Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-18-2012, 07:38 AM   #1
Chris Knight
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 138
England
Offline
Lunchtime musings

Sat on my lunch-break mulling over a few thoughts

I'm a young 30 year old - I'm torn between building my body up with muscle for vanity and a bit more power (as well as to keep the wife happy ) or to concentrate solely on internal development at the detriment of muscle mass searching for the untapped power that is available, to incorporate into my aikido.(tm)

What if I get stuck in-between, where I suck at internal strength, and don't build myself up with muscle - I have a friend who practices with me who doesn't understand my internal strength quest, and likes to be all muscle - he's fairly strong, but will never understand the potential that's available, and will never be interested either.

Has anyone else thought about this?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 07:50 AM   #2
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
Offline
Re: Lunchtime musings

well, being a not so young 60 year old, i don't have those external pressures of other people's expectations - so, i just focus on the internal expectations of me just being myself - enjoy your journey

greg
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 08:45 AM   #3
chillzATL
Location: ATL
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 847
United_States
Offline
Re: Lunchtime musings

If you liked to paint and you sucked would you just give up? IMO, with all the info that's out there now, all the people you can meet and all the efforts to take this stuff out of the purple smoke mystical realm and make it a fairly easy to grasp method of body conditioning and usage, the only way you'll suck is if you aren't putting in the time and trying. Beyond that, it's a hobby, not something our lives or livelihoods depends on. I think too much is made about the whole "wrong path" thing. Just like everything in life it's a process of learning, doing, improving, finding better methods, re-learning, doing and improving, rinse and repeat. As long as you're honest with yourself it should be fun.

Oh and you can work out, stay in shape and do IS.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 09:01 AM   #4
Dazzler
Dojo: Bristol North Aikido Dojo
Location: Bristol
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 647
England
Offline
Re: Lunchtime musings

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgPDdWirzBA

@chris....if you need help "working out".
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 10:31 AM   #5
Chris Knight
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 138
England
Offline
Re: Lunchtime musings

Quote:
f you liked to paint and you sucked would you just give up? IMO, with all the info that's out there now, all the people you can meet and all the efforts to take this stuff out of the purple smoke mystical realm and make it a fairly easy to grasp method of body conditioning and usage, the only way you'll suck is if you aren't putting in the time and trying. Beyond that, it's a hobby, not something our lives or livelihoods depends on. I think too much is made about the whole "wrong path" thing. Just like everything in life it's a process of learning, doing, improving, finding better methods, re-learning, doing and improving, rinse and repeat. As long as you're honest with yourself it should be fun.

Oh and you can work out, stay in shape and do IS.
cheers jason , you are right, i just wonder what happens if i put the time and effort in and still suck afterwards!

i always thought that you cant work out with this method of training as it goes against what your working for??

@daz - how do you know me so well...- can you picture it lol!

@ greg - the wife aint bothered if i have the six pack really, it's just i get a bit of a complex when she keeps going on about Peter Andre....
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 10:34 AM   #6
Chris Parkerson
Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
Location: ohio
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 740
United_States
Offline
Re: Lunchtime musings

I take it you are suggesting that weight training binds and constricts muscles, thus it works against the goals of internal training. For the most part, you are probably right. But there are many ways to maintain a tight yet flexible frame.

Yoga, Pilates, Dance, Core training as done by many arts, swimming, gardening, cycling, running, wrestling....
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 10:37 AM   #7
aspen
 
aspen's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Modesto
Location: Merced, Ca
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4
United_States
Offline
Re: Lunchtime musings

Have you considered crossfit? It might provide the right balance between workable strength and movement.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 11:16 AM   #8
chillzATL
Location: ATL
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 847
United_States
Offline
Re: Lunchtime musings

Quote:
Chris Knight wrote: View Post
cheers jason , you are right, i just wonder what happens if i put the time and effort in and still suck afterwards!

i always thought that you cant work out with this method of training as it goes against what your working for??
IMO if you get some decent instruction and apply some logical thought to what you're doing, put in the time, including getting out and working with people who are better than you, it'd be pretty hard to really truly suck. I mean we're all going to suck in relation to someone out there. There's always someone better, always. At the very least you should get to a point where this stuff makes a marked difference in your aikido training. You feel things differently and feel different to the people you train with. At that point they shouldn't think you suck and hopefully they're either already doing what you're doing too or will want to do it and then you have training partners!

It would probably avoid it initially, until you get to where you kind of know the point behind the various things you're doing, physically, and can tell when you're doing things one way vs. the other. At that point I think you can pretty clearly separate the two types of body conditioning, but I'd also say at that point you'll pick one over the other because why spend the time building big muscles on the outside when you're trying to avoid using them? You'll stay plenty toned doing the IS stuff, especially when you hit the point that you're trying to do things that way no matter what you're doing (gardening, etc), you're just not going to have bulging pecs, biceps, etc.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 11:18 AM   #9
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
England
Offline
Re: Lunchtime musings

Chris, one does not detract from the other. A good friend of mine has done both for years and is now 54 yrs old looking like a well ripped, strong 30 yr old.

The only down side is when he demonstrates things to others it's thus so easy for them or especially for those watching from the outside to believe it's down to his muscular frame, ha, ha.

I would say they help each other. I must add though that he is very health conscious too and takes plenty of nutrition and fresh foods and doesn't drink or smoke or take any kind of medications.

So go for it I would say.

P.S.....Don't forget to get a shirt with an S on the chest though.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 11:52 AM   #10
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,238
United_States
Offline
Re: Lunchtime musings

Quote:
Chris Knight wrote: View Post
Sat on my lunch-break mulling over a few thoughts

I'm a young 30 year old - I'm torn between building my body up with muscle for vanity and a bit more power (as well as to keep the wife happy ) or to concentrate solely on internal development at the detriment of muscle mass searching for the untapped power that is available, to incorporate into my aikido.(tm)

What if I get stuck in-between, where I suck at internal strength, and don't build myself up with muscle - I have a friend who practices with me who doesn't understand my internal strength quest, and likes to be all muscle - he's fairly strong, but will never understand the potential that's available, and will never be interested either.

Has anyone else thought about this?
In theory, you can do both at the same time. In practice, I think that the heavy muscle work will most likely screw you up for the other stuff.

Building muscle mass is fairly straightforward and easily accomplished if you put in the time, I'd put it aside for a while and work on the other stuff, which is much more difficult.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 11:56 AM   #11
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,059
United_States
Offline
Re: Lunchtime musings

Quote:
Chris Knight wrote: View Post
cheers jason , you are right, i just wonder what happens if i put the time and effort in and still suck afterwards!
Well, then you burst into tears and choose a spectacular way to end your life. Right?

What do you mean by "suck", anyway? If you were good at whatever it is you pursue, how would you know it? What if you got no external validation, ever, no matter how good you were -- could you live with that? Or would that be the same thing as sucking, in your view?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 01:13 PM   #12
Chris Parkerson
Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
Location: ohio
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 740
United_States
Offline
Re: Lunchtime musings

Sonny Puzikas, former Spetznaz, (featured on Deadliest Warriors - Spetznaz versus Green Berets) uses kettle bells. He is pure "no-nonsense" about training and trade craft.

Here is "The Forge" training he promotes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePUbQ...e_gdata_player

If anyone wonders what his defensives look like, notice his use of Aiki in his systema here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh-Ev...e_gdata_player

Last edited by Chris Parkerson : 05-18-2012 at 01:23 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 04:49 PM   #13
Chris Knight
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 138
England
Offline
Re: Lunchtime musings

mary its unlike you to be sarcastic. ..

hi Chris. what are you defining as aiki in the video as i know everyone has their own interpretation etc.

mary in reply to your ever witty thoughts. .. im a concert pianist andhave been blessed with a gift of performing to an extent although i know my limitations hence i can validate myself. in martial arts it is the same. i know im a beginner but i also know that one day i should feel comfortable and competent to an extent. its all about striving for your own potential not anybody elses.

i can pick up any instrument and play a tune and when i have this competence or flexibility in martial arts ill be satisfied

Chris
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 06:13 PM   #14
Chris Parkerson
Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
Location: ohio
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 740
United_States
Offline
Re: Lunchtime musings

Sonny was trained by the USSR in Systema. Before that he was a bouncer in a rough Russian night club.

He is naturally relaxed and knows how to touch center and move center with efficiency rather than strength. Thus, Aiki is present. His core strength training does not inhibit his technique.

I am on IPhone and cannot point to minutes and seconds on a YouTube because of it's limitations. But during his hand-to-hand section, I easily identified ikkyo, Mae otoshi, heaven and earth, what we in Yanagi call tomoi sonako otosh. There were a host of others as well.

But, he, like many of us, no longer think of technique. We simply work with principles and body memory.

The point of this entry was to show that certain strength and toning training methods do not necessarily bind you up and prevent good internal technique.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 06:28 PM   #15
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,059
United_States
Offline
Re: Lunchtime musings

Quote:
Chris Knight wrote: View Post
i can pick up any instrument and play a tune and when i have this competence or flexibility in martial arts ill be satisfied
And if you never got that kind of validation, what then? Would that be "sucking"?

I'm not arguing that you should have other standards. I'm just curious about what you will do if you can't meet them, no matter how hard or how long you train. You may never get to kind of fluency in martial arts that's equivalent to what you feel in music. Would you rather just not train at all if there's a good chance of that happening?

Again, I'm not trying to convince you that you should feel otherwise than what you do.

(and yes, I am witty as hell)
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fight, run? Some Abstract Musings DaveO General 16 06-07-2016 07:22 AM
Musings on combat distance statisticool General 72 02-01-2007 03:33 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:02 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2016 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2016 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate