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Old 08-08-2002, 03:28 PM   #51
Deb Fisher
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That was very funny, UnReg.

Maybe this is all just a "Venezuela Problem"

Deb Fisher
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Old 08-08-2002, 06:11 PM   #52
Paul Clark
Dojo: Yellow Springs Aikido
Location: Dayton, Ohio
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Fingers,
Quote:
and I'd make a GREAT fighter pilot--- ---although I must admit my 450 hours are undoubtedly no where near yours...
Wow! 450 is pretty good for a doc. I have right at 1500 F-15A-D, just under 3000 total.
Quote:
My flt cmdr, who had had to answer his call, threw a magazine at him at said 'she may not have as many hours as you do, but ALL of hers are in the B model
Is that a B model Viper?

Paul

Last edited by Paul Clark : 08-08-2002 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 08-08-2002, 07:29 PM   #53
Henry Javier
Dojo: Zenbudojo
Location: Caracas, Venezuela.
Join Date: May 2002
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Anne Marie and UnReg, Greetings for both.

I think it's important to clear out a point before keeping misunderstanding each other. In Venezuela, old times, there was a male culture (macho man, remember). Since I know, more or less 15 or 20 years, the role of our women has became increasing, so at almost all the comuinities we have similar roles. I think this has meant progress to us. Actually we threat women as they deserve, and I think that like any other person, they develope any skill or attitude with the only limit they can put to themselves. We don't pratice that machism any more, may be in a minnor amount at very low educational levels but the most of our men don't do it, we don't discriminate anybody because this is a free country. The lady I mentioned in my post is an special case, we do have female Yudanshas with a very high level, and we all are proud of them, so I dont't think this is a contest to know who's better, men or women, we like practicing Aikido in the Master Ueshiba essence, and I think that's the Aikido we all are searching for.

Please keep training, and together we'll be stronger.
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Old 08-08-2002, 07:40 PM   #54
Pretoriano
 
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To girioasis: the first Venezuelan Yudansha was 9 years a go the last one I know 3 months or so.

"But to bring this back to aikido, women can hold their own very well in a dojo. Out of 88 in my dojo there are about 16 of us. Most of women in the dojo are yudansha. We have several female shodans, a few nidans, a couple sandans and one godan. All these women would be insulted if they were called "flowers", "gossip mongers", and "weak". Aikido is a great equalizer. That is why I love it so much"

You are so naive and funny, I yhink I like you.

Pretorian

Caracas, Venezuela
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Old 08-08-2002, 08:44 PM   #55
guest1234
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Quote:
Paul Clark wrote:
Fingers,



Wow! 450 is pretty good for a doc. I have right at 1500 F-15A-D, just under 3000 total.



Is that a B model Viper?

Paul
Yes, dating myself I know , 2/3 of my fighter hours are in the Viper, the rest in the F15D (well, I did wrangle a couple in the E, but don't tell anyone), and to REALLY date myself, I have a couple in the Phantom, and even three in the F100 (but in my defense, it was out of our inventory by then, it was the DART TOW at Deci)... I will always consider the F106 the one that got away... *wistful sigh* oh well, back to Aikido...
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Old 10-11-2005, 09:51 PM   #56
"aikigirl"
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

Pat Hendricks Sensei, Mary Heiny, Linda Holiday, Stephanie Yap, Patricia Guerri, Andrea Siegel, Lorraine Diane, Bernice Tom, Kayla Feder, Penny Sablove, Lia Suzuki, Danielle Moles Smith, Cindy Hayashi, Denise Barry, Mary Tesoro, Yvonne Thelwell, Sandy Olliges, Betsy Hill.
LEARN.
By the way, your "diccionary" is wrong! its written "dictionary".
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Old 10-11-2005, 11:32 PM   #57
"Randomly passing by"
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

Do we really need to resurrect this thing? it's three years old. And dusty. Achoo!
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Old 10-12-2005, 06:03 AM   #58
ian
 
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

Undeniably there are differences between the male and female Brain (there are psychological tests you can do which will tell you whether you are male or female (if you don't already know yourself)).

The amusing thing is, all the things we hate about women (in general), men have selected for them throughout our evolution. Conversely and all the horrible things women hate about men, women have selected for them. Thus we have to be careful about blaming the other sex for what is essentially our ancestors fault!

As a case example (not sure if this is an anecdote), male suicide rates in Sweden are supposed to have increased because many women are deciding to have children with men, but not to stay with their partners. Thus there is stronger selection for men who are quite happy to give women children with no feeling of responsibility. The deviousness of sexual competition is undeniable and prevalent in all societies - but unfortuantely it always comes around and bites us in the arse. Best to just hate people for who they are

Last edited by ian : 10-12-2005 at 06:05 AM.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 10-12-2005, 08:56 AM   #59
Richard Cardwell
Dojo: Belfast Aikido Circle
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

I'm a (male) baby psychologist (just started degree) and on the admittedly not indepth test version I took, I scored at 0 on the x-axis, neither male nor female in terms of my reactions or mental abilities. Some women score well into the "male" end of the spectrum, and vice versa, without there being any known correlation with sexuality.

And incidentally, men are far more inclined to gossip than are women.
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Old 10-12-2005, 01:28 PM   #60
Yossi
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

[quote]However, I have noticed a rise in - get ready - back-biting, gossiping and a much more negative feeling all around. [quote]

haha.... that truly made me laugh.

I can just imagine two women talking during nikyo - "well look at her, i've always hated her, look how dirty her Gi is".

Personally I don't think that's true, I believe men and women behave exactly the same in training. But then again, wherever there are women, there are.....

Last edited by Yossi : 10-12-2005 at 01:29 PM. Reason: didn't quote right
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Old 10-12-2005, 01:59 PM   #61
"Anonymous"
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

I'm female, I've taken those masculinity-femininity personality tests, and I came out 65% masculine/35% feminine. I'm not gay, and I don't have short hair, a mustache, OR a hormone imbalance.

The test tells you which gender you are psychologically, not physically. They don't always match.

Similarly, on the Myers-Briggs personality test, about 70% of women come out as F (for "feeler") and about 70% of men come out as T (for "thinker") but I'm a T. So was Maggie Thatcher. And so, no doubt, is Condoleeza Rice. And so are most engineers, male or female.

I've heard that many (male) clergy and pyschologists test as F.
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Old 10-12-2005, 03:08 PM   #62
Lorien Lowe
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

If person A deliberately spits in person B's face, whose fault is it if person B reacts a little bit emotionally?
Maybe both?

How about if person A calls person B an illogical, petty, back-stabber?

-L
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Old 10-12-2005, 07:06 PM   #63
aikigirl10
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

Quote:
I'm female, I've taken those masculinity-femininity personality tests, and I came out 65% masculine/35% feminine. I'm not gay, and I don't have short hair, a mustache, OR a hormone imbalance.

The test tells you which gender you are psychologically, not physically. They don't always match.

Similarly, on the Myers-Briggs personality test, about 70% of women come out as F (for "feeler") and about 70% of men come out as T (for "thinker") but I'm a T. So was Maggie Thatcher. And so, no doubt, is Condoleeza Rice. And so are most engineers, male or female.

I've heard that many (male) clergy and pyschologists test as F.
where do u take this quiz? curious...

-Paige
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Old 10-12-2005, 07:45 PM   #64
Lorien Lowe
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

Google 'Myers-Briggs' and you should find a plethora of sites.

-L
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Old 10-12-2005, 08:52 PM   #65
aikigirl10
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

Interesting ... according to my results i am:

moderately expressed extrovert
slightly expressed sensing personality
moderately expressed feeling personality
moderately expressed perceiving personality

i dont exactly know the point of this quiz.... maybe i should read back thru the thread...

and "plethora" had to look that word up... learn something new every day

Last edited by aikigirl10 : 10-12-2005 at 08:53 PM. Reason: add something
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Old 10-12-2005, 09:50 PM   #66
RebeccaM
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

Don't bother reading back through the thread. It's just the usual male-female silliness that crops up in the martial arts from time to time.
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Old 10-12-2005, 10:26 PM   #67
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

Quote:
Rebecca Montange wrote:
Don't bother reading back through the thread. It's just the usual male-female silliness that crops up in the martial arts from time to time.
Since I was one of those "silly" women...

Actually, Rebecca, until recently before when many more women on this site have been posting and speaking up, the male reaction like that was quite common. "Female issues" always for some reason returned to lowest common denominator for some godforsaken reason. And it was really hard to discuss an issue with someone while they intentionally insult your intelligence. These days, the most recent "female issue" threads have become, for the most part, more reasonable, less base and more intelligent.

I agree with "just passing by" this is digging up a really old thread. I mean 2002? Sometimes it is just better to start another post than dig up ancient threads. I like seeing similar topics come up in new threads since there is always a new angle to discuss and less dust to sift through.

So I agree...It's best to let sleeping dogs lie.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 10-13-2005, 11:07 AM   #68
Qatana
 
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

Regarding the Meyers-Briggs test- I took it twice, got two different ratings even thought I Told The Truth both times, Neither of my results came anywhere Near my personality.
But then again, I don't fit in anywhere...

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 10-14-2005, 09:30 PM   #69
RebeccaM
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

The middle two letters on the Myers-Briggs come up different for me depending on what kind of mood I'm in when I take the test. I guess that just means I'm on the boundary. I'm barely over the edge for J, but definitely an I.

The problem with taking things like the MBTI and other personality tests too seriously is you end up trying to put yourself and other people into neat little boxes, and that doesn't work very well. Use it as a tool for understanding yourself and others, but I'd be careful about predicting someone's behavior based on their MBTI or making any sort of decision with regards to a person based on their MBTI.
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Old 10-15-2005, 09:01 AM   #70
Richard Cardwell
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

Absolutely right. With most of those tests, especially the older ones like the MBTI, there's a no better than chance possibility that it'll predict behaviour or reactions (ie. it won't).

The online ones are all so different, and usually poorly made, that it's perfectly possible to get entirely opposite results from two tests each claiming to be the same. I've been male, female, T, P, and every damn' thing under the Sun according to them. The psychological-gender one the BBC did lately was good, and I'm not just saying that 'cos the bloke who wrote it is the one who marks my work *cough*

What I was, slightly cryptically, trying to point out was that people's attitudes, actions and reactions are down to their personalities far more than their sex. I think we (mostly) know that full well. Unless we're from Venezuela, possibly
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Old 10-15-2005, 12:48 PM   #71
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

I have looked over this sight, and I see it as a good site with good topics. Then I came to this thread. It seems some people can't get over themselves. If you got sex issues, see a therapist. We all live together, and work at it. If not then start a fire some where else. Refering to the "Silly..." which I agree with. This thread has gone no where.
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Old 10-15-2005, 04:08 PM   #72
giriasis
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

Well, "guest appearance", this thread went no where 3 years ago. Check out the dates...it's from 2002.

Oh, and it wasn't "silly" at the time.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 10-17-2005, 01:00 PM   #73
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

giriasis,

I see you wish to propagate a particular angle, or view, on the voice of woman, bravo to you. It is a voice very evident in your past post in this thread. You felt, in short, woman don't want to be stuck in the kitchen, they want a choice. A familiar call, that echos past decades ago, that told Harriet being a housewife was prison. A revolutionary voiced hailing "Free Edith Bunker." A voice that has change society, where woman today are able to look at their vagina's, bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan; running multi-million dollar companies, hold high government office, and have maids and nannies run their households. Who are finding themselves overstressed and suffering from a higher rate of heart disease. The list goes on, and in various degrees of success, and suffering. Therefore, I can see your advocation not to label this thread as "Silly." Where it hit home to me, seeing your view, was when you mentioned recently that in the past the view points of men where less intelligent then recently- in a span of 3 years. Boy, have us men evolved in 3 years!

As more and more men, are finding an smaller and smaller job market, they find themselves in role reversal. There are more and more men at home today then ever before. These men are house husbands, if you may wearing the apron strings, eating bon-bons on the couch, they are the Taxis, child-care providers, secondary incomes, and all the other things woman have traditionally done in the past that spurred the voice of a sex revolution, by woman. Men now are the one's doing the balancing act. Some that I talk to love it for a host of reasons, others hate it. Just like woman did 50 years ago.

Yes, you too said it, this is a silly thread, and men have become more intelligent ( a statement blatantly stereotypical and a gross misjudgment of men), but what you haven't mentioned, or maybe not living, is that society has changed. The next voice of change will be:
A. That of woman complaining about the men at home, Doh! Some woman pass that down from generation to generation.

B. That of men wanting change. Men tired of being stuck in the kitchen.

Basically, we have have to keep up with the times, and our arguments as well.

Have a nice day.
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Old 10-17-2005, 02:35 PM   #74
Trish Greene
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

Guest Appearance,

Thank you for your opinions! As always I value the opinions of others and enjoy reading through them. I am trying to clearly understand what it is that you are pointing out in your last post that relates to the topic of women in the dojo?

From what I have read and understood, there has always been women training in the dojo.

What I gathered in your last post is,perhaps, a sadness at the inbalance of our society, or the inability of our society to view people as people, instead of someone that has to be stuck in a "role".

With all respect,
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Old 10-17-2005, 08:58 PM   #75
giriasis
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Re: Women in the dojo...VERY politically incorrect...

Okay, so you really really want to discuss the ever evolving gender roles? I think it's great that men are now house husbands. But, is this option for men still given the same regard as women who stay in the home? No, men are demeaned called lazy and treated badly for making such a choice. They are treated badly because the role of mother is still not considered an equivalent as going out and earning the money and bringing home the bacon. If our society, at least this U.S. American one, is to change our attitudes toward the role of nuturing and raising children has to change.

The ideal in my mind would be that a woman and a man would choose based on their skills, personality what they truely want to do -- some men would prefer to stay home and raise the kids while the wife brings home the bacon; some woman would prefer to stay home and raise the kids while her husband brinds home the bacon; and even some couple prefer to do both and share in the raising of a family and in supporting one. Either one of our choices would be great and empowering in my point of view.

I think it is just as bad if men feel as demeaned as women did for centuries. I don't believe in suppressing one party in order to hold the other up. I live in South Florida and do you know how many people have not hired me in Miami-Dade county because the majority of people there prefer to speak Spanish over English? The final question in my interviews are usually, "do you speak spanish?" It's frustrating as hell, but I still persevere, learn some Spanish, and move on with my life.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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