the appearance of falling sideways (thereby avoiding any strike that would have been coming at his head from the rear).

The hand he put down that appeared to be supporting him as he pushed up was actually a manifestation of the vertical dimension as shown in the "aiki cross"... his ki clearly in balance out of the palm and the shoulder simultaneously. It served as an anchor to the Earth should he have chosen to project his legs up for a spinning kick.

The uninitiated might well believe that he was slightly unstable as he got up as evidenced by his back and forth motion as he got his hips underneath him again. But that would only show their low level of understanding as it is clear to anyone with deeper knowledge of internal power and the spiritual world of Shinto that the Founder was demonstrating the very advanced concept of the "floating boat on a rough sea" as described in the Kojiki. What appears to be somewhat unstable movement is in reality an extremely advanced technique for projecting a wave like energy outwards thereby making ones opponent unstable and is one of the secret techniques of Daito Ryu.

I am continually appalled at the low level of discussion on the forums by people who profess to know better. How Dan could have thought that this man, the greatest martial artist of all time had merely fallen down is a testament to the infinite subtlety of the Founder's aiki.


+1

Best,

Chris

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Old 07-02-2012, 05:19 PM   #35
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
I came to this late.... out of town.

At first I was tempted to take the O-Sensei video at face value and assume that the Founder's knees were simply older than his perpetually youthful attitude about waza, i.e his knee gave out when he dropped and he tipped over. But after many viewings I can clearly see that I was wrong in this.

Clearly O-Sensei was executing a movement from the "drunken monkey" style of Aikido, not taught publicly. What appeared to be a knee collapsing was really a masterful use of the neutral pivot point or "jiku point" allowing the Founder to give the appearance of falling sideways (thereby avoiding any strike that would have been coming at his head from the rear).

The hand he put down that appeared to be supporting him as he pushed up was actually a manifestation of the vertical dimension as shown in the "aiki cross"... his ki clearly in balance out of the palm and the shoulder simultaneously. It served as an anchor to the Earth should he have chosen to project his legs up for a spinning kick.

The uninitiated might well believe that he was slightly unstable as he got up as evidenced by his back and forth motion as he got his hips underneath him again. But that would only show their low level of understanding as it is clear to anyone with deeper knowledge of internal power and the spiritual world of Shinto that the Founder was demonstrating the very advanced concept of the "floating boat on a rough sea" as described in the Kojiki. What appears to be somewhat unstable movement is in reality an extremely advanced technique for projecting a wave like energy outwards thereby making ones opponent unstable and is one of the secret techniques of Daito Ryu.

I am continually appalled at the low level of discussion on the forums by people who profess to know better. How Dan could have thought that this man, the greatest martial artist of all time had merely fallen down is a testament to the infinite subtlety of the Founder's aiki.
Priceless. Thanks George!
Dan
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:49 PM   #36
Hilary
Dojo: Torrey Pines Aiki Kai
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 65
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Everyone makes mistakes, it is how you recover that counts. At a high skill level the mistakes are harder to see because nage transitions to something that works and everyone thinks that the technique was simply more sophisticated. The less idealized and more realistic the attack the greater the likelihood of your initial technique going south. My sensei often has us working off of the second and third strikes to allow for centered ukes (have to draw them out because experienced fighters are not going to give you their center easily). Getting off topic so I'll quit.

That having been said holey mackerel if you can fight in a hakama you can fight in anything (I have big feet, always getting caught).
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:55 PM   #37
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Quote:
Richard Stevens wrote: View Post
I once tripped on my hakama and went face first into the mat... while holding a sword. Life is nicer if you have Mr. Christian on your ignore list.
I once had to do an Iai technique (a vertically leaping technique with a change of feet) in front of everyone. I drew...leaped up...and was firmly planted to the earth with my back foot on my own Hakama. I was forth with -and rather promptly- planted on my own ass...with a sword in my hand!!
Cough....
It was a very looong time before everyone stopped laughing.
Dan
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:24 AM   #38
philipsmith
Dojo: Ren Shin Kan
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 312
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
I came to this late.... out of town.

At first I was tempted to take the O-Sensei video at face value and assume that the Founder's knees were simply older than his perpetually youthful attitude about waza, i.e his knee gave out when he dropped and he tipped over. But after many viewings I can clearly see that I was wrong in this.

Clearly O-Sensei was executing a movement from the "drunken monkey" style of Aikido, not taught publicly. What appeared to be a knee collapsing was really a masterful use of the neutral pivot point or "jiku point" allowing the Founder to give the appearance of falling sideways (thereby avoiding any strike that would have been coming at his head from the rear).

The hand he put down that appeared to be supporting him as he pushed up was actually a manifestation of the vertical dimension as shown in the "aiki cross"... his ki clearly in balance out of the palm and the shoulder simultaneously. It served as an anchor to the Earth should he have chosen to project his legs up for a spinning kick.

The uninitiated might well believe that he was slightly unstable as he got up as evidenced by his back and forth motion as he got his hips underneath him again. But that would only show their low level of understanding as it is clear to anyone with deeper knowledge of internal power and the spiritual world of Shinto that the Founder was demonstrating the very advanced concept of the "floating boat on a rough sea" as described in the Kojiki. What appears to be somewhat unstable movement is in reality an extremely advanced technique for projecting a wave like energy outwards thereby making ones opponent unstable and is one of the secret techniques of Daito Ryu.

I am continually appalled at the low level of discussion on the forums by people who profess to know better. How Dan could have thought that this man, the greatest martial artist of all time had merely fallen down is a testament to the infinite subtlety of the Founder's aiki.
That gave me a chuckle on a very wet Tuesday morning!
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:07 AM   #39
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
Look more closely ... someone is standing on the hak. Can't tell exactly but it looks like Mr. Chiba.
So, this begs the question: "Did he do it on purpose"

Greg
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:36 AM   #40
Rob Watson
Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 698
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
I came to this late.... out of town.

At first I was tempted to take the O-Sensei video at face value and assume that the Founder's knees were simply older than his perpetually youthful attitude about waza, i.e his knee gave out when he dropped and he tipped over. But after many viewings I can clearly see that I was wrong in this.

Clearly O-Sensei was executing a movement from the "drunken monkey" style of Aikido, not taught publicly. What appeared to be a knee collapsing was really a masterful use of the neutral pivot point or "jiku point" allowing the Founder to give the appearance of falling sideways (thereby avoiding any strike that would have been coming at his head from the rear).

The hand he put down that appeared to be supporting him as he pushed up was actually a manifestation of the vertical dimension as shown in the "aiki cross"... his ki clearly in balance out of the palm and the shoulder simultaneously. It served as an anchor to the Earth should he have chosen to project his legs up for a spinning kick.

The uninitiated might well believe that he was slightly unstable as he got up as evidenced by his back and forth motion as he got his hips underneath him again. But that would only show their low level of understanding as it is clear to anyone with deeper knowledge of internal power and the spiritual world of Shinto that the Founder was demonstrating the very advanced concept of the "floating boat on a rough sea" as described in the Kojiki. What appears to be somewhat unstable movement is in reality an extremely advanced technique for projecting a wave like energy outwards thereby making ones opponent unstable and is one of the secret techniques of Daito Ryu.

I am continually appalled at the low level of discussion on the forums by people who profess to know better. How Dan could have thought that this man, the greatest martial artist of all time had merely fallen down is a testament to the infinite subtlety of the Founder's aiki.
Hold the fort! Everyone knows that super secret techique comes from drunken monkey style (Yang familiy - not that Chen garbage) - a style only known to exist on the eastern slopes of Wudan mountain deep in China. There is your chinese origin link right in plain sight! Even more notable is that in drunken monkey there are no hakamas so Ueshiba is once again seen to be a great innovator in combining ancient secret chinese arts with contemporary japanese fashion. We should all be glad he chose the hakama instead of fundoshi. I look great in fundoshi but I'm not so sure about the rest of youse guys. Drunken monkey in fundoshi is really quite wrong no matter what bridge spans heaven and earth. Plain wrong ... unless fundoshi is pink and tied 'gangsta' style then it is ok. Except on Tuesdays. I believe there is a doka on this matter - I'll have to check my notes.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:37 AM   #41
davoravo
Location: New Zealand
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Nvm, my serious question regarding ueshiba's raised rear heel at the end of technique had been overtaken by comedy

David McNamara
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:59 AM   #42
Janet Rosen
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Quote:
David McNamara wrote: View Post
Nvm, my serious question regarding ueshiba's raised rear heel at the end of technique had been overtaken by comedy
David, I can tell you that I know of one high ranking aikidoka, the late Kanai Sensei, who specifically taught this as proper stance.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:03 PM   #43
davoravo
Location: New Zealand
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Thank you Janet, I think most of my teachers would have pulled me up on that as an error so it was interesting to see. I can see it relates to a well planted front foot, possibly sending energy down into the ground, but he also does a little pop up at times.

David McNamara
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:25 PM   #44
AllanF
Location: Shenyang
Join Date: Nov 2009
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China
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Re: It happens to the best of them

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
No comment on individual people, but if you go to any budo site for the arts that rely on kata and forms you will find truly spaced out, bonkers, kind of people that are nothing more than entertainment. You see them in Taiji, Aikido, Karate, anywhere where they cannot be tested by people on those same forums who can offer real pressure...
Hey i resemble that accusation !!
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