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Old 05-29-2012, 07:51 PM   #201
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
The problem is that there is no problem. Part of Aikido training is not blaming others for our actions. Your reasoning, David, is like blaming a woman wearing a skirt for being raped. Our responses and actions reflect on those who make them not on those who supposedly provoke them.

Inner power is defined differently for different people. I think it is a combination and blending of the 2 extremes of the 2 camps that appear on this thread. The spirituality comes from the humility of taking responsibility and letting others be on their own path.

Early on I read that Jun asked us not to get into a discussion about who was better than others.

On another note: when the 220 man pushes against you is your stance natural or in hamni?

From the Dalia Lama this morning: The many factors which divide us are actually much more superficial than those we share.
I like this Mary very much.

Also that the problem is there is no problem. Excellent. It's quite amazing how that is one thing many can't tolerate so they have to make one or try to make someone one.

When posts I make turn into me as the subject I always find that aspect fascinating and amusing as it's not about me it's about views gained.

So many expert opinions on me ha, ha, I'm famous.

It's all good. The other facet I find amazing is the continued attempts to tell me how I am, how I should be, what I should do, who I should meet, wow! Such caring folk.

Some believe I should be out there selling my way.

No, I believe that's not necessary, organic, or my way of doing things. It's that simple really.

I like and specialize in translating into practice the spiritual sources of the art, that's my way. Thus finding that all spiritual principles and virtues do certain things come to realize what Ueshiba was talking about. For instance they all blend in their various ways hence when I see an Aikido style which emphasizes this I like it and see why.

Myself, I have my own developed way. My advanced students will go on to teach it in their own personal way and so on. So for me no selling needed. No touring doing shows needed. No have to meet so and so needed. No corporate thinking needed.

Those of negative thought towards me are welcome to have them for it's their mind not mine.

All I know is my way works, is good and is beneficial. People come to learn, they improve, they achieve.

Ha, ha, there is no problem.

Peace.G.
 
Old 05-29-2012, 07:58 PM   #202
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

The attempts to shut people down that can do what they do in Aikido is obvious. Maybe a threat is perceived. The response seems over the top to me.

 
Old 05-29-2012, 08:13 PM   #203
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Talking to the idea of agendas

Graham I think you are going to have to create your own others and those.....or find another route to them.

Graham This sounds to me with the way it is written like (again) yours is the true understanding...and to forgive us because we are lost....in the wilderness.....can you see how this might seen by others?

Graham I think the difference here is with the results ..most of us would like to see the ending without harm or damage......I just don't think this is possible every time.

Graham I think that I have called you the avatar ....as for being the standard bearer......to me it looks like you have been placed in this position by many of those who step up to defend you. You know how truth goes...perceived and actual.....actual always plays catchup to perceived,

and peace be with you. Good luck on your journey and as one old movie cowboy used to say....."happy Trails"

Gary
Hi Gary, I don't think I need another route really. I notice some may not reply directly but then see new threads bringing up and discussing things I mention like enlightenment etc. It's all good.

Not sure about like to see the ending bit or why or if you really do even. I say this because it appears most already have a set ending in mind and so if they see anything different may not understand it, as in my videos.

The one that comes across as 'superior understanding' may well be. I apologize not. For it is not superior just true. People mentioning spiritual tend to get ridiculed due to the commonly held beliefs that it equals ineffective and various other things. Just a fact. Come across as it may I understand this phenomenon and why.

I don't think it's so much defend me Gary, it's usually more to do with pointing out bad behaviour or the unwarranted negativity.

I saw one on this thread where a person asked Jun to ban someone. That's like schoolboy behaviour.

In other words I say its not good, I am talking about it rather than defending the person it was aimed at.

Peace.G.
 
Old 05-29-2012, 08:17 PM   #204
Anthony Loeppert
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
The attempts to shut people down that can do what they do in Aikido is obvious. Maybe a threat is perceived. The response seems over the top to me.
Hilarious! Mary, I will share something with you: I have only placed two people on my ignore list (many months ago) on this site. You and Graham. Neither are on it now after personal reflection. I'm reconsidering my decision on you.
Oh no! I'm threatened! OR just tired of reading BS.
 
Old 05-29-2012, 08:20 PM   #205
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

An interesting formula:

Freedom versus Form
Too much form leads to Tyranny
Too much freedom leads to anarchy

Another witty thought:
If something has substance, it need not be defended.

And finally:
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
Friedrich Nietzsche
 
Old 05-29-2012, 08:29 PM   #206
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
The attempts to shut people down that can do what they do in Aikido is obvious. Maybe a threat is perceived. The response seems over the top to me.
Yes it has seemed like that to me too many a time. Agendas?

Being against another is being against self. Another spiritual rule. Thus any complaint is as to why they are against themselves so much.

Peace.G.
 
Old 05-29-2012, 08:33 PM   #207
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
An interesting formula:

Freedom versus Form
Too much form leads to Tyranny
Too much freedom leads to anarchy

Another witty thought:
If something has substance, it need not be defended.

And finally:
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Sankyo very much.
 
Old 05-29-2012, 08:35 PM   #208
Anthony Loeppert
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
An interesting formula:
Freedom versus Form
Too much form leads to Tyranny
Too much freedom leads to anarchy
I'm a Yoshinkan practitioner. Form is very important to us. However the form is not a dictator, but a teacher. My teacher's teacher has mentioned that (paraphrasing) the form cleans the (wine) glass. What you pour into it is yourself. Would you drink from a dirty glass? Would you pour something valuable (yourself) into a dirty glass?
 
Old 05-29-2012, 08:46 PM   #209
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
.
Quote:
The one that comes across as 'superior understanding' may well be. I apologize not. For it is not superior just true. People mentioning spiritual tend to get ridiculed due to the commonly held beliefs that it equals ineffective and various other things. Just a fact. Come across as it may I understand this phenomenon and why.
Graham You are free to follow your course..... I see you as having one of many views on the truth not the one truth....... That is what sets you apart from me

Quote:
I don't think it's so much defend me Gary, it's usually more to do with pointing out bad behaviour or the unwarranted negativity.
Graham Bad behavior is not one sided here........

Quote:
I saw one on this thread where a person asked Jun to ban someone. That's like schoolboy behaviour.
Graham This is big time stuff here.....any man in this country is at the effect of any woman who decides to make statements like this that lead to follow on statements that can spiral out of control and can cause immeasurable damage to a man's life. Even if cleared it leaves a stain. I doubt that you could find any American male making statements about women on this forum that carry the same accusatory effects as the one directed at a male earlier in this thread.

Quote:
Peace.G
and peace be with you.......

Gary
 
Old 05-29-2012, 09:02 PM   #210
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

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Anthony Loeppert wrote: View Post
I'm a Yoshinkan practitioner. Form is very important to us. However the form is not a dictator, but a teacher. My teacher's teacher has mentioned that (paraphrasing) the form cleans the (wine) glass. What you pour into it is yourself. Would you drink from a dirty glass? Would you pour something valuable (yourself) into a dirty glass?
I Love that analogy.

Puha

Chris
 
Old 05-29-2012, 10:29 PM   #211
hughrbeyer
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

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David Orange wrote: View Post
In budo, claims have to be proven with ability, or they are simply BS. Or, as in the case of Ueshiba's many references to Chinese concepts, you have to have documentation.
Incidentally, "prove it" doesn't have to happen by knocking someone out in a cage or putting them into a submission hold or kicking their teeth in. There's lots of ways of playing on the mat which allow you to see who has control and who doesn't.

Ellis Amdur has a description on pushing on someone--who he doesn't name, but having had exactly the same experience, I think I know--and feeling that he not only was having no effect on the other guy, but he was simply pushing himself off balance. That was all the test it took to know that the guy had something he didn't have.
 
Old 05-29-2012, 11:21 PM   #212
David Orange
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

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Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
David
In 1983 Shioda came to the Norwalk area here near where I live....

...of course I was not going to test him.....but he did tenchi nage on me...was under me to start with of course and I didn't feel the movement until I was already going backwards. He is one of the those I said previously that I had felt something in who had since passed on.

I think I still have the flyer signed by one of his deshi...if I can find it I will post it.

Gary
Excellent! You should post on the It Had to be Felt thread, where Robert Mustard talks about Shioda! Add details!

Of course, Shioda was not spiritual at all. Purely physical, you know, but charming, wasn't he?

Hey, and happy upcoming birthday! Hitting 70, huh? Do the years between 57 and 70 go very fast, by the way? I should probably get ready somehow...oops. Just got older!

Best to you, man!

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
 
Old 05-29-2012, 11:47 PM   #213
David Orange
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Zen. I have informed how I started Aikido and it was called Zen Shin Kan Aikido. Emphasis....spirit.
Are you sure the "Zen Shin" referred to Zen as in Buddhism? It could mean "All New." From what I've seen of your teaching, that makes more sense. Long ago, I read an article by an expert who explained that the "dan" in shodan, nidan, etc. meant "man." When you reached shodan, he said, you are "first man." At nidan, you become "second man." Problem was, the "dan" meaning "man" is written with a different character entirely than shodan, nidan, etc. It means "level" or "floor," as in "first floor," "second floor," etc.

Who created the Zen Shin Kan? What did they split off from to create it? Who taught them?

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Most conducive method.....Ki Aikido...shin shin toitsu. Overall purpose.....Harmony. Overall policy.......Effectiveness.

So, similar to Ki Aikido with emphasis on immovable mind and effectiveness.
That second bit, there...bit unclear...sounds like being casual, but could be method of disguising actual meaning. What are you trying to say? Or are you just trying to imply with careful omission of actual meaning?

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Everything I have heard Dan say or any one else to do with I/P with regards to 'stopping' or showing how ineffective much Aikido is against it I witnessed as standard procedure by my teacher years ago. Much to my bemusement at the time.

I learned that doing such things eventually is easy hence personally not being impressed by such stories or even realities. Note I said personally. I do not consider it a thing to shout about and so this is the first time I've said it.
Sure, Graham. And whose aikido did your teacher "stop"? Did he go up to the Hut and stop Henry Ellis? See, that is real aikido and I doubt your teacher ever met people on the level of those at the Hut. So....anyone can beat a paper samurai...unless they're just really, really pathetic....

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Being somewhat of a specialist therefor in the spiritual side and much to my amazement it seems effective spiritual side don't exist in manys minds or experience I choose to inform people that is is and can be so don't give up on your path.
Again....your "spirituality" has no resemblance to that of real aikido masters like Shioda, Mochizuki or Ueshiba, himself, which was much closer to the spirituality of judo and men like Kano, Toku, Mifune and other great masters. The "spirituality" and "philosophy" of Japan is glamorous, though, to the uninitiated Westerner, and many try to copy the surface image of it without understanding that it can only be expressed and developed through physical training.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
...those who compare my way without any reality on it cannot but seem strange or amusing to me.
Just as your claim to practice aikido is very strange to those who have met and trained with real masters of the real art. You claim "without any reality on" aikido. People notice and comment. It seems strange, but definitely not amusing.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
 
Old 05-29-2012, 11:59 PM   #214
David Orange
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
The attempts to shut people down that can do what they do in Aikido is obvious. Maybe a threat is perceived. The response seems over the top to me.
The only threat I perceive (in both you and Graham) is to the poor, pathetic souls seeking some kind of enlightenment, hearing of Morihei Ueshiba's ability and finding very poor mimics in black belts and hakama who not only cannot do what the average sankyu of thirty years ago could do but are sweating blood to redefine aikido not as what Morihei did but as the vapid space dance most commonly advertised these days as "aikido".

But your responses definitely reflect a fear of something. I think it's "fear of being found out."

Good luck with that.

(It will take longer if you stop posting vids, BTW.)

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
 
Old 05-30-2012, 12:06 AM   #215
David Orange
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
People mentioning spiritual tend to get ridiculed due to the commonly held beliefs that it equals ineffective and various other things.
Most of the physically and technically excellent judo, karate and aikido people I have known are highly spiritual. Mochizuki was. Shioda was.

So it's not just "people mentioning spiritual" who get ridiculed. It's the people "mentioning spiritual" in a way that experienced people can instantly recognize as way off the point and usually a "homemade" kind of spirituality--Zen teachers who never trained in Zen, etc.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
I don't think it's so much defend me Gary, it's usually more to do with pointing out bad behaviour or the unwarranted negativity.
Yeah. To paraphrase a "master," it's not negativity: it's just true.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
I saw one on this thread where a person asked Jun to ban someone. That's like schoolboy behavior.
A spiritual guy like you shouldn't need the passive-aggressiveness, Graham. The comment was on this thread and it was made by me. In response to a scurrilous statement about me. And you, in your "sly" passive-aggressiveness carry it a bit further by calling me "boy". But you don't mind at all the low-brow slander against me...

You're transparent, dude. It's weaselly. Depedestalize yourself and get real.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
 
Old 05-30-2012, 01:28 AM   #216
David Orange
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Yes it has seemed like that to me too many a time. Agendas?

Being against another is being against self. Another spiritual rule. Thus any complaint is as to why they are against themselves so much.

Peace.G.
I guess I really shouldn't feel so insulted by Mary's remark. She was just trying to protect you. Of course, she views you as a rape victim in a short skirt....

At least she didn't accuse me of actually raping you....

Still...why bring in a sexual analogy at all on a forum like this?

Mary...I said earlier that you seem to be afraid of "being found out," but here, you've exposed yourself and shown us what you're really like underneath. See?

If this were aikido randori, what you did would be easily recognized as a very cheap shot.

Again...agenda????

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
 
Old 05-30-2012, 04:07 AM   #217
mrlizard123
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Eh. You don't control the truth, and you can't protect people from falsehood. You have to not treat them as children and let them protect themselves. It's not your responsibility to keep people from barking their shins and scraping their knees (and a damn good thing, too, because you have no power to do so).
Sorry for the delayed response, been training...

No one said I could control truth, that would be something of a burden... but I think you can go some way to help people decide between truth and falsehood by commenting on it.

People can be allowed to protect themselves and as adults they should, though they have better chances when they're informed which is probably why they're doing looking around on the internet; my point was that people coming to the site looking for information without sufficient experience are analagous to children, not in maturity but simply in their understanding and ability to sift wheat from chaff in a new field.

The point has been made repeatedly; if people wished to do anything they wanted and say that it fulfils them, be it flower arranging or hitting themselves over the head with sticks more power to them. When people start saying things like "doing what I do produces X result" be that, the ability to fly, breathe under water, outrun a tiger etc. people with experience with flying, underwater activities or tigers might feel that the information provided is misleading to people who don't know better and feel that there is benefit in refuting it for those who do not have any experience.

Peer review is a reasonably good thing.

If I were to go on another site on another topic, say one on slimming perhaps, and post that I had an effective weight loss programme which allowed you to eat as many pies as you liked provided you drink an 8oz. glass of water with each I imagine there would be people who would view it with a variety of reactions and some would likely post their responses.

Some would dismiss it as nonsense, some would ask for explanation on how it worked, some would wish to see proof, some would declare it as being irresponsible to suggest such a method to people looking to achieve the goal of slimming...

What's a novice slimmer who likes pies (and who doesn't like pies?!) to do? I'd suggest the best method would be investigation, probably starting with the information that seemed to be supported by those with experience in the field.

If several qualified dieticians pointed out that there was no way this could work and no evidence to support it and I had a video of me eating a pie but I looked a bit portly or maybe a pie-maker pointed out that I wasn't eating pies at all they were lettuce leaves I'd expect people reading/viewing to knock it down their list of possible methods to try.

If however several such qualified people spoke out in support of my pie method, historical record indicated that this method had been previously used successfully over a long period of time and I had reviews from many people who had used this method and seen positive results people might push it higher up their list of things to investigate/test, if they are serious about slimming, but it only works when people with experiences in the fields provide their opinions and perspectives on the subject either supporting or refuting the methods and activities in question.

It's not about controlling truth and falsehood, it's about ensuring that people who are thinking about selecting a method or methods to add to their training are able to select based upon reasonable peer review, such as is possible via the medium of the internet.

Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile
 
Old 05-30-2012, 05:16 AM   #218
Lorel Latorilla
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

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Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I believe that Dan et. al. are using "internal (not inner) power" to refer to a set of musculoskeletal causes and effects, that has little or nothing to do with one's mental or spiritual state. I could be wrong about that, so hopefully they will correct me if I am -- but I don't think they've claimed the term "inner power", and I'm pretty sure they haven't claimed any spiritual component as such.
Just wanted to add to this. A couple of weeks ago, I almost got into a fight out of anger and discovered that one's mental/emotional state definitely (one's spirit is also intertwined with INTERNAL power but I won't get into that) is involved in musculo-skeletal causes and effects. If you try to observe yourself really really angry, you have a great sensation of power, and this sensation of power essentially comes from tensing (even slightly) the upper back, especially the shoulder area. For internal power, this is no good because tensing that part even slightly and moving in that way pretty much nullifies skills that manipulate energy from both gravity and the ground.

Unless stated otherwise, all wisdom, follies, harshness, malice that may spring up from my writing are attributable only to me.
 
Old 05-30-2012, 06:03 AM   #219
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

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Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Graham You are free to follow your course..... I see you as having one of many views on the truth not the one truth....... That is what sets you apart from me

Graham Bad behavior is not one sided here........

Graham This is big time stuff here.....any man in this country is at the effect of any woman who decides to make statements like this that lead to follow on statements that can spiral out of control and can cause immeasurable damage to a man's life. Even if cleared it leaves a stain. I doubt that you could find any American male making statements about women on this forum that carry the same accusatory effects as the one directed at a male earlier in this thread.

and peace be with you.......

Gary
Bad behaviour is very one sided here as is negativity. Some posters cannot help but say negative things, use put downs of another, continuously. Funny thing is they are the first to complain, usually at great length and complete with even more insults. On the other hand some don't, in fact most don't.

I would even go further and say Aikido and indeed other martial arts have as one of their main rules and functions that of teaching how to be respectful towards others, politeness and good behaviour. That means refraining from insults, put downs, ridicule etc. If one of my students was going around insulting people or bullying or even continually being negative I would stop teaching them. Simple.

It's big time stuff is it? Or only when you want to make a point? You seem to take what a person gave as an analogy, once again pointing out bad behaviour, rather personally. It was not a personal attack. Wow. Some people love playing the victim in order to get others in trouble. Look at yourself not others I say.

Don't go into the gender thing, that's not the issue. It's a behaviour and good manners thing.

Peace.G.
 
Old 05-30-2012, 06:24 AM   #220
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
Are you sure the "Zen Shin" referred to Zen as in Buddhism? It could mean "All New." From what I've seen of your teaching, that makes more sense. Long ago, I read an article by an expert who explained that the "dan" in shodan, nidan, etc. meant "man." When you reached shodan, he said, you are "first man." At nidan, you become "second man." Problem was, the "dan" meaning "man" is written with a different character entirely than shodan, nidan, etc. It means "level" or "floor," as in "first floor," "second floor," etc.

Who created the Zen Shin Kan? What did they split off from to create it? Who taught them?

That second bit, there...bit unclear...sounds like being casual, but could be method of disguising actual meaning. What are you trying to say? Or are you just trying to imply with careful omission of actual meaning?

Sure, Graham. And whose aikido did your teacher "stop"? Did he go up to the Hut and stop Henry Ellis? See, that is real aikido and I doubt your teacher ever met people on the level of those at the Hut. So....anyone can beat a paper samurai...unless they're just really, really pathetic....

Again....your "spirituality" has no resemblance to that of real aikido masters like Shioda, Mochizuki or Ueshiba, himself, which was much closer to the spirituality of judo and men like Kano, Toku, Mifune and other great masters. The "spirituality" and "philosophy" of Japan is glamorous, though, to the uninitiated Westerner, and many try to copy the surface image of it without understanding that it can only be expressed and developed through physical training.

Just as your claim to practice aikido is very strange to those who have met and trained with real masters of the real art. You claim "without any reality on" aikido. People notice and comment. It seems strange, but definitely not amusing.
Obviously you can't help but question anything I say. Shame. Mmmmmm. I train in Zen Shin Kan by a teacher who promotes zen and you wonder if I know what the zen referred to. Amusing.

Don't see what's unclear on the second bit.

You comment on my spirituality without knowing. Nice that you keep comparing me to masters though.

Peace.G.
 
Old 05-30-2012, 06:35 AM   #221
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
Most of the physically and technically excellent judo, karate and aikido people I have known are highly spiritual. Mochizuki was. Shioda was.

So it's not just "people mentioning spiritual" who get ridiculed. It's the people "mentioning spiritual" in a way that experienced people can instantly recognize as way off the point and usually a "homemade" kind of spirituality--Zen teachers who never trained in Zen, etc.

Yeah. To paraphrase a "master," it's not negativity: it's just true.

A spiritual guy like you shouldn't need the passive-aggressiveness, Graham. The comment was on this thread and it was made by me. In response to a scurrilous statement about me. And you, in your "sly" passive-aggressiveness carry it a bit further by calling me "boy". But you don't mind at all the low-brow slander against me...

You're transparent, dude. It's weaselly. Depedestalize yourself and get real.
Doesn't matter what the reasoning for doing so is the act of ridiculing and insulting is what is unnecessary, uncalled for, bad behaviour. The act. No excuses. Budo.

Peace.G.
 
Old 05-30-2012, 08:06 AM   #222
David Orange
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Obviously you can't help but question anything I say.
Well, Graham, everything you say and show is completely questionable and your command of the Japanese language is known to be rather lacking. Beginners can swallow whole whatever claim you make, but those with some experience start to smell fish rather quickly.

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Shame. Mmmmmm. I train in Zen Shin Kan by a teacher who promotes zen and you wonder if I know what the zen referred to. Amusing.
Right. Again, Zen Shin Kan could mean "All New House".

And if your teacher "promotes Zen" the same way you "promote aikido," of course, there is every reason to question what he's doing. Association with you alone stimulates that question.

Please tell us about Zen, bud. What's your teacher's background in Zen? What are his qualifications to "promote" it? That's probably even more exploitable than aikido, so it seems very, very questionable at best.

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
You comment on my spirituality without knowing. Nice that you keep comparing me to masters though.
Comparing you to masters? Hardly, pal. I'm measuring you against the established masters. The hat does give you a little extra stature, but I think if we press a little, we'll find it rather mushy up there....

Is the hat something your "Zen master" encouraged?

This just gets better and better. Please tell.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
 
Old 05-30-2012, 08:21 AM   #223
David Orange
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
It's big time stuff is it?
Yes, Graham. In the US, it's like arsenic. We have another little thing called "the race card," which is a dirty tactic generally used only by cowards.

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Or only when you want to make a point? You seem to take what a person gave as an analogy, once again pointing out bad behaviour, rather personally.
Don't be just willfully stupid. It was made as a personal attack of a calculated and vicious type. There was no call for it. It was wrong, to begin with. Asking a questionable character to prove his claims has nothing to do with "blaming a woman for being raped because she was wearing a short skirt." And to suggest that it does has no usefulness and no good intent. It's precisely the kind of attitude we very commonly find among people with ineffective aikido. They can't do, so they have to tear down those who can by any means necessary, typically by kuchi-waza, spreading untrue rumors about people, claiming (as some do about Dan) that the person in question will hurt you on the mat and so on. The toughest, most honest aikido I ever met was extremely dangerous for the average person only because it takes serious concentration and technical excellence. The "softest" aikido classes I attended were always where I was most likely to get a cheap shot.

Psychologically, Mary's comment is an attempt at castration, nothing more or less. Good thing mine are brass.

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
It was not a personal attack. Wow. Some people love playing the victim in order to get others in trouble. Look at yourself not others I say.
You're a victim only if you let the low-life succeed. So now you're saying that the woman who is raped is trying to get the rapist "in trouble". Didn't the rapist do that himself? Mary made a seriously wrong comment and simply showed her true colors. Whatever "trouble" arises from this came in with her. So look at yourself. The bad behavior is in equating our efforts to protect aikido's hard-won reputation for valorous action to "blaming a rape victim". It shows utter lack of character and the refusal to apologize for it shows an attitude of superiority born of having never experienced real struggle.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
 
Old 05-30-2012, 08:50 AM   #224
David Orange
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Doesn't matter what the reasoning for doing so is the act of ridiculing and insulting is what is unnecessary, uncalled for, bad behaviour. The act. No excuses. Budo.
Graham....the act of coming on here and lecturing us on everything from aikido to Zen while burrowed in safely behind the keyboard is bad behavior. You get what you pay for and you have bought yourself a boatload.

About twenty years ago, when I was living in Japan but before I became Mochizuki Sensei's uchi deshi, I had a phone conversation with an old training partner in the States. He told me that the organization I had co-incorporated ten years earlier had passed a "regulation" stating that anyone who went to Japan and was promoted by Mochizuki would not be recognized in the US without the approval of the technical director.

I found that so insulting to both myself and Mochizuki Sensei that I got extremely angry. I was EXTREMELY angry: an organization supposedly representing Mochizuki but intending to dispute a rank awarded by Mochizuki? It was mere jealousy that I had the guts to go and train directly with Mochizuki when the technical director wanted to rule while living a cushy life at home. It was utterly disgusting. But I found myself so incredibly angry, I didn't know what to do.

Then I recognized that this anger was a response I had learned in my early days of martial arts training. It was a response to fear. I was so incredibly angry because I was afraid that these people could actually enforce this idiot regulation in all their ego.

So, to overcome the anger, I decided to do something to face my inner fear. I'd read Richard Kim's story about training spear in a graveyard at night to face one's fear of ghosts, so I decided to go to the nearest graveyard and do zazen as long as necessary for the anger to pass.

I walked up the street to a little path that led up the dark, wooded mountain and hiked up the rugged trail alone in the dark. It was about a 20 minute climb to a Zen temple that overlooked the broad valley. I intended to go into the graveyard, but it turned out that the graveyard was inside the temple wall and I found the gate locked. So I sat down in the gate in seize on the concrete foundation pad. And there I sat in the Japanese night, on a mountain in the woods.

In Kim's story, he was in the graveyard with his Sensei and a training partner, each of them alone in a separate part of the cemetery. Kim conquered his fear by continuing to train hard with the spear and after a time, he went to find his friend. When he found him, the man was not training, but staring into the blackness with a look of horror on his face. Then suddenly, the man dropped his training weapon and ran down the trail into the darkness. "The last I heard of him," Kim said, "he was selling umbrellas in Yokohama."

So I expected some horribly frightening experience, but I was determined to face it as Odagiri Ichiun faced his terminal illness: sitting in zazen alone in the dark.

But nothing happened. I sat and sat and was as still as I could be for a long, long time, my knees against the concrete pad, until my anger had completely passed. And then I got up and headed back down the dark mountain trail.

But just as I got to the edge of the dark trail, I heard a bizarre and incredible scream from the trees nearby. It sounded like some strange bird or some animal I could not identify, but I was sure it was a person trying to scare me and no telling how many of them or who they might be. It shocked me and sent a chill through my whole body. I had the powerful urge to run! Of course, I quickly saw that I would probably go right off the mountain if I did that.

Instead, I thought, "Well, I came to face my fear, so let come what will," and I put my mind at my one-point and corrected my posture and walked calmly on as if I were still sitting in zazen.

After I took a few steps, the scream came again, but I had full confidence, now. Whatever it was, I would face it with the help of God.

I just kept my center and walked calmly back down the dark, winding path through the woods and back to my home.

Next time I saw the teacher who had promised to negate a rank given by Mochizuki, he could not move me in any way, even though I didn't do anything to resist him. I'd been in Japan four years by then, training regularly with three sixth dans under Minoru Mochizuki's direction. I was also teaching my own classes at the dojo. The American teacher's body was simply stiff and slow, even though he was not yet fifty years old. He was just a desk worker with a black belt, head of an organization, but not much on budo training. When I attacked, the way he set up his technique, it put me back on balance instead of inducing kuzushi. I didn't resist him: his technique just pushed me into a balanced position and made it impossible for him to throw me. He tried once, then twice and I felt rather embarrassed, worrying that people would think I was trying to make him look bad, so the next time he tried, I went limp and forced myself to remain in position for him to sweep my foot. Even then, he left me with so much balance I had to just fall to keep from looking like I was trying to show him up.

After that, I never did think much about that guy. Last I heard, he was selling aikido somewhere in the southern US.

Kewl.

Last edited by David Orange : 05-30-2012 at 08:55 AM.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
 
Old 05-30-2012, 09:35 AM   #225
Gary David
 
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
I would even go further and say Aikido and indeed other martial arts have as one of their main rules and functions that of teaching how to be respectful towards others, politeness and good behaviour. That means refraining from insults, put downs, ridicule etc. If one of my students was going around insulting people or bullying or even continually being negative I would stop teaching them. Simple.

Peace.G.
Graham
One last story and I let this drop.... Back in the 80's a fellow came out of no where, much like you, claiming skill and expertize. He was using Aikido as a tool to move on to what he really wanted. Aikido got him entrance into an existing community that could provide him with support. As I recall our dojo was ask to support him by having him in for a Saturday class...this was to present him to a new audience. Well he came and conducted class....he brought his own uke and used them only. He would not let any of us touch him.. I tried to grab a wrist and he pulled it back. His skill was kyu level at best. He has moved on to what he really wanted and seems to be quite successful......his Aikido really isn't any better and he never comes out.

He was there seeking acceptance and confirmation.....but not verification or validation by outside sources. This is the same approach you have taken...seeking confirmation and validation on the web and have found some who will. Much like this other fellow you refuse to seek verification and validation from independent sources. Maybe you will end up as successful as he seems to be....

As for politeness and good behavior.....it is like respect....it is given where it is earned and returned..

good luck with it all....

Gary
 

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