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Old 06-13-2012, 11:51 AM   #26
Chris Parkerson
Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
Location: ohio
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Chris
If we are to find common ground we need to understand each other starting with what is the easiest to get to....".....how do you train your body to work as part of the whole?.....what kind of practices do you do to effect the body's functioning to do these things? How do you condition your body? Spirit and mind can be strong...weak body means nothing good happens. And you know that John has drills to help with this, that is what Dan is talking about at this stage is the body work, and that others are out there offering their approaches.

Graham likely has drills, solo training and partner training....other than just waza... to effect the conditioning... that is what I am asking.

Gary
Gary,
I agree that spiritual consciousness can be obtained through body yogas. Hatha yoga is a prime
example outside of the Aiki world. But as I experienced Bakhti yoga (Love and devotional service)
while living in an ISKON ashram in the late 1960's, i noticed that one can go directly to the
spiritual source - yes, it can often leave the body in an acstatic limbo to be sure. The Bakhti folks
critique the Hatha folks as being too slow in their a process.
I began to live with this idea. My experience of the spiritual are encompassed within three forms
that are bound together. Together, they ensure balance. I must have:

1. Some form of mindful experience. For me it is about clarity, acstatic/mystical seeing, and awareness of heaven and earth.
2. Some form of ethics. For me it is the faith of Jesus (not faith in Jesus) and the 14 precepts of engaged Buddhism
http://viewonbuddhism.org/resources/14_precepts.html
3. Some form of practice. For me, it is sacred activism
http://www.andrewharvey.net/sacred_activism.php ,
my martial and internal gung and meditational training.

I am not convinced that body training will necessarily lead to mindful compassion or ethical living. Mindfulness alone can lead some into a denial of the body and sometimes a complete rejection of the world. Ethics alone can make one self righteous judges over others.

Thus the three provide balance - Heaven and earth meeting within the center (lymbic system) of the body. (There is, however, a fusion of tantien, heart and mind that is very important for manifesting things)

There are many ways to bow and kiss the ground (Rumi). As for me, I follow this 3 fold path. Aikido is a part of that path and helps to inform all three elements.

Namaste,

Chris

Last edited by Chris Parkerson : 06-13-2012 at 11:56 AM.
 
Old 06-13-2012, 12:07 PM   #27
Gary David
 
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
I am not convinced that body training will necessarily lead to mindful compassion or ethical living. Mindfulness alone can lead some into a denial of the body and sometimes a complete rejection of the world. Ethics alone can make one self righteous judges over others.

Thus the three provide balance - Heaven and earth meeting within the center (lymbic system) of the body. (There is, however, a fusion of tantien, heart and mind that is very important for manifesting things)

There are many ways to bow and kiss the ground (Rumi). As for me, I follow this 3 fold path. Aikido is a part of that path and helps to inform all three elements.

Namaste,

Chris
Chris
I am talking about Aikido and only the body aspect of it.......not talking about kissing the earth or someone's @%&. What is Graham doing to train his body? I understand the connections, in interdependence, the intertwining...I am talking about body work.......

Does John talk anything but body work & mechanics? ...not what else he may hold?

just me

Gary
 
Old 06-13-2012, 01:01 PM   #28
graham christian
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Graham
Thanks for sharing. The first partial quote from the original entry and the second partial from a later entry seems to me to open space to ask a question about the how of the body. Putting aside the order of things, i.e. Spirit, Mind, Body......how do you work the body to allow it of be an effect part of the whole when doing nikkyo? How do you train (drills, etc.) to have the body work in doing nikkyo using your Koshi approach? Is it different training for the Kokyu approach? For me doing nikkyo is a body closing activity on my part and I am trying to effect the other persons feet. I want them light on their feet . With uke my intent goes through the their elbow, through the lower back and through the leg to the ground, breaking the connection, My hold on the uke's wrist and such is like a hug that can't be broken, their is a weight drop, a weight shift, I keep my center/dantien pressurized and I close...a feeling to my light drawing in rather than expanding.

For all of these elements there are drills, some of them solo drills. A whole bunch of folks provide these kinds of practices to help with the whole. what kinds of practices or drills do you use for your body practice?

Thanks

Gary
Good question Gary which I need to clarify first.

As you know my emphasis is spiritual drills. There are also mental drills. There are also physical drills.

On the mental side I usually start off even with beginners asking them questions and getting them looking and seeing there is another way. For example I can grab them, grab their wrist hard, squeeze hard, hold with two hands, all kinds of holds and ask them what they are trying to do as a response and why? Inevitably they say they are trying to escape and the why is varied but basically to escape being trapped. This is considered normal yet in my Aikido is not. The mind says escape, fight, etc. So the first drills are to show not to use that mind and how to use another way which doesn't equal such reaction and leads to new thinking.

Anyway back to body. The first drills are Aiki taiso. Body movement and body movement whilst keeping center and extending Ki. The purpose is to allow the body or cell memories to get used to the body motions involved in Aikido. So from taisabaki, tenkan, ikkyo, funokogiundo, ukemis backwards, forwards, (sidewards) etc etc.

Then geometry of movements in Aikido.

At first the concentration is very much on correct body movement for the beginner but the emphasis given is still more on the spiritual principles and the geometry. In other words why are you doing Ikkyo exercise? What does it do? Where does it come from? What principle should you be using when doing it? So although these are body movements the whys and wherefors have to be adhered to as more important.

Whilst doing these things using Ki and with tests then many body adjustments and awarenesses of happenings in the body are come across. However, the aim is to do eventually based solely on principle application and what feels like nothing happening within the body, as if it is an empty vessel. The only changes are in energy feelings.

I cannot escape mentioning spirit, mind, body in that order here because within my philosophy is firstly as I said before spirit brings harmony to mind and body. So now secondly and importantly I say eventually you have to trust the body as it knows what to do so you don't interfere and try to make it do. Like with a weapon be it a sword or whatever, if you learn the correct principles to adhere to and are thus in tune with then your job becomes letting it do what it 'wants' to do, like it knows what to do.

Therefor by using Ki and space and kokyu etc. spiritually the body gets used to and does what it needs to do. You merely become aware of the subtle changes and thus aware of when you are applying the principle concerned or if you only think you are because the body energy feeling or energy location is out.

That said I will go to the nikkyo question etc. in separate post.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-13-2012, 01:15 PM   #29
Chris Parkerson
Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Chris
I am talking about Aikido and only the body aspect of it.......not talking about kissing the earth or someone's @%&. What is Graham doing to train his body? I understand the connections, in interdependence, the intertwining...I am talking about body work.......

Does John talk anything but body work & mechanics? ...not what else he may hold?

just me

Gary
Well Gary,

That rather redefines the topic of this thread. The topic was "my spiritual Aikido".
As such, I believe Graham is onto something. He is on his spiritual path. In this context, I am disagreeing that body yogas are the easiest place to start as you suggested. If it was, the experience would be ubiquitous.

I am sorry you misunderstood my context.

Regards,

Chris

Last edited by Chris Parkerson : 06-13-2012 at 01:20 PM.
 
Old 06-13-2012, 02:29 PM   #30
graham christian
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Graham
Thanks for sharing. The first partial quote from the original entry and the second partial from a later entry seems to me to open space to ask a question about the how of the body. Putting aside the order of things, i.e. Spirit, Mind, Body......how do you work the body to allow it of be an effect part of the whole when doing nikkyo? How do you train (drills, etc.) to have the body work in doing nikkyo using your Koshi approach? Is it different training for the Kokyu approach? For me doing nikkyo is a body closing activity on my part and I am trying to effect the other persons feet. I want them light on their feet . With uke my intent goes through the their elbow, through the lower back and through the leg to the ground, breaking the connection, My hold on the uke's wrist and such is like a hug that can't be broken, their is a weight drop, a weight shift, I keep my center/dantien pressurized and I close...a feeling to my light drawing in rather than expanding.

For all of these elements there are drills, some of them solo drills. A whole bunch of folks provide these kinds of practices to help with the whole. what kinds of practices or drills do you use for your body practice?

Thanks

Gary
Nikkyo: Firstly I show various ways of doing the same Nikkyo. So it's best I separate them.

Nikkyo from center: This nikkyo is done by extending Ki out of the finger (usually index finger for beginners) and around the wrist and back to own center. Principle of circle or even a 'u' shape. The emphasis is reaching out from center, around and back to own center. So it's not so much a body drill except for the how of the technique, the technical corrections of elbows and shoulders and position etc. It's exercising center.

Nikkyo from center line: This is nikkyo with tegatana. Extending through the center line of the other, cutting through their center line, done. It's a sword cut. It involves lifting the sword and cutting the sword. Once again it exercises center and center line. Whatever happens body wise 'internally' is the result of these two things.

Nikkyo form kokyu is done with a flat hand, fingers spread, wrist soft, extended Ki, like a fan. This is a space exercise so you are exercizing your space. Center line and center are there too of course but emphasis space. With each the principles are different.

For instance with the first the principle of invite, with the second the principle of neutral, with the third the principle welcome.

So the body being the effect part of anything is based on all drills where you are to learn to be happy effect. You learn in all drills to receive comfortably. So it's not really a matter of which part of the body it's more a matter of which principle you use which in turn allows the body to receive comfortably.

Center for example accepts and gives and that is for me a basic Aikido meditation and something which should be more and more there all the time like breathing, energy is continuously going in and extending out. Any force given thus goes into center so the body remains energetic and relaxed. Any tension goes into center, etc. Thus energy in the body, especially the lower half is doing what it should naturally. Develop center line and the upper part of the body internally goes into alignment energy wise.

For me Nikkyo wise on the wrist for example I am not interested in the other persons feet or whatever physically. What I would call the standard would be the sword, or tegatana nikkyo. Therefor I am only interested in aligning my center line with theirs, aware of their energy and mind movement showing them the 'blade'. Any thought of moving or energy change I cut through their center line, done. What they do internally, externally, of no importance. I am concentrated and aware only of my center line and center and space, as well as theirs.

The body drills which fit such would actually be those like ikkyo exercise done from those principles. Four direction ikkyo, eight direction ikkyo, Picking up tegatana for nikkyo should feel no different than doing ikkyo in essence.

Koshi I do drills where they must feel the gravity and more importantly an empty space below them, a space that has infinite capacity, can take everything into it. Sometimes as if it's a big bowl below ground that if you connect to takes everything into it. This relates to the base of the lower spine relaxing, opening. So nikkyo done from such I am actually connecting our koshi's.

I do not 'break' connection, I connect. I do not say connect to their center and disrupt it. I say connect to their center and then anything you are truly doing from center will cause motion for you are together. Thus I have drills of connecting with center, connecting your space with their space, connecting your koshi with their koshi, connecting you with them. Prime directive is 'to be with'.

To be with and you can feel they may be doing all kinds of strange things with their minds and energy and internal movements but all subservient to being with and being at one. Then and only then what you do they follow.

The exercises of closing and opening, condensing, expanding I don't do as such for I say both should be happening at the same time, yin and yang. Thus we never 'pull Ki in' or tense 'constrict Ki' We allow. We allow expansion and allow condensing, Ki out or ki flowing from out to in. The principle is that as you flow. extend out then Ki automatically according to the laws of yin and yang flows in. So there is no need to tense or constrict. Allow the principles to do their jobs is the key.

All Aikitaiso and indeed all techniques can be done from center. They can be done from koshi. They can be done from kokyu. Thus the body exercises done from said facets produces different internal effects and different external effects on the other person. So we don't concentrate on the internal body parts or energy paths but rather the principles and the resultant effects internally or externally. So for me it's universal.

Any more thoughts on the matter I shall put into a different post.

Peace.G.

Last edited by graham christian : 06-13-2012 at 02:35 PM.
 
Old 06-13-2012, 04:45 PM   #31
SteveTrinkle
Dojo: Aikido Kenkyukai International
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

right brain stroke left side of body is f***ed up!

 
Old 06-13-2012, 04:56 PM   #32
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Here's an example of principle. As written above center does certain things, it has certain qualities.

The main principle I have said goes with center is acceptance.

This means when accepting you are centered, when not you are not centered, you have 'lost' your center.

Thus you can apply this principle to all things in all walks of life.

When you are accepting you are centered thus when something happens in life that makes you other than accepting, be it angry or whatever, then you are at that point not centered. Thus you can apply Aikido to life.

When you are not accepting then your mind and spirit are not unified and the result of your body is some form of tension and disharmony. When you are accepting then your mind is bright and clear, spirit is joyful and body is relaxed and energetic. Spirit, mind , body unified. Centered.

Peace. G.

Last edited by graham christian : 06-13-2012 at 05:02 PM.
 
Old 06-13-2012, 05:47 PM   #33
SteveTrinkle
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

perhaps I'm not writing down my thoughts clearly

 
Old 06-13-2012, 05:51 PM   #34
SteveTrinkle
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Here's an example of principle. As written above center does certain things, it has certain qualities.

The main principle I have said goes with center is acceptance.

This means when accepting you are centered, when not you are not centered, you have 'lost' your center.

Thus you can apply this principle to all things in all walks of life.

When you are accepting you are centered thus when something happens in life that makes you other than accepting, be it angry or whatever, then you are at that point not centered. Thus you can apply Aikido to life.

When you are not accepting then your mind and spirit are not unified and the result of your body is some form of tension and disharmony. When you are accepting then your mind is bright and clear, spirit is joyful and body is relaxed and energetic. Spirit, mind , body unified. Centered.

Peace. G.
none of the aboves has much to do with my present experience I'm living it nowin the moment

 
Old 06-13-2012, 06:44 PM   #35
graham christian
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Stephen Trinkle wrote: View Post
none of the aboves has much to do with my present experience I'm living it nowin the moment
Steve. I think it was Chris who asked you about your stroke,not me.

My last post was general, to anyone, not with relation to your previous post.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-13-2012, 06:50 PM   #36
Chris Parkerson
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Stephen,

I, for one, would love to hear more about your experience of the stroke, how it has changed you, and what you have discovered. I would be honored to hear these things privately or publically.

Regards,

Chris
 
Old 06-13-2012, 06:56 PM   #37
graham christian
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Chris
If we are to find common ground we need to understand each other starting with what is the easiest to get to....".....how do you train your body to work as part of the whole?.....what kind of practices do you do to effect the body's functioning to do these things? How do you condition your body? Spirit and mind can be strong...weak body means nothing good happens. And you know that John has drills to help with this, that is what Dan is talking about at this stage is the body work, and that others are out there offering their approaches.

Graham likely has drills, solo training and partner training....other than just waza... to effect the conditioning... that is what I am asking.

Gary
Gary, you would have to explain to me what you mean by body conditioning. Health is one form. Fitness is another. Suppleness is another. What conditioning are you referring to?

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-13-2012, 08:54 PM   #38
PhillyKiAikido
 
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Nicely put. Thanks!

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Good question Gary which I need to clarify first.

As you know my emphasis is spiritual drills. There are also mental drills. There are also physical drills.

On the mental side I usually start off even with beginners asking them questions and getting them looking and seeing there is another way. For example I can grab them, grab their wrist hard, squeeze hard, hold with two hands, all kinds of holds and ask them what they are trying to do as a response and why? Inevitably they say they are trying to escape and the why is varied but basically to escape being trapped. This is considered normal yet in my Aikido is not. The mind says escape, fight, etc. So the first drills are to show not to use that mind and how to use another way which doesn't equal such reaction and leads to new thinking.

Anyway back to body. The first drills are Aiki taiso. Body movement and body movement whilst keeping center and extending Ki. The purpose is to allow the body or cell memories to get used to the body motions involved in Aikido. So from taisabaki, tenkan, ikkyo, funokogiundo, ukemis backwards, forwards, (sidewards) etc etc.

Then geometry of movements in Aikido.

At first the concentration is very much on correct body movement for the beginner but the emphasis given is still more on the spiritual principles and the geometry. In other words why are you doing Ikkyo exercise? What does it do? Where does it come from? What principle should you be using when doing it? So although these are body movements the whys and wherefors have to be adhered to as more important.

Whilst doing these things using Ki and with tests then many body adjustments and awarenesses of happenings in the body are come across. However, the aim is to do eventually based solely on principle application and what feels like nothing happening within the body, as if it is an empty vessel. The only changes are in energy feelings.

I cannot escape mentioning spirit, mind, body in that order here because within my philosophy is firstly as I said before spirit brings harmony to mind and body. So now secondly and importantly I say eventually you have to trust the body as it knows what to do so you don't interfere and try to make it do. Like with a weapon be it a sword or whatever, if you learn the correct principles to adhere to and are thus in tune with then your job becomes letting it do what it 'wants' to do, like it knows what to do.

Therefor by using Ki and space and kokyu etc. spiritually the body gets used to and does what it needs to do. You merely become aware of the subtle changes and thus aware of when you are applying the principle concerned or if you only think you are because the body energy feeling or energy location is out.

That said I will go to the nikkyo question etc. in separate post.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-13-2012, 08:55 PM   #39
Gary David
 
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Gary, you would have to explain to me what you mean by body conditioning. Health is one form. Fitness is another. Suppleness is another. What conditioning are you referring to?

Peace.G.
Graham
If one was wanting to run a 2:10 marathon...... the body needs to be conditioned to carry the spirit and the mind on the run.....otherwise it won't happen..... To do do any Aikido the body has to be able to carry the spirit and mind.....

Gary
 
Old 06-14-2012, 06:29 AM   #40
SteveTrinkle
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

i'd bbe happy to speak privatelywith you call me in the usa215 9 06 9515216 906 95-15

 
Old 06-14-2012, 06:31 AM   #41
Chris Parkerson
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Stephen Trinkle wrote: View Post
i'd bbe happy to speak privatelywith you call me in the usa215 9 06 9515216 906 95-15
I certainly will

With gratitude

Chris
 
Old 06-14-2012, 12:31 PM   #42
Tom Verhoeven
Dojo: Aikido Auvergne Kumano dojo
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
Gary,
I agree that spiritual consciousness can be obtained through body yogas. Hatha yoga is a prime
example outside of the Aiki world. But as I experienced Bakhti yoga (Love and devotional service)
while living in an ISKON ashram in the late 1960's, i noticed that one can go directly to the
spiritual source - yes, it can often leave the body in an acstatic limbo to be sure. The Bakhti folks
critique the Hatha folks as being too slow in their a process.
I began to live with this idea. My experience of the spiritual are encompassed within three forms
that are bound together. Together, they ensure balance. I must have:

1. Some form of mindful experience. For me it is about clarity, acstatic/mystical seeing, and awareness of heaven and earth.
2. Some form of ethics. For me it is the faith of Jesus (not faith in Jesus) and the 14 precepts of engaged Buddhism
http://viewonbuddhism.org/resources/14_precepts.html
3. Some form of practice. For me, it is sacred activism
http://www.andrewharvey.net/sacred_activism.php ,
my martial and internal gung and meditational training.

I am not convinced that body training will necessarily lead to mindful compassion or ethical living. Mindfulness alone can lead some into a denial of the body and sometimes a complete rejection of the world. Ethics alone can make one self righteous judges over others.

Thus the three provide balance - Heaven and earth meeting within the center (lymbic system) of the body. (There is, however, a fusion of tantien, heart and mind that is very important for manifesting things)

There are many ways to bow and kiss the ground (Rumi). As for me, I follow this 3 fold path. Aikido is a part of that path and helps to inform all three elements.

Namaste,

Chris
Chris,
Thank you for this wonderful description of your practice. Bringing all those three together and including the service as practiced in Bhakti yoga would to me be a fine description of Aikido experienced and enjoyed to the fullest.

I wonder how many Aikido dojo still practice service to those who need help or to the community. But that question might be the start of a new thread.

(and I really need to find that book of Rumi! Loved that quote!)

Gassho,

Tom
 
Old 06-14-2012, 12:53 PM   #43
Chris Parkerson
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

The Essential Rumi by Coleman Barks.
Search YouTube for Coleman Barks. His channeling of Rumi knocks my socks off. A good friend of mine studied under Coleman in Athens, Ga. Instead of sufi Dirvish twirling, Coleman and Loring would drink and dance to Bluegrass music, Pylon and the B-52's.

As an aside, So many folks don't get it about these deeply spiritual beings. When Jesus, for instance, invited the tax collectors and "sinners" to his house for dinner, (Luke 15:2), that wasn't a formal dinner party. It was a festive party atmosphere where people reclined and drank wine (Luke 7:34; Matthew 11:9).

Smiling Deeply,

Chris
 
Old 06-14-2012, 02:08 PM   #44
Chris Parkerson
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Tom,
I found the poem that has that quote:

Today, like every other day, we wake up empty
and frightened. Don't open the door to the study
and begin reading. Take down a musical instrument.

Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground.

Rumi (Translated by Coleman Barks)
 
Old 06-14-2012, 02:39 PM   #45
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Graham
If one was wanting to run a 2:10 marathon...... the body needs to be conditioned to carry the spirit and the mind on the run.....otherwise it won't happen..... To do do any Aikido the body has to be able to carry the spirit and mind.....

Gary
I don't agree. The body needs to be conditioned to cope, that's all. It doesn't carry anything unless you have a pack on your back.

In fact it's quite the reverse. You and the mind direct the body. Without you and the mind conditioned you cannot do Aikido.

It's like saying a car improves you. The car does nothing without you driving it. The car is maintained. The rest is nothing to do with the car. Purely down to you knowing how to drive.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-14-2012, 03:36 PM   #46
Gary David
 
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
I don't agree. The body needs to be conditioned to cope, that's all. It doesn't carry anything unless you have a pack on your back.

In fact it's quite the reverse. You and the mind direct the body. Without you and the mind conditioned you cannot do Aikido.

It's like saying a car improves you. The car does nothing without you driving it. The car is maintained. The rest is nothing to do with the car. Purely down to you knowing how to drive.

Peace.G.
Graham
If the spark plugs are fouled, tires are flat, one or two missing, out of gas, missing the starter motor...or like that....no matter how conditioned the driver is they go no where.....and even a condition mind can carry the car...... just like cars are not maintained so bodies are not. sitting zazen in seiza for twenty years may settle your mind, but mostly it gives us tight a#$ white guys bad knees, it does nothing to help lineup the transmission of whatever you are transmitting out of the body to effect whatever it is you are trying to effect......... All three need complementary work to be efficient. What I have seen most of my life is heavy work on spirit and mind....thinking that practice of waza 3 times a week as a single approach to body work is enough..... maybe with a cooperative approach to practice that is enough, but to be effective past a preliminary level it is not.. ..... find a middle ground here or you lose me completely....

Gary
 
Old 06-14-2012, 06:03 PM   #47
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
The Essential Rumi by Coleman Barks.
Search YouTube for Coleman Barks. His channeling of Rumi knocks my socks off. A good friend of mine studied under Coleman in Athens, Ga. Instead of sufi Dirvish twirling, Coleman and Loring would drink and dance to Bluegrass music, Pylon and the B-52's.

As an aside, So many folks don't get it about these deeply spiritual beings. When Jesus, for instance, invited the tax collectors and "sinners" to his house for dinner, (Luke 15:2), that wasn't a formal dinner party. It was a festive party atmosphere where people reclined and drank wine (Luke 7:34; Matthew 11:9).

Smiling Deeply,

Chris
Chris,
Maybe Jesus had a hidden agenda when he invited the tax collectors for a booze up?Assuming the said inspectors got into the swing of things, being sozzled maybe they then tried a bit of hows your father with the local crumpet.Jesus might well have asked for tax free status for himself and his buddies[Prophet charitable status?]and tax refunds all round for the population.Since the tax inspectors were probably Roman citizens , Jesus had a extra chuckle here.My theory has not been verified by the Church/Vatican but only time will tell.I am researching this in ancient Essene documents/Dead Sea scrolls the unexpurgated version.Cheers Joe.
 
Old 06-14-2012, 06:07 PM   #48
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
I don't agree. The body needs to be conditioned to cope, that's all. It doesn't carry anything unless you have a pack on your back.

In fact it's quite the reverse. You and the mind direct the body. Without you and the mind conditioned you cannot do Aikido.

It's like saying a car improves you. The car does nothing without you driving it. The car is maintained. The rest is nothing to do with the car. Purely down to you knowing how to drive.

Peace.G.
Dear Graham,
I do aikido despite my body being out of commission and my mind like a bag of spanners.Cheers, joe
 
Old 06-14-2012, 06:13 PM   #49
Tom Verhoeven
Dojo: Aikido Auvergne Kumano dojo
Location: Auvergne
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 295
France
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
The Essential Rumi by Coleman Barks.
Search YouTube for Coleman Barks. His channeling of Rumi knocks my socks off. A good friend of mine studied under Coleman in Athens, Ga. Instead of sufi Dirvish twirling, Coleman and Loring would drink and dance to Bluegrass music, Pylon and the B-52's.

As an aside, So many folks don't get it about these deeply spiritual beings. When Jesus, for instance, invited the tax collectors and "sinners" to his house for dinner, (Luke 15:2), that wasn't a formal dinner party. It was a festive party atmosphere where people reclined and drank wine (Luke 7:34; Matthew 11:9).

Smiling Deeply,

Chris
Actually, I don't think I ever read it like that. Luke 14:12 I would have read as a form of Bhakti yoga. Or as a christian virtue to "do good" (in which case it still could be seen as a form of repayment in the form of gratitude).
But I don't think I realized that he invited the tax collectors and sinners in his house and reading it as a festive party gives it a different meaning.
I am reminded of the organisation that my Aikido sensei is involved in, organizing shared meals with orphaned children to give them joy and if I remember correctly, opposing groups in third world countries. The meals are joyous events for everyone involved, and the idea is that people who share a festive meal together no longer long to fight each other.
He got this from O Sensei who pointed out that Aikido should bring people together and bring joy and happiness to everyone.

Thank you for your wisdom and for making me pick up my bible again.
Tom
 
Old 06-14-2012, 07:14 PM   #50
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
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England
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Re: My Spiritual Aikido.

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Graham
If the spark plugs are fouled, tires are flat, one or two missing, out of gas, missing the starter motor...or like that....no matter how conditioned the driver is they go no where.....and even a condition mind can carry the car...... just like cars are not maintained so bodies are not. sitting zazen in seiza for twenty years may settle your mind, but mostly it gives us tight a#$ white guys bad knees, it does nothing to help lineup the transmission of whatever you are transmitting out of the body to effect whatever it is you are trying to effect......... All three need complementary work to be efficient. What I have seen most of my life is heavy work on spirit and mind....thinking that practice of waza 3 times a week as a single approach to body work is enough..... maybe with a cooperative approach to practice that is enough, but to be effective past a preliminary level it is not.. ..... find a middle ground here or you lose me completely....

Gary
Gary, I did say above that bodies are maintained. For specific activities ie: marathon etc. you would have to condition it differently. Why? So it can cope.

Here's the thing: 'The car no matter how advanced cannot improve you the spirit or your mind.' It cannot drive you, you can however drive it and improve it. You use it not the other way around. It does use what you give it though including your Ki.

Anyway, I know you are really talking about conditioning certain things with regards to the body ie: internal.

Unfortunately you can't have it both ways.

Heavy work on spirit and mind, practicing waza, as a single approach to body work? All body work has spirit and mind involved so that is the single approach and is all three involved so what's your point?

Firstly I think you misunderstand spiritual activities like yoga or 'sitting zazen' for twenty years. (you can sit in a chair if you like) Your misunderstanding is that the physical calms the mind and spirit. Totally wrong and backwards. All yoga's and zen and spiritual disciplines like such work just as I said before: Spirit calms mind which calms body. The body calms nothing.They all are to do with you controlling your mind, doing mental exercises to bring about desired effect in the body and thus all three in harmony.

Now experts in this let's say yoga can transmit and effect things around them. The point is that the body is made quiet and relaxed and then the yogi can get up to whatever it is he is practicing 'without' the body. Why? Because self improvement is a spiritual activity and mental discipline.

I gave an example in another thread how a short lady came and watched Aikido and liked what she saw. She was quite a bubbly spiritual friend of mine. Never done any martial art or 'body conditioning' specialized activity yet she asked if she could try. She wanted to do 'that thing' where two people can't lift you up. Just whispering one thing in her ear and she could do it. Two big guys couldn't budge her.

So the above is to get reality straight first.

Now, I know you are thinking about the body conditioning and really talking about I/P. So why keep saying it's all about body? All those I/P things are part spiritual and part mental exercises with the body. The emphasis is spiritual and mental actually, unfortunately I would suspect more mental.

So yes it is working with all three emphasizing complimentary and efficient. So what's so new and mind blowing or eye opening about that to you? I would really like to know. The fact that so many here have said how it has been so to them leads me to think that they haven't been relating and complimenting all three before. Is this true?

Now, finally I will say this. Not for the first time in history a fellow comes along, quite an enlightened fellow and says you can do this spiritual advancement activity with mental discipline with body work involved. In other words not just spirit and mind but using the body at the same time in action. It's not new, Bodhidharma did the same thing although he did it with monks. His reasons were more to to with stopping them deluding themselves and keeping it real. Zen has the similar view in as much as keeping wide awake and alert in now, zanshin. Spirit in now calms mind and body.

So I like the 'all three in harmony' way and thus see how Aikido is perfect for such as not only do you have to learn how to keep all three in harmony but to do so in the face of someone trying their best to stop you doing so by the means of actually attacking you. What better test could their be?

So the middle ground can only be when you say in each exercise that you do what the three things are that you are doing. What are you doing spiritually?, what are you doing mentally? and what are you doing physically? in that one exercise. Then you could add for what purpose and to what effect?

Peace.G.
 

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