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Old 06-26-2012, 10:42 AM   #201
Chris Knight
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Is that Asian or vajayjay?

Chris
its an old yorkshire saying i believe

Chris
 
Old 06-26-2012, 11:05 AM   #202
DH
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
If spiritual is described as connection and compassion (quick description not just limited to that) and not religion, Ki has everything to do with it. The energy that connects the physical to the emotional, in my opinion, is the spiritual. Aikido practiced with an emphasis on Ki development enhances that awareness.
Good grief
This is a whole lot of.... nothing useful. Nor will it accomplish anything in Aikido.

Discussions of beliefs; I believe, she believes, I feel...he thinks...etc., have produced the same delightful meanderings as Joe Currans comments. Listen, blending every term and item you could think of; Chinese/Indian concepts of Yin Yang /In Jo /Ki /Prana/ ascetic practices/Misogi/ and add in Grahams wanderings/wonderings of chakras producing power will add up to the production of exactly..........nothing.

Neither will such stellar teaching advice as:
"Move insides"
"Just relax"
"Make connect"
"Make a four legged animal"
"See? Absorb....take in."
"Make correct feeling"
"Move from center"

There are very real methods and means to use the mind to produce physical results that seem otherworldy and weird, almost inexplicable. The asian knew this and codified many of these models and had teachings with catch phrases. the same phrases that Ueshiba was using. Those of us who know what moves what, what ki was and how to manipulate and strengthen it and how to train in the existing Asian model that Ueshiba was quoting over and over...to ACTUALLY CONNECT THE BODY, then connect to force coming in....will forever dominate those pursuing only the spiritual path...
Ueshiba knew this all to well and his spiritual pursuit NEVER produced the power you are all hoping for. It was his pursuit of the classic internal strength model that produced the aiki everyone is shooting for. Your lack of understanding of this simple fact does nothing to strengthen any case or belief to the contrary. Ignorance of these simple facts, is not a good foundation for an argument.
For those who pursue the correct model, as Ueshiba did? We will control you...take your center...defeat you...force you to harmonize with us...and we will be the center and focus of every engagement that takes place.
Why?
The spiritual only model simply cannot produce the results the real Asian model of internal strength that Ueshiba pursued, can.
Why?
Because that spiritual only model never existed on the earth in Budo and it never will. You do not know what you are talking about when it comes to the source of power in the Asian arts.....and that really is all there is to it.

Don't agree? Step on mat in front of witnesses!
It is happening around the world and those of you who only follow this nebulous, kitchen sink, shamanistic, "I practice everything spiritual" approach have a 100% failure rate and you always will. It's not your fault. What you are chasing doesn't exist and never has in Budo and yields nothing of practical value in Budo.

Now...
Past producing physical results? Pick your poison. "Spirituality" is a never-never land of real and actual experiences as well as hocus pocus people convinced themselves was real. People have been uplifted, enlightened, grown, been had and conned... and have also argued and fought over religion as long as people have existed.

Fortunately, what people in Budo went looking and hoping for that produces real power and a change in them both physically and perhaps spiritually actually does exist. You just have to know where to find it....and that, is a good thing for many people

Dan

Last edited by DH : 06-26-2012 at 11:14 AM.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 11:49 AM   #203
graham christian
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
I read all four parts of the aikido journal article and didn't find the incident you mentioned above. I did find, at the end of part 3, where he mentioned O'sensei's incident though. He did have a lot of interesting things to say about ki and some of the other interpretations of it out there though. You should reread it yourself, great stuff. Also, there are the other examples from his book that were quite clearly not spiritual exercises, but physical ones. If you want to say that stuff is spiritual for you, fine, go for it, but don't go off saying that his stuff was because he seems to have gone to pretty great lengths to leave that out of what he was doing.
You didn't find it? Funny how many can't see when it suits.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 11:53 AM   #204
graham christian
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Graham,
My old great granddad fought in France in the first World War.He sustained injuries to his stomach area.Now lots of soldiers have been in battle and had bullets flying around them.Thats expected when some guy is trying to knock you off.The enemy is not firing custard pies at his enemy.So Graham , my old great granddad had the same experiences, so does this make himin effect the same as Tohei Sensei?I think not.Your logic is flawed.All that Tohei Sensei said was he in effect had a clear mind.Try as others have suggested and give more relevant facts/documentation to support your theories.Cheers, Joe.
Joe, try reading it and listening to his own experience. Try relating it to the subject he was asked about which led him to come up with that incident. Try putting them together to actually get the concept of what he was saying.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 12:21 PM   #205
graham christian
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
I am not familar with any such event in Tohei's life and a googling of "tohei dodging bullets" only provides me with Ueshiba's story, not Tohei's. So please, provide citations to support what you said. I will readily admit that I made a mistake.

Maybe not everyone, just the ones who question and disagree with you?
Quote:
How did you originally come to formulate kiatsu?

I had already realized the reality of “mind,” but it was during my experience on the battlefield during the war that I was able to physically confirm this. With bullets flying all around, my life energy became vigorous and I could drink muddy water without developing stomach problems. But, as soon as I returned to a relatively safer area, my mind relaxed and I became ill. This showed me the importance of one’s state of mind.
Think you'll find bullets in there. He was relating the incident in response to the question on how he formulated Kiatsu. Relating it to the universal life energy and the effect of it, the magical effect of it. Then the different effect when it wasn't active in the same way.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This follows paragraphs explaining the universal Ki and how he managed to throw sumo wrestler using Ki. It also follows explaining how it's the reason he called it shin shin toitsu to show it's not to do with physical fighting.

Plus he explains how body and mind are mere clothing in comparison. He goes on to say therefor making Ki stronger is the thing to do not the clothes.

Funny how I know these things and the effect it has on those who don't. They go on to say it means I am saying they don't know.

Peace,G.

Last edited by akiy : 06-26-2012 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tag
 
Old 06-26-2012, 12:39 PM   #206
graham christian
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
I am with you on this - When I think of Tohei and his stuff, spiritual just does not come into mind - ki is what Tohei was all about and Ki is not a spiritual thing; it is simply an energy that bridges the mental to the physical.

Greg
I'm glad you explained that Greg. This explains to me why so many including I/P misunderstand. What a great big fundamental misunderstanding.

No wonder many see spiritual as "something else" and even deny when they are doing spiritual and call it mental or 'just some energy'.

Treating Ki like some mechanical thing is a fine example of missing the point.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 12:53 PM   #207
DH
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Treating Ki like some mechanical thing is a fine example of missing the point.

Peace.G.
Redefining ki to fit your individual use is meaningless and so "new age" Western.
Many Japanese teachers...who have no power either.. discuss it just as freely. Sort of like they all talk about how to use a sword with little to no training of how to actually use one!! And westerners have no way of measuring or judging until they get a better education and realize that not some...but MOST Japanese teachers don't really have a clue about teaching sword and would never even try or ever be taken seriously back home.

I say Ki is praying to bananas in seiza! There I said it.
And from now on I could go round the world hitting and throwing people....and then substantiate my skill by stating that I hit so hard and throw so well because I pray to bananas in seiza...and they should too.
I won't mention what I was really doing all these years.

Confusing Ueshiba's spiritual pursuits with his physical internal strength training is just as stupid.
Dan
 
Old 06-26-2012, 01:25 PM   #208
graham christian
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Redefining ki to fit your individual use is meaningless and so "new age" Western.
Many Japanese teachers...who have no power either.. discuss it just as freely. Sort of like they all talk about how to use a sword with little to no training of how to actually use one!! And westerners have no way of measuring or judging until they get a better education and realize that not some...but MOST Japanese teachers don't really have a clue about teaching sword and would never even try or ever be taken seriously back home.

I say Ki is praying to bananas in seiza! There I said it.
And from now on I could go round the world hitting and throwing people....and then substantiate my skill by stating that I hit so hard and throw so well because I pray to bananas in seiza...and they should too.
I won't mention what I was really doing all these years.

Confusing Ueshiba's spiritual pursuits with his physical internal strength training is just as stupid.
Dan
Nice clothes Dan. Maybe you should start a thread called physical Aikido

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 01:35 PM   #209
sakumeikan
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Good grief
This is a whole lot of.... nothing useful. Nor will it accomplish anything in Aikido.

Discussions of beliefs; I believe, she believes, I feel...he thinks...etc., have produced the same delightful meanderings as Joe Currans comments. Listen, blending every term and item you could think of; Chinese/Indian concepts of Yin Yang /In Jo /Ki /Prana/ ascetic practices/Misogi/ and add in Grahams wanderings/wonderings of chakras producing power will add up to the production of exactly..........nothing.

Neither will such stellar teaching advice as:
"Move insides"
"Just relax"
"Make connect"
"Make a four legged animal"
"See? Absorb....take in."
"Make correct feeling"
"Move from center"

There are very real methods and means to use the mind to produce physical results that seem otherworldy and weird, almost inexplicable. The asian knew this and codified many of these models and had teachings with catch phrases. the same phrases that Ueshiba was using. Those of us who know what moves what, what ki was and how to manipulate and strengthen it and how to train in the existing Asian model that Ueshiba was quoting over and over...to ACTUALLY CONNECT THE BODY, then connect to force coming in....will forever dominate those pursuing only the spiritual path...
Ueshiba knew this all to well and his spiritual pursuit NEVER produced the power you are all hoping for. It was his pursuit of the classic internal strength model that produced the aiki everyone is shooting for. Your lack of understanding of this simple fact does nothing to strengthen any case or belief to the contrary. Ignorance of these simple facts, is not a good foundation for an argument.
For those who pursue the correct model, as Ueshiba did? We will control you...take your center...defeat you...force you to harmonize with us...and we will be the center and focus of every engagement that takes place.
Why?
The spiritual only model simply cannot produce the results the real Asian model of internal strength that Ueshiba pursued, can.
Why?
Because that spiritual only model never existed on the earth in Budo and it never will. You do not know what you are talking about when it comes to the source of power in the Asian arts.....and that really is all there is to it.

Don't agree? Step on mat in front of witnesses!
It is happening around the world and those of you who only follow this nebulous, kitchen sink, shamanistic, "I practice everything spiritual" approach have a 100% failure rate and you always will. It's not your fault. What you are chasing doesn't exist and never has in Budo and yields nothing of practical value in Budo.

Now...
Past producing physical results? Pick your poison. "Spirituality" is a never-never land of real and actual experiences as well as hocus pocus people convinced themselves was real. People have been uplifted, enlightened, grown, been had and conned... and have also argued and fought over religion as long as people have existed.

Fortunately, what people in Budo went looking and hoping for that produces real power and a change in them both physically and perhaps spiritually actually does exist. You just have to know where to find it....and that, is a good thing for many people

Dan
Dear Dan,
I just love meandering.Passes the time of day before I read your stuff.At least I keep my meanderings short , more than I can say for you.Tell me Dan, have you ever been at Za Zen training or practiced Misogi?Its no picnic. Well I am off to meander in the direction of my fridge, get a cold beer and sit with my feet up.Have a nice. Cheers, Joe.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 01:56 PM   #210
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Spiritual produces strong mind and strong body. So many I have met over the years doing spiritual practices and martial arts who just won't let go of physical thinking and thus see themselves in the future as some kind of superman. S on the chest et. al.

Stuck in physical, stuck in identity, stuck in bravado. Stuck.

I saw a nice quote recently, "I am not a human enjoying a spiritual experience, I am a spirit enjoying the human experience"

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 01:57 PM   #211
gregstec
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
I'm glad you explained that Greg. This explains to me why so many including I/P misunderstand. What a great big fundamental misunderstanding.

No wonder many see spiritual as "something else" and even deny when they are doing spiritual and call it mental or 'just some energy'.

Treating Ki like some mechanical thing is a fine example of missing the point.

Peace.G.
I see Ki as Tohei did - it is universal and it is in all things and it is not a magical thing; it is simply another form of energy existing at a level not yet discernible in the electromagnetic spectrum - however, that does not mean we can not see the results of its existence in the things it interacts with on a physical level. If anyone wants to explain away a physical science they cannot understand by applying a spiritual or mystic tag to it, then feel free to do so - just don't expect others that may have more experience in that area to agree with you.

Greg
 
Old 06-26-2012, 01:59 PM   #212
Alister Gillies
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
I see it this way. Spiritual form love to light to spirit et.al all work together in the true nature of things thus they all welcome, support, invite , 'hug' each other.

The mind however produces many fears and negatives Including the concept of death. Being attatched to such ways of thinking we may feel it's good to hug death but to me that's mental not spiritual.

An interesting thought I offer you:

I said earlier that in the way I do Aikido it goes spirit-mind-body. In that order and indeed I would say that order of importance and that order of magnitude.

Now for those who believe in a different order then this is what generally happens. They have the mind leading the spirit. Thus they have the spirit doing negatively according to the minds instructions and thus against it's true nature. Thus ego rules.

Peace.G.
Mind, body and spirit represent a trinity. One is not in service of the other or subservient in any way. Hierarchies are of the intellectual mind, not the unified mind. The connection between mind/body/spirit is symbolised by the circle, triangle and square. Emptiness and fullness coexist in mutuality, not as juxtaposition. People are free to believe what they want in the way I do Aikido, but they need to be careful about what they practice - the two are not necessarily the same.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 02:08 PM   #213
gregstec
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Spiritual produces strong mind and strong body. So many I have met over the years doing spiritual practices and martial arts who just won't let go of physical thinking and thus see themselves in the future as some kind of superman. S on the chest et. al.

Stuck in physical, stuck in identity, stuck in bravado. Stuck.

I saw a nice quote recently, "I am not a human enjoying a spiritual experience, I am a spirit enjoying the human experience"

Peace.G.
Why do you say that all we do is physical? what we do is very mental and a coordinated mind and body is essential to the success of developing internal power/strength. However, we just don't see the mental as a spiritual thing - mind and body naturally is one; however, the external arts focused on the body and lost touch with the mental - internal arts bring them back together as one - but IMO, that is not a spiritual thing, just a natural thing.

Greg
 
Old 06-26-2012, 02:09 PM   #214
graham christian
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Tom Buchanan wrote: View Post
Probably poor form to quote the wiki but..

The real birth of Aikido came as the result of three instances of spiritual awakening that Ueshiba experienced. The first happened in 1925, after Ueshiba had defeated a naval officer's bokken (wooden katana) attacks unarmed and without hurting the officer. Ueshiba then walked to his garden and had a spiritual awakening.

Onisaburo Deguchi
... I felt the universe suddenly quake, and that a golden spirit sprang up from the ground, veiled my body, and changed my body into a golden one. At the same time my body became light. I was able to understand the whispering of the birds, and was clearly aware of the mind of God, the creator of the universe.
At that moment I was enlightened: the source of budo is God's love - the spirit of loving protection for all beings ...
Budo is not the felling of an opponent by force; nor is it a tool to lead the world to destruction with arms. True Budo is to accept the spirit of the universe, keep the peace of the world, correctly produce, protect and cultivate all beings in nature.[12]

His second experience occurred in 1940 when,
"Around 2am as I was performing misogi, I suddenly forgot all the martial techniques I had ever learned. The techniques of my teachers appeared completely new. Now they were vehicles for the cultivation of life, knowledge, and virtue, not devices to throw people with."[citation needed]

His third experience was in 1942 during the worst fighting of WWII, Ueshiba had a vision of the "Great Spirit of Peace".[2]
"The Way of the Warrior has been misunderstood. It is not a means to kill and destroy others. Those who seek to compete and better one another are making a terrible mistake. To smash, injure, or destroy is the worst thing a human being can do. The real Way of a Warrior is to prevent such slaughter - it is the Art of Peace, the power of love.


..I'm still wondering how one can really have any kind of spiritual practice without some sort of enlightenment or awakening. Shouldn't the focus be on finding these experiences instead of copying the movements of those who got hit by the spiritual anvil? If not, aren't we just putting on our Air Jordan's and trying to pretend we're in the NBA?

As some frequently point out, the non-cooperative opponent is a necessity. Obviously, if someone's "stuff" only works against cooperative opponents or those of a lesser physical stature, the value of that "stuff" is dubious. Similarly, if a spiritual practice is merely a copy of someone else's tradition or collection of aphorisms, can it really be spiritual?

In the same way that martial effectiveness is validated by success against a non-cooperative opponent, isn't spiritual veracity proven through a genuine transformational experience?
That's pretty straightforward and obvious Tom I would say.

I would say though that when you look and find certain ways of training then look for the why rather than for the negative. As I have said before it's easy to be negative and that is the way of the lazy mind.

Take co-operative training or even coercive. Don't believe the dogma of not martial or effective for that is trolled out non-stop by those who don't know the why of each of the above. You see there are reasons for things and there are really good reasons as to why they come about in the first place. It's understanding those reasons and training according to strict rules of those which bring about progress. To dismiss one type of training, which actually should be looked at as one type of drill, thus would be cutting out from your yourself part of what you are trying to achieve.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 02:20 PM   #215
graham christian
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Alister Gillies wrote: View Post
Mind, body and spirit represent a trinity. One is not in service of the other or subservient in any way. Hierarchies are of the intellectual mind, not the unified mind. The connection between mind/body/spirit is symbolised by the circle, triangle and square. Emptiness and fullness coexist in mutuality, not as juxtaposition. People are free to believe what they want in the way I do Aikido, but they need to be careful about what they practice - the two are not necessarily the same.
Such is your belief and such is the way it is looked at by the more 'physical orientated' experts.

What one believes and the practice ultimately should be the same. People are not allowed to believe one thing and practice another in my dojo. They may start off that way obviously but the goal is applying the same in life as on the mat.

Unified mind? Mind is mind, body is body. Spirit is spirit. You can have all three working in harmony.

Believing they are equal in import or cause is a fallacy and the main reason for misunderstanding I would say.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 02:32 PM   #216
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
I see Ki as Tohei did - it is universal and it is in all things and it is not a magical thing; it is simply another form of energy existing at a level not yet discernible in the electromagnetic spectrum - however, that does not mean we can not see the results of its existence in the things it interacts with on a physical level. If anyone wants to explain away a physical science they cannot understand by applying a spiritual or mystic tag to it, then feel free to do so - just don't expect others that may have more experience in that area to agree with you.

Greg
I don't need anyone to agree with me. Maybe those that have less experience will see differently as they continue to train. The art reveals it's secrets through dedicated training. There are no shortcuts.

 
Old 06-26-2012, 02:40 PM   #217
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

I find my Aikido training useful in life. When things gets hard I can relate the principles I have learned in Aikido to my life. I don't try to control circumstances. I don't try to force solutions. I accept what is and move on. I let my life unfold. I am not interested in having power over others, in winning or being the strongest in the land.

 
Old 06-26-2012, 02:44 PM   #218
Alister Gillies
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Your comment is not very cogent, simply a reiteration of a dogmatic position with an added assumption about my orientation - you are not in a position to know my background. A fair reflection of the the more 'opinionated' variety of expert. There is no such thing as self-conscious virtue, except in your obviously 'spiritual' case. You might reflect that genuinely spiritual individuals may feel some embarrassment at your immature assertions, and they are keeping quiet. I intend to follow their example. Best of luck.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 02:56 PM   #219
Marc Abrams
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Alister Gillies wrote: View Post
Your comment is not very cogent, simply a reiteration of a dogmatic position with an added assumption about my orientation - you are not in a position to know my background. A fair reflection of the the more 'opinionated' variety of expert. There is no such thing as self-conscious virtue, except in your obviously 'spiritual' case. You might reflect that genuinely spiritual individuals may feel some embarrassment at your immature assertions, and they are keeping quiet. I intend to follow their example. Best of luck.
Alister:

As I posted earlier, Graham is unwilling or unable to be "unbalanced" from his positions, beliefs and ideas. Unfortunately, his "balanced" position is little more than the dynamic equilibrium created with one side composed of an genuine ignorance of facts and empirically-validated information, while the other side is composed of a deluded arrogance as to the correctness of his position. The resulting "balance" is quite the site to behold.....

Regards,

marc abrams
 
Old 06-26-2012, 03:05 PM   #220
Alister Gillies
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Thanks Marc - I skipped some of it and missed that post.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 03:08 PM   #221
RonRagusa
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
I see Ki as Tohei did - it is universal and it is in all things and it is not a magical thing; it is simply another form of energy existing at a level not yet discernible in the electromagnetic spectrum - however, that does not mean we can not see the results of its existence in the things it interacts with on a physical level. If anyone wants to explain away a physical science they cannot understand by applying a spiritual or mystic tag to it, then feel free to do so - just don't expect others that may have more experience in that area to agree with you.

Greg
That's interesting Greg. You are accepting the existence of Ki as a matter of faith which is itself rather spiritual. I say this because the only evidence you have for the existence of Ki is its effect on "the things it interacts with on a physical level". You cannot use the effect a thing has on other things to prove the existence of the thing itself. That's like saying the expansion of the universe is accelerating which I can only explain by postulating the existence of dark energy; therefore dark energy must exist because the expansion of the universe is accelerating.

So while you can postulate the existence of a form of energy called Ki and use it to explain the occurrence of certain physical phenomena; Ki remains a theoretical construct, like the Higg's boson, until it is actually observed, measured and otherwise scientifically characterized.

Ron

 
Old 06-26-2012, 03:15 PM   #222
gregstec
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
I don't need anyone to agree with me. Maybe those that have less experience will see differently as they continue to train. The art reveals it's secrets through dedicated training. There are no shortcuts.
I was not speaking to you in that post, but if you want to align yourself with Graham on those points, fine by me - I do not have any mission in life to convert anyone to anything, I am just sharing my views for those that may have an interest

Greg
 
Old 06-26-2012, 03:19 PM   #223
ChrisMoses
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Ki is praying to bananas in seiza!
[snip]
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Old 06-26-2012, 03:21 PM   #224
graham christian
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
Why do you say that all we do is physical? what we do is very mental and a coordinated mind and body is essential to the success of developing internal power/strength. However, we just don't see the mental as a spiritual thing - mind and body naturally is one; however, the external arts focused on the body and lost touch with the mental - internal arts bring them back together as one - but IMO, that is not a spiritual thing, just a natural thing.

Greg
There are three things Greg, spiritual, mental, physical.

Many are very focussed on physical only I think you'll agree. Along comes a coach (in sport) or I/P and shows there is another dimention and that comes under mental. So there you are.

Now you learn mental things and techniques and practices to enhance the physical and work with the physical. Mind and body.

Now, those who were so only into physical were always aware that mentality was there but of no import was their consideration or else it was something that was not of their volition or control.

Just something that connects you to the physical. Sound familiar?

Now you do it you call it natural. Mind and body working as one is obviously more powerful than not, that's a no brainer. Internal arts generally focus on these two and thus develope theories based on them. But like the physical guy I mentioned above they can't deny there is another factor, just like he couldn't deny he had a mentality, and like him they put this third factor down as just a this or just a that.

Now, to your original question, why do I say that all you do is physical?

Well firstly that physical guy mentioned above would be looking at things so. Then we come to the way 'you' perceive things. Those into the mental side of things tend to approach things differently to the other wouldn't you say? Their whole approach becomes different. The down side is that where I may say one person is very physical and some may say such charachters in life are ignorant, etc whilst the ones into mind are more academic, into data, data, data, intellectual. Thus I could say many are robots, like living machines or walking libraries/ Funny thing is a lot of these charachters are very unstable when it comes to martial arts. Theyre too busy thinking. I'm sure you've met many such.

Person 'A' I would say is "being" a body. Person "B" I would say is "BEING" a mind.

Now, a person unifying the two as you talk about is to me doing much better and feeling much better in themselves than the other two.

It is well known that the 'power' of the mind is greater than the body. So I call this looking at mind and body as equal in regards to affecting or effecting each other as nonsense. Psycho somatic illness should tell you something here. Mind affecting the body.

My first question to you would be if you are coordinating mind and body then what are you?

But back to your question. Spiritually I can get people to look at things, to look at mental things and physical things. I can get people to look and that is not with physical eyes. Now when it comes to creating or looking then many cannot but translate such as physical things. So I could give you a mental exercise right now which shows how you are seeing things physically even via the mind. Thus I say still stuck in physical. If it doesn't relate to what you have seen physically or according to the physical mechanical laws you are used to then you will have a hard time creating or doing or even mentally having something happen.

Anything not physical is what? What is the difference between mental and spiritual? The not knowing is the reason that such spiritual sayings and indeed principles are translated mentally and thus misunderstood. From looking at things physical and mental then any spiritual you can only call mental and thus never really understand the difference.

In fact you can have budo mind conditions, well documented, yet they actually equal, like zen, 'no mind' type conditions. No thinking, no plotting, no remembering, no history, no mind. They are spiritual and body conditions. Universal.

So mind and body is one thing but spiritual people who have realized the "reality" of mind then enter a new phase. A 'ueshiba' phase and no longer that 'old' mind and body internal thing.

That is now seen as very physical.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 03:25 PM   #225
gregstec
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Ron Ragusa wrote: View Post
That's interesting Greg. You are accepting the existence of Ki as a matter of faith which is itself rather spiritual. I say this because the only evidence you have for the existence of Ki is its effect on "the things it interacts with on a physical level". You cannot use the effect a thing has on other things to prove the existence of the thing itself. That's like saying the expansion of the universe is accelerating which I can only explain by postulating the existence of dark energy; therefore dark energy must exist because the expansion of the universe is accelerating.
I believe that is exactly how scientists have explained the existence of black holes - since nothing can escape the gravitational pull of a black hole, no actual physical evidence can be obtained of their existence, but by looking at physical effects of things around them, you get secondary evidence. Also, can you see wind? no, but you feel its effects on you and see its effects on other things.

Quote:
Ron Ragusa wrote: View Post
So while you can postulate the existence of a form of energy called Ki and use it to explain the occurrence of certain physical phenomena; Ki remains a theoretical construct, like the Higg's boson, until it is actually observed, measured and otherwise scientifically characterized.

Ron
Actually , I can feel ki and and I can control it in my body; therefore, to me, I have evidence of ki.

Greg
 

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