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Old 07-09-2002, 09:56 PM   #26
Chocolateuke
Dojo: Muhu Dojo
Location: Middle of nowhere in California 14 miles from Buellton
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 238
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Red face

yeah me only uses 1 part of my brain seen? no grammer! suck at math! and loves to eat sugar!! seen?? yeah!

besides that point I think more ill stay out of this one! except to say Good post CA and Sean and Another registered ( see cant spell). And yes the "seens" are on perpose ever read Otherland? great book much scanny stuff and weird stuff.

Dallas Adolphsen
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Old 07-18-2002, 01:37 PM   #27
Paul Clark
Dojo: Yellow Springs Aikido
Location: Dayton, Ohio
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about those fighter pilots . . .

Quote:
I am a female who has spent her life in a male predominant world--the only thing that makes the fighter pilot world look feminine is a surgical residency--and I can tell you from experience that many males react emotionally and gossip with the best of them.
Colleen,

Just in case you're still reading this thread:

Well said, but be prepared to get a new nickname out of the "react emotionally and gossip with the best of them" remark if any fighter pilots besides me read this!

By the way, for anyone interested, sounds to me like Colleen would make the perfect fighter pilot wife, maybe even a good fighter pilot.

I'm also already spoken for :-)

Paul
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Old 07-23-2002, 09:22 AM   #28
Rinja Hents
Dojo: Antananarivo BFV SG
Location: Madagascar
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We have:

20 Aikidokas

2 women

ZERO PROBLEM

Rinja Hents
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Old 07-23-2002, 11:49 AM   #29
Chocolateuke
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we have almost a 50 50 ratio of men to women and zero problem!

Dallas Adolphsen
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Old 07-23-2002, 12:12 PM   #30
"Another UNReg"
IP Hash: 88eb6917
Anonymous User
mens' & women's brains, part II

The dojo I belong to has about 4 women out of about 30-40 total, and no problems that I'm aware of.

The BBC news has an interesting article today titled "Sexes handle emotions differently".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2146003.stm

Apparently women remember emotionally-charged images more vividly than men do, and women's brains process such information differently than men's brains.

I think this translates into: Women are more likely to remember the details of Freddy Kruger movies than men are??? Or have nightmares related to Freddy Kruger movies???
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Old 07-24-2002, 04:47 AM   #31
Kami
Dojo: ShinToKai DoJo of AiKiDo
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Smile PRETORIANO'S POST

Quote:
Manuel Ch. Anderson (Pretoriano) wrote:
Let them laugh, and gossip, give them some cookies, what you can do against nature?

they just bring some color, gracious dancing like movements. They dont really bother anyone? and personally ,I just try to train only men on the mat, but there are some females with an attitude, respect and care for them, thats it.
KAMI : Congratulations, Manuel! You raged aggressively against a post of mine in this Forum, where I expressed an opinion, based on history and facts, and then you came on with this conceited, arrogant and "tolerant" post. How should we consider it? A piece of intelectuality?

I hope you were kidding. If you were not, then I'd say you are quite intolerant and repressive.

IMO
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"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
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Ubaldo Alcantara
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Old 07-24-2002, 06:14 AM   #32
George S. Ledyard
 
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Atypical Experience

Well, I have to say that my own experience has been fairly atypical in that right from the very start of my training I trained with a whole group of strong women. So it is hard for me to identify with people who even think of women in the dojo as an issue.

When I started in the DC dojo under Saotome Sensei there were five yudansha who had moved there to help him open the dojo. Three of the five were women. Raso Hultgren now runs her own dojo in Missoula, MT. Megan Reisel later ran a dojo in the LA area. Sarah Bluestine still trains at the DC dojo. The two guys are out of Aikido now.

Shortly after the dojo opened we had Linda Holliday (then Hultgren) come to train for a while. She is now the Chief instructor of Aikido of Santa Cruz.

Patty (Saotome, though she wasn't married to Sensei at that point) arrived when the dojo was open under a year. She is now a 6th Dan and and one of the top instructors in the ASU.

Then I got transferred to the Seattle area by my company. Saotome Sensei told me to train with Mary Heiny Sensei (now 6th Dan) whom he had known in Japan. That dojo had a majority of women in the senior ranks. Pam Cooper, Kimberly Richardson, and Joanne Veneziano all run their own schools now and all came out of that dojo.

When I started my own place half of my most senior folks were women. I must say that I couldn't have done what I did with that dojo without their support. Lee Crawford Sensei (my Assisant chief Instructor) and Martha Levenson Sensei both run their own schools now.

Not only were none of these women "problems" in the various schools I have mentioned but rather in every case they were the mainstays of those schools both in terms of caring for those schools and in terms of modeling solid training. In the few cases where there were problems in training it was more likely to be caused by "macho" guys lacking control over their testosterone as any kind of problem with issues of the females in the dojo. There is no common thread which ties their practices together as "Women's" in fact Patty Saotome Sensei would probably bounce you around but good for suggesting such a thing.

Now one can have an obnoxious student of either sex in a dojo and it can cause problems. But it has been my experience that when men are complaining about women in the dojo it isn't the women who are the problem.

Last edited by George S. Ledyard : 07-24-2002 at 06:19 AM.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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Old 08-06-2002, 02:44 AM   #33
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Men in the dojo - are they a problem?

In all dojos where I've put my foot, there have been lots of males around. This has however not been a problem as far as I have seen.



Hanna Björk
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Old 08-06-2002, 09:37 AM   #34
SeiserL
 
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Women in the dojo, very politically incorrect. Women not in the dojo, also very politically incorrect.

IMHO, its a great opportunity for us to eneter and blend with each other in an attempt to find harmony not the continud ignorance that exist between the sexes. It isn't the gender that's the problem, its the attitude.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 08-06-2002, 12:54 PM   #35
Henry Javier
Dojo: Zenbudojo
Location: Caracas, Venezuela.
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When I started training Aikido, there was a woman in the Dojo. From my point of view, she was excellent, brave, valiant, quite attractive, and seemed to love Aikido. Since the compasion and special treatments disapeared to her (increased the intensity of training), she became sad all the time, trying to impose her point of view all the time and giving no chance to anyone to disclaim her thougths. There were moments, when she had the menstruation, that the techniques hurted her more than the usual and instead of explaining that, she changed her expression and in a very loud voice used to say, hey¡¡¡¡¡¡¡, don't do it that rough, don't you see I'm a lady¡¡¡¡, and when it was her turn, she did it the rougher she could. I think this must be an special case, so the point is that women have the same oportunities to make the goals, but they need to be understood because their different nature and physical characteistics. I`ve seen very good women doing very good Aikido, and plus the armony it represents, the beauty they add is nice to the eyes. Don't expect a woman be like a man, that's a mistake, but as aikidoka they can be as good as any man.

P.D: I don't think Aikido is a "just for men martial art". If you can feel love you can practice Aikido.
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Old 08-06-2002, 01:07 PM   #36
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
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Wink

"Don't expect a woman be like a man, that's a mistake, but as aikidoka they can be as good as any man."

or woman!!!
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Old 08-06-2002, 07:32 PM   #37
Pretoriano
 
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Triangle Crossing

Quote:
Ubaldo Alcantara (Kami) wrote:
KAMI : Congratulations, Manuel! You raged aggressively against a post of mine in this Forum, where I expressed an opinion, based on history and facts, and then you came on with this conceited, arrogant and "tolerant" post. How should we consider it? A piece of intelectuality?

I hope you were kidding. If you were not, then I'd say you are quite intolerant and repressive.

IMO
-.What, what is this? express your opinion about women politically blah, blah, blah etc.

My answer, still the same in both post.

Salute

Pretorian
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Old 08-06-2002, 08:06 PM   #38
Deb Fisher
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Maybe I'm just oggulating, but I think this whole thread sucks.

Deb Fisher
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Old 08-06-2002, 08:14 PM   #39
Deb Fisher
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Ooops, emotional reaction.

Sorry.

Deb Fisher
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Old 08-06-2002, 08:19 PM   #40
Deb Fisher
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It just really makes me emotional when SOME PEOPLE DON'T SEE ANYONE WITH MY GENDER AS A HUMAN BEING.

Deb Fisher
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Old 08-06-2002, 08:31 PM   #41
Deb Fisher
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We all know that these thread-starters would be very inappropriate:

"Well, there are black people in my dojo, and they are really funny and have great rhythm but boy their fingers are always all sticky from eating so much watermelon and I've noticed that people's stuff keeps going 'missing' now that they've joined."

or perhaps...

"You know, the Jews in my dojo are really good with money... to a fault! They are always looking for a way to get out of paying all their dues! Do any of you have trouble like this at your dojo?"

We know in our hearts that this kind of talk is very wrong, because we KNOW that a whole huge group of people cannot be penned in by divisive stereotypes. It's ineffective, it's closed-minded, it's very un-aiki.

Please, someone tell me why this "politically incorrect" thread is any different from the ugly, hateful example threads I have provided?

Please tell me why women seem to be the last group of people it's okay to hate and denegrate in public.

Deb Fisher
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Old 08-06-2002, 08:43 PM   #42
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Re: about those fighter pilots . . .

Quote:
Paul Clark wrote:
Colleen,

Just in case you're still reading this thread:

Well said, but be prepared to get a new nickname out of the "react emotionally and gossip with the best of them" remark if any fighter pilots besides me read this!

By the way, for anyone interested, sounds to me like Colleen would make the perfect fighter pilot wife, maybe even a good fighter pilot.

I'm also already spoken for :-)

Paul
went away for awhile... hey, Paul, considering my call sign already is Fingers, ever since my first squadron (the Pantons), I could consider a name change, but probably would keep forgetting to answer to it!

and I'd make a GREAT fighter pilot--- ---although I must admit my 450 hours are undoubtedly no where near yours...

reminds me of an arguement I once got into with my pilot in how to transfer control of the radar (he was a young LT, while I was a not much older Capt)...finally he had to call back to the sqdn for advice, and dumbly (or heroicly) admitted on our return to the sqdn that I had been right but he hadn't tried my advice until it was echoed by the major to whom he'd spoken. My flt cmdr, who had had to answer his call, threw a magazine at him at said 'she may not have as many hours as you do, but ALL of hers are in the B model"
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Old 08-06-2002, 08:47 PM   #43
guest1234
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PS, I meant the docs were the ones that gossiped...as for the fighter pilots, well, what goes TDY....
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Old 08-07-2002, 03:54 AM   #44
"Unregistered"
IP Hash: 43387a79
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Re: CONFIRMING...

KAMI has stated : I hope you were kidding. If you were not, then I'd say you are quite intolerant and repressive.

And PRETORIANO has answered :
Quote:
Manuel Ch. Anderson (Pretoriano) wrote:
-.What, what is this? express your opinion about women politically blah, blah, blah etc.

My answer, still the same in both post.

Salute

Pretorian
KAMI : So you were not kidding...

Oh, Well, my opinion is also the same, in both posts

Perhaps you should rethink your ways

Best
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Old 08-07-2002, 10:32 AM   #45
"UnReg"
IP Hash: 84102452
Anonymous User
Pretoriano (from Venezuela) wrote:

"Let them laugh, and gossip, give them some cookies, what you can do against nature?they just bring some color, gracious dancing like movements. They dont really bother anyone? and personally ,I just try to train only men on the mat, but there are some females with an attitude, respect and care for them, thats it."

Henry Javier (from Venezuela) wrote:

"When I started training Aikido, there was a woman in the Dojo. From my point of view, she was excellent, brave, valiant, quite attractive, and seemed to love Aikido. Since the compasion and special treatments disapeared to her (increased the intensity of training), she became sad all the time, trying to impose her point of view all the time and giving no chance to anyone to disclaim her thougths. There were moments, when she had the menstruation, that the techniques hurted her more than the usual and instead of explaining that, she changed her expression and in a very loud voice used to say, hey¡¡¡¡¡¡¡, don't do it that rough, don't you see I'm a lady¡¡¡¡, and when it was her turn, she did it the rougher she could. I think this must be an special case, so the point is that women have the same oportunities to make the goals, but they need to be understood because their different nature and physical characteistics."

These Venezuelan guys are just hopeless in their attitudes about women...does anyone else have a problem with this in their dojo? Do you think it has anything to do with the Venezualan preoccupation with beauty contests?

Irony definitely intended.
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Old 08-07-2002, 11:15 AM   #46
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
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Quote:
...does anyone else have a problem with this in their dojo?
I don't see this attitude in aikido dojos in South Florida, which has a very strong Latin American influence. Maybe it has something to do with have some very strong and well respected female aikido practitioners here. In my dojo the second highest rank is a female. NO ONE would mistake calling her a "flower."

If I remember correctly, doesn't Venezuela have no female yudansha? Please correct me if I'm wrong. If there are no strong female role models there, I wouldn't be surprised that such negative attitudes are acceptable. But I bless those women trying to learn aikido in this kind of environment. Doesn't sound very friendly. I really hope these young men's views are not the views of the majority of their dojo or their sensei's for that matter.

Last edited by giriasis : 08-07-2002 at 11:17 AM.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 08-07-2002, 08:02 PM   #47
Pretoriano
 
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I definetively like and accept women in dojo, and dont care how many hundred dans they may have, commitement, colaboration and yes I do agree with mr. Javier.

I Know that in the States woman rules, just taking the table for them, that is definively funny.

I am a modern latinoamerican, I do know others cultures as well, See, women will be totally involved in political and profesional life all around the globe in the next few decades because thats how world conditions require and demands, I dont have any problems to work in equal conditions.

But that image women been superior mounting me

is Not in my diccionary.

Pretorian

Venezuela
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Old 08-07-2002, 08:16 PM   #48
Pretoriano
 
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to ana marie Girioasis, See, in Caracas dojo for example, master Requena is warrant about well and safe enviroment as well as to provide good training conditions for female practicioners, same can be said in Venezuelan seminars id attended.

Anyways, I do recomend when a man is strong, and energy full train other man, you know to fit the size, to be balanced, for productivity sake.

Pretorian

Venezuela.
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Old 08-07-2002, 08:48 PM   #49
"UnReg"
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People seem to have missed my "Irony definitely intended" comment. I was trying to make a comment about judging a large population (of women, of Venezuelans) based on a few examples.
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Old 08-08-2002, 01:52 PM   #50
giriasis
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Okay, UnReg I did miss that, but your comment did bring the thought to mind that I remember hearing in my dojo that Venezuela (I believe- could be totally wrong) doesn't have female yudansha. That doesn't necessarily imply a good or bad thing. I would like to know the answer though and to be correct if I was wrong.

Pretorian and others, it's good to know that your sensei provides a good and safe training environment for your female aikido practitioners.

As far as wanting to train with someone your same size and ability so you can train hard, I can understand that. However, I believe a female, who has good and strong aikido skills, can fair very well against a stronger person. I'm thinking specifically of one female, sandan and originally from Peru. She is small and petite and has very power aikido because she knows how to take advantage of her size.

Women in the United States do not "rule". I think you mean that we are actually superior to our men. That is not the case from my experience. Women here seek equal treatment and don't always want their lives to be relegated to home life. However, I am also willing to work hard and support and raise a family. Most women want a choice as to the kind of life they choose. And the word "choice" is the key. Some will choose to be a mother and live a tradition life and being a mother is a wonderful thing. Others will choose just to have a career because they have no interest in raising a family. Most, will want to share the making of the income with their husbands, and share the raising and nurturing of children together. Neither one above the other, neither superior to the other.

But to bring this back to aikido, women can hold their own very well in a dojo. Out of 88 in my dojo there are about 16 of us. Most of women in the dojo are yudansha. We have several female shodans, a few nidans, a couple sandans and one godan. All these women would be insulted if they were called "flowers", "gossip mongers", and "weak". Aikido is a great equalizer. That is why I love it so much.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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