Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Websites

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-03-2012, 09:28 PM   #1
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,087
United_States
Offline
Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

New Blog Post! Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross - Izanagi and Izanami cross the Floating Bridge of Heaven:

http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/...y-of-the-cross

Enjoy,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2012, 11:31 PM   #2
Henrypsim
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu Hawaii
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 40
United_States
Offline
Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

I have seen a lot of Aikido books (perhaps not enough). Most of them refers to techniques and techniques. None of them could decode what O-sensei was trying to say until you, an Aikido "heretic" comes along (as far as I know) and begin to decode what O-sensei's teaching of which most Aikido instructors either do not understand; feels that their cup of tea is full; too proud to admit ignorant; do not know how to teach/explain or do not get a damn. Sincerely wish you would write a book! (NOT intended to insult any individual, dojo or style of martial arts. Just my own opinion. Remember our constitutional right of free speech please)
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2012, 02:09 AM   #3
Ernesto Lemke
Dojo: Seikokan , Leeuwarden
Location: Leeuwarden. the Netherlands
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 150
Netherlands
Offline
Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

+1

Ernesto
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2012, 04:27 AM   #4
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,075
Japan
Offline
Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
New Blog Post! Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross - Izanagi and Izanami cross the Floating Bridge of Heaven:

http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/...y-of-the-cross

Enjoy,

Chris
Chris - small question.

This cosmology is it separate and distinct from Omoto-kyo or intimately tied in. I know I am asking for a fine line to be drawn in a somewhat hazy landscape but it is a question that springs to mind.

There is more than one close student that felt a close study of that sect would help to understand Ueshiba's aikido. I know Tomiki made a point of it but I never got a clear indication whether he found it particularly useful.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2012, 08:27 AM   #5
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,508
United_States
Offline
Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
New Blog Post! Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross - Izanagi and Izanami cross the Floating Bridge of Heaven:

http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/...y-of-the-cross

Enjoy,

Chris
Enjoy?

Chris, your work is absolutely fantastic--and I don't mean in "fantasy" terms. As Henry says, I hope you will write a book and bring out these amazing translations in light of the new understanding of internal development aiki. I will certainly buy it.

Meanwhile, I'm going to go back through all your earlier posts and drink them up!

Great work.

Thanks immensely.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2012, 10:16 AM   #6
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,087
United_States
Offline
Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
Chris - small question.

This cosmology is it separate and distinct from Omoto-kyo or intimately tied in. I know I am asking for a fine line to be drawn in a somewhat hazy landscape but it is a question that springs to mind.

There is more than one close student that felt a close study of that sect would help to understand Ueshiba's aikido. I know Tomiki made a point of it but I never got a clear indication whether he found it particularly useful.
That's a good question - the short answer is that I wouldn't bother unless you're specifically interested in it, but that a good working knowledge of Shinto in general is useful (essential?) to decipher what Ueshiba was talking about.

Omoto-kyo can be different in some ways from regular Shinto, and Ueshiba's personal interpretations can get a little different from that, so it gets complex.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2012, 10:25 AM   #7
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,087
United_States
Offline
Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
Enjoy?

Chris, your work is absolutely fantastic--and I don't mean in "fantasy" terms. As Henry says, I hope you will write a book and bring out these amazing translations in light of the new understanding of internal development aiki. I will certainly buy it.

Meanwhile, I'm going to go back through all your earlier posts and drink them up!

Great work.

Thanks immensely.

David
Thanks David!

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2012, 03:38 PM   #8
Tom Verhoeven
Dojo: Aikido Auvergne Kumano dojo
Location: Auvergne
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 295
France
Offline
Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
New Blog Post! Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross - Izanagi and Izanami cross the Floating Bridge of Heaven:

http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/...y-of-the-cross

Enjoy,

Chris
This fits in neatly with the scroll of the tiger.

Was wondering about the pronunciation of "Aikiju". Do you have any references as to where I could find that pronunciation? I have always been taught that it was "Aikito", "to" being an alternative for "ju". It then becomes a pun as "to" sounds like "do" (tao). Which is part of the word-play with figures of Kiichi Hogen.

Tom
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2012, 03:52 PM   #9
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,087
United_States
Offline
Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

Quote:
Tom Verhoeven wrote: View Post
This fits in neatly with the scroll of the tiger.

Was wondering about the pronunciation of "Aikiju". Do you have any references as to where I could find that pronunciation? I have always been taught that it was "Aikito", "to" being an alternative for "ju". It then becomes a pun as "to" sounds like "do" (tao). Which is part of the word-play with figures of Kiichi Hogen.

Tom
The person that I spoke to about this (who trained at hombu with Ueshiba in the 60's) pronounced it "do" (without even going through the "to" stage), so it becomes one of those interminable Japanese puns

I left it as "ju" rather than going into the longer explanation.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2012, 06:09 PM   #10
Tom Verhoeven
Dojo: Aikido Auvergne Kumano dojo
Location: Auvergne
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 295
France
Offline
Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

Just to add to the story and for what it's worth; In his book "The secrets of Aikido" John Stevens published a photo of O Sensei pointing to a kamidana (page 29). The foto is part of a series of photo's published in "Training with the master" by John Stevens and Walter von Krenner (page 82 - 83). One of these photo's can also be seen here: http://zenwood.com/woodwork.html.
While these photo's were being taken O Sensei explained that this little shrine was meant for the Aiki cross.
Tom
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2012, 06:58 PM   #11
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,075
Japan
Offline
Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
T
Omoto-kyo can be different in some ways from regular Shinto, and Ueshiba's personal interpretations can get a little different from that, so it gets complex.
Of that I am sure.

My interest in Aikido lies closer to home - I have no ambition to think like or be like Ueshiba. Still the beliefs of the old man seemed to resonate down to levels I am more directly involved in so your explanations do help to put things in context.

There is an Omoto-kyo shrine at Shodokan Honbu visited by their priests. Tomiki studied the works intensively and Nariyama for a time taught at Ueshiba M.'s old dojo at the sects headquarters. So it is there but luckily I don't have to worry about it too much.

Cheers

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 02:34 PM   #12
davoravo
Location: New Zealand
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 67
Offline
Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

Hi

Another great post. I suspected Juji might have multiple layers of meaning (Physical, ki, spiritual) like Osensei's other writings. Particularly I though Juji might refer to energy crossing from one side of the body to the other at an intersection, maybe front-to-back.

So, I hunted down the Aunkai definition. This interview very similar stuff on 6 directions etc to Osensei. See 6 th post.

http://www.rumsoakedfist.org/viewtop...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Last edited by davoravo : 06-05-2012 at 02:36 PM.

David McNamara
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 11:18 PM   #13
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,508
United_States
Offline
Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
New Blog Post! Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross - Izanagi and Izanami cross the Floating Bridge of Heaven:

http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/...y-of-the-cross
In the "Floating Bridge" article,I find support for my interpretation of "masakatsu agatsu" not as "victory over oneself" but as "victory of being oneself," more or less.

From the Floating Bridge article:

"Ame-no-minakanushi was the first deity to appear in heaven - in other words, the "Boss" who stands in the center. ...Ueshiba says that you yourself are the "Boss" - as in 我即宇宙・宇宙即我 " I am the Universe, the Universe is me.". This is a very simple, but very important and powerful point."

To me, masakatsu agatsu means winning the right or freedom to be oneself. It's the right we wanted to gain when we sought out martial arts.

And this part made me think of Itsusu no Kata in judo, as demonstrated by Kyuzo Minfune:

"The "Boss" stands on the Floating Bridge uniting the opposing In-Yo forces and moves in a spiral..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBv2lJdH7vc

The third exchange is what I mean, but it also appears in the fifth.

Very interesting points.

Thanks.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2012, 02:14 AM   #14
davoravo
Location: New Zealand
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 67
Offline
Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

The cross may refer to anatomc structures in the body at least in qigong. A cross can be drawn with a vertical line between the heart and the tandien and a horizontal line between the two kidneys. The centre of the cross is the Mingmen which is on the spine between L2 and 3 although some texts state the Mingmen is in the right kidney (even older texts say in both kidneys.

My apologies if all of this is obvious to everyone but me. It is all new stuff to me that I have been reading up on inspired by The blog.

The kidneys are water and the heart is fire. The kidneys provide yin and yang qi which is combine into Qi by the Mingmen. The heart also represents heaven while jing (essence) from the kidneys descends to the tandien and represents earth.

The goal of some qigong is to reach sagehood or virtue (te) as described in the tao te Ching. One who reaches such a state is in harmony with heaven and earth. This is achieved by balancing fire and water and combining the energies of jing (earth or physical essence), qi (yin and yang or fire and water) and Shen (heaven or spirit). To achieve this one opens and closes the mingmen by performing specific in-out breathing which is co-ordinated with physical movement while using the will (zhi housed in the kidneys) to focus the mind (Shen housed in the heart) on the Mingmen or the tandien.

The Mingmen is the "gate of life" but is also the female origin or mysterious female referred to in thetao te Ching. The Mingmen controls the triple or 3 level burner which is the 3 levels of energy interchange and conversion in the body. Because of its importance in the alchemic process the triple burner has been referred to poetically as the bridge of heaven.

Energies move between the body by ascending and descending, condensing and evaporating, expanding and contracting (also translate as exiting and entering), they also divide and reunite

Last edited by davoravo : 06-15-2012 at 02:19 AM.

David McNamara
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2012, 10:00 PM   #15
davoravo
Location: New Zealand
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 67
Offline
Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross

This is a quote for David orange

“I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self.” - Aristotle

David McNamara
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Long Island Asian Studies Center - Classes: Aiki Budo/Chi Gong/Tai Chi, Author of: Searching For O'Sensei



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:45 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate