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Old 06-03-2012, 07:11 AM   #301
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Thanks Matthew and Gary for pointing out something.

In the past I have explained how I was taught from a zen perspective and even said a number of times that you could say my approach is 'backwards' compared to how most do it. The different things I have said I thought communicated sufficiently for people to understand I use a different approach.

Through exchanges via pm I see that it could be better (maybe) to do a thread called 'my approach' or some such. The reason being that those who keep 'contending' and 'misunderstanding' what I say and giving analogies with people they have met which are in fact nothing like me and with totally different approaches and effectiveness.

This up to now I have found fascinating and sometimes amusing but realize now that although I may learn about others and their views I would have to present almost a whole in depth structured explanation and philosophical base for some to understand.

Most don;t need to for they can see my way is different in approach and have no need to go any further and know if they ever meet me then any curio would be answered. Some however feel a need to equate it with other things. I am now thinking, forget all the given 'reasons' such give and believe for them I would have to give as I have said above.

I can't say my way is new really because I was taught 'similarly' from early eighties.

I can't say my approach is new really because it is as old as the hills.

I can say it is very rare to find others who use this approach.

I can say that no one is ever under any delusions that my approach is anything to do with any organizational Aikido. So they start off knowing not to compare with other Aikido and are encouraged to, when they feel ready, go out and physically train with other styles in order to satisfy any curiosity.

Those who come from other styles in the first place of course don't need to.

Therefor I don't need to say it's like any Aikido they have seen or experienced so there is no false presentation. This is knocked on the head from day one, usually prior to day one.

There is one method I use as a tool for beginners and as it happens it runs through all levels which people will be familiar with and that is the Ki Aikido approach. However even with that I point out my Aikido is not that.

I have a friend who teaches praying mantis kung fu, no more than a mile from here. He broke away from the organization and went independent and developed his own way too. Now his way is his way. No one relates it to others. My 'godson' trains with him. Although he is seen as a type of 'outcast' for not toeing the party line and many 'barriers' are thrown his way for not doing so by over zealot folk in that arena, and by the way because he is not 'chinese' he carries on none the less.

He doesn't mind, in fact enjoys being a small operation. His students are happy. Just as an aside in that arena there are competitions. He does still enter any students that want to into them. My 'godson'
actually won the British championship too a few years back. So contrary to popular belief throughout martial arts there are many good small operations around. Not everyone wants to be in the big show.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-03-2012, 08:31 AM   #302
Hellis
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Hi Graham

Sorry if this comes under - off topic -
I have recently completed an article on Masamichi Noro Sensei for the next `IHTBF` series, detailing personal experiences training with the masters of Budo.
I note,somewhere, you claim that your teacher Mike Muspratt was a student of Noro Sensei?
I was the personal assistant to Ken Williams Sensei and therefore involved in seminars – summer schools - during each and every one of the early visiting Aikido masters.

Derek Eastman and I also made visits to Noro Sensei’s dojo in Paris.
I am not questioning the fact that Mr Muspratt may have attended a seminar / course with Noro Sensei or an occasional visit to the HutDojo? – I am just curious as to how you can claim Mr Muspratt was a `student of Noro Sensei`.
I don’t personally remember Mr Muspratt either at the Hut dojo or on courses, so I would be interested in any info you may have ?
Henry Ellis
Co-author `Positive Aikido`
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
 
Old 06-03-2012, 09:33 AM   #303
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Hi Graham

Sorry if this comes under - off topic -
I have recently completed an article on Masamichi Noro Sensei for the next `IHTBF` series, detailing personal experiences training with the masters of Budo.
I note,somewhere, you claim that your teacher Mike Muspratt was a student of Noro Sensei?
I was the personal assistant to Ken Williams Sensei and therefore involved in seminars -- summer schools - during each and every one of the early visiting Aikido masters.

Derek Eastman and I also made visits to Noro Sensei's dojo in Paris.
I am not questioning the fact that Mr Muspratt may have attended a seminar / course with Noro Sensei or an occasional visit to the HutDojo? -- I am just curious as to how you can claim Mr Muspratt was a `student of Noro Sensei`.
I don't personally remember Mr Muspratt either at the Hut dojo or on courses, so I would be interested in any info you may have ?
Henry Ellis
Co-author `Positive Aikido`
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
Hi Henry.
Simply I claim because because I have no reason to disbelieve him. I have asked my friend about this who started with me to check even my recalls and yet he recalls even your name and Sensei Williams name being mentioned to us on a number of occasions. Hence my surprise with you not remembering. I do recall you mentioning him in a post in as much as someone you knew went to a dojo in north watford which probably was him.

His stories of his numerous exploits revolved around two charachters, Noro and Tohei. Noro as his teacher and Tohei as his prefered explanations. Many other charachters were mentioned on the English side of things and many seemed to pass through our place. We didn't know who was who at the time and were not interested as students.

So I can claim who my teacher was and as for the rest I am sure it's easily verifyable.

Those from the past who trained with him prior to me would be the best ones to ask if you want more details. I have the name of one such who runs his own school and is in fact in the picture with him I once posted from the 1978 I think Tohei summer camp in wales I believe. So you can get in touch with him if you like, he has fond memories of Mike.

I respect his wishes and so don't trouble him with such matters but I am sure you could if you really wanted to contact him yourself. He still trains to this day. He's still at the same location. Like Ken williams he doesn't want or have much to do with the outside politics of things and gossip. Unlike Ken Williams he doesn't head or run an organization.

Anything else you would like to know from me as to names or contact details I'll give you via pm.

Finally all I will say is this, which may or may not trigger any memories. The two main things he told me and Bob back then as his reasons for splitting were these.

1) He felt if he made a big scene about the political situation at the time it would have ended up causing yet another faction following him and so decided against that.

2) That on the spiritual or Ki Test side of things most were not interested and those who were were as a lot are described today. He said they talked and acted like they could do these Ki tests but he would test them and find he would have to fail them so they were being unreal.

Such are the two main consideratins he had as relayed to us which he said led to him going private.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-03-2012, 10:30 AM   #304
David Orange
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
In the past I have explained how I was taught from a zen perspective and even said a number of times that you could say my approach is 'backwards' compared to how most do it. The different things I have said I thought communicated sufficiently for people to understand I use a different approach.
What, really, do you mean by "a zen perspective," Graham?

Having read your whole post, it points up the fundamental problem: what you say and show (on vids) seems to have no relation to either aikido or Zen.

And the question then becomes, did you just make all this up?

Or did your teacher just make it all up? He created "his own style of Zen"?

Is it a VW with a BMW hood ornament?

A lion with an elephant's snout? A dog with flippers???

Where did this come from?

Doesn't look like or sound or read anything even vaguely related to either Morihei Ueshiba's practice or to Zen.

So at least, please describe what you're calling zen and how it relates to Morihei Ueshiba's art.

Thanks.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
 
Old 06-03-2012, 11:24 AM   #305
David Orange
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Simply I claim because because I have no reason to disbelieve him. I have asked my friend about this who started with me to check even my recalls and yet he recalls even your name and Sensei Williams name being mentioned to us on a number of occasions. Hence my surprise with you not remembering. I do recall you mentioning him in a post in as much as someone you knew went to a dojo in north watford which probably was him.
I once had a fellow come to my class at a YMCA in Birmingham (Alabama). His student may have come to an earlier class and brought this guy along as his "teacher" to see what I was doing. The "teacher" advised me that he had created his own style from "kyokushin karate, kodokan judo (very specifically) and Tae Kwon Do." He showed me some of his kihon waza and it was just bizarre. His karate did not approach anyone's who had taught me to that point and his judo....I just couldn't see where it came into the equation. He wore a pendant of a fist-in-palm within a circle, on a little chain around his neck. I didn't notice it during warm-ups. I didn't allow any jewelry or rings of any kind during our practices, so I told him he'd have to take the pendant off when we went into technique practice. "It might cut your neck, or someone's hand with the techniques we do."

He looked shocked and said, "Oh, no! I never take this off!" and he backed off the mat bowing elaborately and giving me the praying hands. He sat to the side and watched while his student actually went through the workout. At the end of our two-hour session, as we were all headed for the locker rooms to change clothes, the student approached me and said, "Sensei wants to fight with you (or spar or randori, or whatever)."

I just didn't reply and went on to change. My reasons were very simple: the guy didn't go through the workout, so he hadn't earned the right to randori; he undoubtedly intended to wear that medallion while "fighting" and I wasn't going to have that; since he hadn't trained with me, I wasn't sure of how his body would move or how well he could take the falls; and I didn't know much about him as a person, what his temperament would be. Also, with the Tae Kwon Do influence, I wasn't sure what kind of things he would try but I felt there was a lot more danger for him than for me. I didn't want to have some nut's broken neck on my account.

However, with his background and the nature of his "art," I figured he would also claim that "his art" was composed of kyokushin karate, kodokan judo, tae kwon do and yoseikan aikido. Who knows? He may have decided that watching my class qualified him for a black belt in yoseikan (even though I was only ikkyu at the time). We actually did have a guy who started awarding ranks in yoseikan after observing a number of classes. Granted, we were running classes from his established dojo and he was a very experienced teacher of jujutsu, judo and karate, but he had not trained in the yoseikan classes and no one had ranked him even shodan. So how could he promote and rank people in yoseikan? So I figured this guy with probably a few months each in kyokushin, judo and TKD, would soon be a master of yoseikan based on attending a brown-belt's single class.

So what might someone do after meeting Noro two or three times?

In my experience, there are plenty of people who would froth that up into a whole new Tao...

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
His stories of his numerous exploits revolved around two charachters, Noro and Tohei. Noro as his teacher and Tohei as his prefered explanations. Many other charachters were mentioned on the English side of things and many seemed to pass through our place. We didn't know who was who at the time and were not interested as students.
Well....."True Stories" are very easy to create, as I demonstrate in the "True" Story thread in the Open Discussions.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
So I can claim who my teacher was and as for the rest I am sure it's easily verifiable.
Well....if it's so easy to verify.....

Or maybe it's not. I think T-Rex Sensei's summary is pretty telling. I mean....he was able to document Jack Poole's attendance. But Mike Muspratt just doesn't show up at all. If you claim to be an old-timer, but none of the old-timers remember you, though they remember each other and a lot of less-developed people who passed through...it just doesn't ring the bell.

As a student, that would bother me.

FWIW

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
 
Old 06-03-2012, 12:30 PM   #306
Gary David
 
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
Well....if it's so easy to verify.....

Or maybe it's not. I think T-Rex Sensei's summary is pretty telling. I mean....he was able to document Jack Poole's attendance. But Mike Muspratt just doesn't show up at all. If you claim to be an old-timer, but none of the old-timers remember you, though they remember each other and a lot of less-developed people who passed through...it just doesn't ring the bell.

As a student, that would bother me.

FWIW

David
Folks
FIRST off so as to not shock anyone....or have them fall off their chair.....I am not defending Graham!!

Having said that a couple of things:
  • Have not we run with this one to long?
  • Have we not spent enough energy on this one……and I am not talking about Graham's energy?
  • Has there not been enough dialog on Graham's lineage to give anyone who wonders places to confirm or deny?

Talking about "lineage"..... for some this can be very important, for others not so much.... let me explain what I mean by not so much. As someone else pointed out a way back the question of lineage revolves around the involvement of one as an uchi deshi.......you have direct lineage. For most of us we were associated with an instructor or instructors, but never as uchi deshi. So for me you list out the instructors you were/are associated with and the teachers that have had major impact on your journey. The only two dojo I have ever been connected to directly are Orange County Aiki Kai and Aikido Ai. The two instructors there, Harry K Ishisaka and Frank McGouirk, shaped large parts of my approach to Aikido. Other major contributors to what my Aikido is now and is becoming have been folks like John Clodig, Walter Muryasz, Frank Doran, Shōji Nishio, Mitsugi Saotome, Terry Dobson, Mark Murray, Dan Harden..........and even Mike Sigman. All of these folks have to some degree shaped my art, my thoughts, my questions......have altered my path or put light on it. Some of the contact has been in passing......but had lasting effects.........

As to Aikido.......to me it has become much like the tail of the blind men and the elephant. It has gone through so many set of folks each adding their "touch" as it has been passed along it doesn't seem to be much like the original......

Besides with the visibility as it is today.....everything gets exposed to the light......

just go straight....

Gary
 
Old 06-03-2012, 12:33 PM   #307
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Hi Graham

I was only interested as you had mentioned the connection with Mr Muspratt and Noro Sensei.
I do think there is a difference between being a student of a teacher and attending a lesson or two.

His stories of his numerous exploits revolved around two charachters, Noro and Tohei. Noro as his teacher and Tohei as his prefered explanations. Many other charachters were mentioned on the English side of things and many seemed to pass through our place. We didn't know who was who at the time and were not interested as students.

You may be familer with the Jack Poole controversy? I was contacted by phone by a senior dan grade of Mr Poole's, he asked me a few questions regarding the claims of Mr Poole. I invited to make the 30 min journey to my home and see my files - statements - photos - videos. I also offered him the full use of my printer. He came to see me, after seeing the evidence and a good chat, he said to me " Sensei Ellis, I totally believe you, I don't know if I can ever practice Aikido again - I have sat with Mr Poole and listened to many hours of wonderful stories of his life of Budo".

I felt for this really decent guy who had been betrayed by the teacher he trusted.

Henry Ellis
Co-author `Positive Aikido`
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
 
Old 06-03-2012, 02:01 PM   #308
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

In my area right now we have a guy awarding "jiu jitsu" blue belts to students after a few hours of seminar study. Not that I care but we have had these guys showing up at schools claiming to be blue belts in BJJ. On one hand it don't matter cause the mat don't lie in BJJ. On the other hand me and several of the senior black belts are concerned that someone may get hurt eventually working outside of their "pay grade". I don't really care about protecting the art...just as I am all about Graham or anyone else doing whatever they wish. Certainly don't think that he or anyone else is bringing down the art or anything. What he or anyone else does has no effect on me.

However, it is a shame when someone gets hurt and the relationship of trust is violated. I hate that. I was recently severely injured and I am recovering from a complete shoulder reconstruction cause, while I know what I am doing as a brown belt in BJJ, I got myself in over my head with a dojo I was visiting with a junior student that happened to have some decent skills. Before I knew it the guy finished an uchi mata with a full flip follow through and buried his shoulder into mine to complete the throw.

The point is, the trust relationship was violated. I trusted the dojo and the instructor would protect me, I trusted my skills and instincts. In the end, looking back, much went wrong quickly and if the layers of protection and supervision and assessment would have been there welll...it would not have happened.

So, in what we do...it requires a great deal of trust, care and honesty. When people lie, cheat or steal it will come back to hurt someone eventually. We can't afford for safety and health mentally, physically, and spiritually to allow this to remain broken.

So while it doesn't matter to me what another person chooses to do...I abhor those that lie, cheat, and steal and I have no room for them in my budo.

 
Old 06-03-2012, 02:52 PM   #309
lbb
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
You actually wrote two questions, which were not equivalent. And I have little patience for word games.
Word games? What I wrote was:

"Do you really think that this is an analogous situation? As in, that Graham's advice, if followed, will predictably and directly lead to serious physical harm?"

If you want to insist that that's two questions, okay, I won't argue with you. The second is actually not a sentence at all, but whatever. And I'm not playing word games. I'm summarizing your example as one in which advice was given that would, if followed, predictably and directly lead to serious physical harm, and asking you if you really think that Graham's advice would do the same. I'm just asking you to clarify your position. I'm not sure why you find the question offensive.
 
Old 06-03-2012, 03:14 PM   #310
hughrbeyer
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
If you want to insist that that's two questions, okay, I won't argue with you. The second is actually not a sentence at all, but whatever. And I'm not playing word games.
Uhmmm... yeah, okay.

Answers to your two questions can be found in my first response. Further answers are forthcoming, but having been warned not to make any assumptions about what you really mean, you'll have to ask them explicitly.

 
Old 06-03-2012, 03:20 PM   #311
David Orange
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Folks
FIRST off so as to not shock anyone....or have them fall off their chair.....I am not defending Graham!!

Having said that a couple of things:
  • Have not we run with this one to long?
  • Have we not spent enough energy on this one……and I am not talking about Graham's energy?
  • Has there not been enough dialog on Graham's lineage to give anyone who wonders places to confirm or deny?
And yet...we all keep posting....

I do know what you mean. At the same time, every go-around seems to bring out a little more detail.

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Talking about "lineage"..... for some this can be very important, for others not so much....
I don't really care which particular line anyone comes down through except I would like to see that it his connected on the other end to Morihei Ueshiba and it's also good to know how strongly it's connected. Down where I live, we have a hell of a grass-roots karate tradition and most of it is pure garbage, encouraging the kinds of things described above. Got a green belt under Mas Oyama? You can be fourth dan because there's a fifth dan who only got to blue belt under Oyama. Got six months each in karate, judo and kyudo? You are now Soke of your own traditional Japanese budo ryu. I was first exposed to this about 40 years ago when it had some twenty or thirty years of tradition. Now it has sixty or seventy years of tradition and it's hooked in with all kinds of World Soke Councils or World Headmaster Honor Patrols or something like that.

I'd just like to know that whoever I'm talking to got his stuff from someone with experience and in good standing with a real root source. Otherwise, it's just trash. Just trash.

That kind of thing, I like to discourage.

Anyway, points well made.

Best to you.

David

Last edited by David Orange : 06-03-2012 at 03:27 PM.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
 
Old 06-03-2012, 03:24 PM   #312
David Orange
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
In my area right now we have a guy awarding "jiu jitsu" blue belts to students after a few hours of seminar study...
Well said. Speedy recovery.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
 
Old 06-03-2012, 03:56 PM   #313
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

I'll just say this to end this. I have met many from various structured organisations complete with 'empirical' this and that and like Dan (of all people, using him as an example, shame on me) they got shocked and bewildered and wondered why they hadn't been taught what they found with me. Thus they felt kind of 'betrayed'.

I on the other hand spent a lot of time getting them away from that view of betrayal by insisting that their teachers are teaching what they consider is all there is so it's not a betrayal. I appease them by saying they have not wasted any time because what they have learned is valuable. They can then add anything they learn from me and have the best of both worlds. As I keep saying, it's all good.

I have enquired as to my teacher 'prior' to teaching me and met some interesting folk. One, who is also a high Dan grade told me if I get any grief regarding Mikes credentials to put them in touch with him and he'll soon sort them out.

So I'm quite happy about it thank you very much.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-03-2012, 04:36 PM   #314
David Orange
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
I have enquired as to my teacher 'prior' to teaching me and met some interesting folk. One, who is also a high Dan grade told me if I get any grief regarding Mikes credentials to put them in touch with him and he'll soon sort them out.
Well, put me in touch, Graham.

Thanks.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
 
Old 06-04-2012, 08:17 AM   #315
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post

I have informed how I started Aikido and it was called Zen Shin Kan Aikido. Emphasis....spirit.
I am curious if "Zen Shin Kan Aikido" was part of Jon Alexander's (trained with KENSHIRO-ABBE 10th Dan.) Zen Shin Budo Kai / Zen Shin Budo Alliance. There is a thread regarding this organisation on Bullshido: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99802

 
Old 06-04-2012, 12:08 PM   #316
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
I am curious if "Zen Shin Kan Aikido" was part of Jon Alexander's (trained with KENSHIRO-ABBE 10th Dan.) Zen Shin Budo Kai / Zen Shin Budo Alliance. There is a thread regarding this organisation on Bullshido: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99802
No. No relationship. It's still where it is and where it has always been. A little private dojo, in north watford, nothing to do with nobody. Been there must be about 40 years.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-04-2012, 12:59 PM   #317
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Been there must be about 40 years.
Fits well with Jon Alexander's career ( http://www.martialartstrainer.org.uk/2.html ) .

 
Old 06-04-2012, 01:14 PM   #318
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Just checked the first post. See you are.......mmmmm....oh well.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-04-2012, 01:22 PM   #319
Hellis
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
I am curious if "Zen Shin Kan Aikido" was part of Jon Alexander's (trained with KENSHIRO-ABBE 10th Dan.) Zen Shin Budo Kai / Zen Shin Budo Alliance. There is a thread regarding this organisation on Bullshido: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99802
"KENSHIRO-ABBE 10th Dan and MASAFUMI-SUZUKI, 10th Dan, as well as many other prominent martial art teachers, most are unfortunately now deceased. "

It is very kind of Mr Alexander to promote Kenshiro Abbe Sensei to 10th dan - Abbe Sensei did decline 8th dan from the Kodokan - he accepted 8th dan from the Butokukwai.
I have spoken with Gerry Gyngell and others, no one knows of Mr Alexander. He should be honoured that Bulshido have recognised his fame.

One has to smile at "most are unfortunately now deceased" - how many of these people claim to have been trained by deceased Budo masters thinking there will be no come back.

Henry Ellis
Co-author `Positive Aikido`
http://aikido-bracknell.blogspot.com/
 
Old 06-04-2012, 01:50 PM   #320
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
United_States
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
"KENSHIRO-ABBE 10th Dan and MASAFUMI-SUZUKI, 10th Dan, as well as many other prominent martial art teachers, most are unfortunately now deceased. "

It is very kind of Mr Alexander to promote Kenshiro Abbe Sensei to 10th dan - Abbe Sensei did decline 8th dan from the Kodokan - he accepted 8th dan from the Butokukwai.
I have spoken with Gerry Gyngell and others, no one knows of Mr Alexander. He should be honoured that Bulshido have recognised his fame.

One has to smile at "most are unfortunately now deceased" - how many of these people claim to have been trained by deceased Budo masters thinking there will be no come back.

Henry Ellis
Co-author `Positive Aikido`
http://aikido-bracknell.blogspot.com/
Henry:

Hope things are well for you across the pond! If you ever track down Mike Muspratt's training lineage, I will look forward to reading that post..... People like Mr. Alexander have been around for a long, long time.... Honest questions with genuine scrutiny typically flesh them out. To me, people who do not question what they are told hold as much responsibility for perpetuating myths and lies as much as those who create the myths and lies.

Regards,

Marc Abrams
 
Old 06-04-2012, 02:51 PM   #321
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 597
England
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Henry:

Hope things are well for you across the pond! If you ever track down Mike Muspratt's training lineage, I will look forward to reading that post..... People like Mr. Alexander have been around for a long, long time.... Honest questions with genuine scrutiny typically flesh them out. To me, people who do not question what they are told hold as much responsibility for perpetuating myths and lies as much as those who create the myths and lies.

Regards,

Marc Abrams
Hi Marc

As you can see, I am still hanging on :-)

I would certainly not place Mike Muspratt in the same category as Mr Alexander and Jack Poole.

I spoke with my old friend Haydn Foster Sensei regarding Mr Muspratt shortly before Haydn passed away.
He had a good laugh at the memory of himself riding a pop pop moped all the way from Uxbridge in the London suburbs to Watford in Hertfordshire to teach at Mike Muspratt's dojo.
I actually remember him doing that. Haydn said that Mr Muspratt had visited the Hut Dojo occasionally, so I would not dispute that, I almost lived at the Hut dojo, I just don't remember him.

I don't doubt that Mr Muspratt attended the occasional courses with Nakazono Sensei and Noro Sensei.

My only dispute is with Graham's claim that Mr Muspratt was `a student of Noro Sensei` - that I would have remembered.

Over the years I have seen claims by so many people who were taught for several years by the dan grades from the Hut Dojo, they claim they were taught by a Japanese teacher who they had been on a seminar with at some point in their career.

I had a guy recently who became very abusive on my Kenshiro Abbe videos, he demanded to know why I had never mentioned his teacher who was a true pioneer of British Aikido.
I explained that the reason I never mentioned the guy was simple - I had never heard of him.
He countered with " My teacher was a special student and friend of Kenshiro Abbe for twenty years.
I suggested he inform his teacher that Abbe Sensei was only in the UK for nine years.
They walk amongst us.

Henry Ellis
Co-author `Positive Aikido`
http://aikido-bracknell.blogspot.com/
 
Old 06-04-2012, 03:23 PM   #322
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
United_States
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Hi Marc

As you can see, I am still hanging on :-)

I would certainly not place Mike Muspratt in the same category as Mr Alexander and Jack Poole.

I spoke with my old friend Haydn Foster Sensei regarding Mr Muspratt shortly before Haydn passed away.
He had a good laugh at the memory of himself riding a pop pop moped all the way from Uxbridge in the London suburbs to Watford in Hertfordshire to teach at Mike Muspratt's dojo.
I actually remember him doing that. Haydn said that Mr Muspratt had visited the Hut Dojo occasionally, so I would not dispute that, I almost lived at the Hut dojo, I just don't remember him.

I don't doubt that Mr Muspratt attended the occasional courses with Nakazono Sensei and Noro Sensei.

My only dispute is with Graham's claim that Mr Muspratt was `a student of Noro Sensei` - that I would have remembered.

Over the years I have seen claims by so many people who were taught for several years by the dan grades from the Hut Dojo, they claim they were taught by a Japanese teacher who they had been on a seminar with at some point in their career.

I had a guy recently who became very abusive on my Kenshiro Abbe videos, he demanded to know why I had never mentioned his teacher who was a true pioneer of British Aikido.
I explained that the reason I never mentioned the guy was simple - I had never heard of him.
He countered with " My teacher was a special student and friend of Kenshiro Abbe for twenty years.
I suggested he inform his teacher that Abbe Sensei was only in the UK for nine years.
They walk amongst us.

Henry Ellis
Co-author `Positive Aikido`
http://aikido-bracknell.blogspot.com/
Henry:

I hear you..... I had to "clean-up" a mess about two years ago with somebody misrepresenting the relationship with my teacher. To his credit, he addressed the issue immediately. He was faced with me posting the truth regarding certain claims and chose the better route. There is nothing quite like keeping exact records...... Keeps people in line who try and embellish. Graham's responses to me regarding some questions that I posited regarding his teacher's "relationship" with Tohei Sensei also "clarified" what things were and were not. Unfortunately, the dead cannot speak as much as what is written on the internet cannot be fleshed out unless it is done in person. We know where that seems to always lead with the poster..... And so it goes and so it goes....

Be Well,

Marc Abrams
 
Old 06-04-2012, 03:55 PM   #323
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
England
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Hi Marc

As you can see, I am still hanging on :-)

I would certainly not place Mike Muspratt in the same category as Mr Alexander and Jack Poole.

I spoke with my old friend Haydn Foster Sensei regarding Mr Muspratt shortly before Haydn passed away.
He had a good laugh at the memory of himself riding a pop pop moped all the way from Uxbridge in the London suburbs to Watford in Hertfordshire to teach at Mike Muspratt's dojo.
I actually remember him doing that. Haydn said that Mr Muspratt had visited the Hut Dojo occasionally, so I would not dispute that, I almost lived at the Hut dojo, I just don't remember him.

I don't doubt that Mr Muspratt attended the occasional courses with Nakazono Sensei and Noro Sensei.

My only dispute is with Graham's claim that Mr Muspratt was `a student of Noro Sensei` - that I would have remembered.

Over the years I have seen claims by so many people who were taught for several years by the dan grades from the Hut Dojo, they claim they were taught by a Japanese teacher who they had been on a seminar with at some point in their career.

I had a guy recently who became very abusive on my Kenshiro Abbe videos, he demanded to know why I had never mentioned his teacher who was a true pioneer of British Aikido.
I explained that the reason I never mentioned the guy was simple - I had never heard of him.
He countered with " My teacher was a special student and friend of Kenshiro Abbe for twenty years.
I suggested he inform his teacher that Abbe Sensei was only in the UK for nine years.
They walk amongst us.

Henry Ellis
Co-author `Positive Aikido`
http://aikido-bracknell.blogspot.com/
Hooray!!!!
At last a little bit of fact and truth seeps out.

Aren't we human beings fascinating? You can say what you like about me but when someone tries their best to belittle your teacher or question even his existence it tends to bring a different feeling or response.

So At last we have here one recall of a teacher from those early years who knew him. Plus the fact that he trained at the Hut too. Little bits and pieces, no doubt more will come to light.

I agree Henry that the bit that don't add up in your mind is the Noro connection. No doubt that will be resolved as to how much and when sooner or later.

The number of people he mentioned to us in those days of my early training I don't even remember so as it happens if and when I find out I could be an even more extensive lineage up ha, ha.

Here's a bit more data for those interested, even the ones who are interested for what I call nefarious reasons.

There is a teacher who is at this moment a 5th Dan, (maybe 6th by now) who runs his own organization in spain. A friend and student of his has a dojo here in central london and has invited me down to meet and train when actually.

Now using a bit of Maths and logic I will give you the following data.

Said teacher was around in Henrys day and was taught by various teachers of whom Henry will no doubt know many.

Said teacher names his teachers from those days and thanks them all. From a British perspective it's probably quite an illustrious small list. He names them as Gregory Ford, Haydn Foster, Ken Williams, Kanatska San, Koichi Tohei, Wasil Kolesnikov, Ron James and Mike Muspratt.

Not as fellow practitioners but as Teachers.

No doubt some of these charachters were ones who Mike told us about but we had no significance or need or desire to remember such things as they were not our teacher.

Now this fellow was more to do with the welsh aikido set up I assume which would make sense and hence the summer school in wales with Tohei where he and Mike attended.

His name is Sensei Jones and he runs the Sho Shin Kan Dojo based in spain.

I have talked to him personally and he says Mike was a great teacher.

Why people are interested in these things I still find funny personally for I don't care too much who anyones teacher was. It's interesting to a small degree for me but that's all.

Peace.G.
 
Old 06-05-2012, 03:18 AM   #324
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,916
Spain
Offline
Re: Spiritual and i/p

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
His name is Sensei Jones and he runs the Sho Shin Kan Dojo based in spain.

I have talked to him personally and he says Mike was a great teacher.
Gareth Jones?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM5Z2S7lnoo

 
Old 06-05-2012, 03:48 AM   #325
sorokod
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 601
United Kingdom
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Re: Spiritual and i/p

Yes: http://marbella.to/aikido/sensei.htm

 

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