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  #26  
Old 03-19-2012, 09:59 AM
Lynn Seiser
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G: Gift, Giving, and Growth

Breathe in, the gift
Breathe out, the giving
growth

I have always heard that it was better to give and to receive. Always figured that was a rule made by the people on the receiving end of ...
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Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!

Last edited by akiy : 03-18-2012 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:39 PM   #25
SeiserL
 
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Re: G: Gift, Giving, and Growth

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Ha, ha, in your job you should know how rewarding giving understanding is.
Oh, I do.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:42 PM   #26
SeiserL
 
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Re: G: Gift, Giving, and Growth

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
We can try and explain these things to people and some people will look to educate themselves. Others, will remain stuck within their flowery and unrealistic " new-age philosophies" (soft, lazy thinking at it's worst...).
Its like the Socratic method meets Koan work. LOL

Not into new age, old age (okay - I am certainly into that), salvation, or enlightenment - just trying to train hard and be a good man.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:59 PM   #27
oisin bourke
 
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Re: G: Gift, Giving, and Growth

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
Then how many people do we know who is "unconditional" in their happiness?

Certainly not me.

So, if we can have unconditional happiness, can we also have unconditional grief and sadness?

And if so, how would we tell them a part?

And if we can tell them a part, there must be some distinction/conditions that define them as different states?

Perhaps I just unconditionally accept (and appreciate) that I have conditions.
Not me either

Still, we can all think of examples of people who thrive and are very happy under the most adverse conditions (the opposite is also the case). So, it would seem that people's capacity for happiness is, at the very least, extremely elastic: i.e it's not completely bound up in external conditions.

Regarding the query about unconditional sadness, well, if one chooses to be unhappy as a result of one's expectations not being met, this defines them as different states, does it not?

I'm not suggesting that people should be blissed out regardless of the situation, BTW. It's certainly appropriate to feel grief and sadness in the event of, say, someone close to you dying. In fact, being aware of one's own responses is probably necessary in order to understand one's response is a passing thing, i.e it's conditional.

Thanks for the conversation.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:15 PM   #28
Marc Abrams
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Re: G: Gift, Giving, and Growth

Quote:
Oisin Bourke wrote: View Post
Not me either

Still, we can all think of examples of people who thrive and are very happy under the most adverse conditions (the opposite is also the case). So, it would seem that people's capacity for happiness is, at the very least, extremely elastic: i.e it's not completely bound up in external conditions.

Regarding the query about unconditional sadness, well, if one chooses to be unhappy as a result of one's expectations not being met, this defines them as different states, does it not?

I'm not suggesting that people should be blissed out regardless of the situation, BTW. It's certainly appropriate to feel grief and sadness in the event of, say, someone close to you dying. In fact, being aware of one's own responses is probably necessary in order to understand one's response is a passing thing, i.e it's conditional.

Thanks for the conversation.
Oisin:

You are talking about an area of psychology that is getting a lot of attention lately, due to the PTSD issues with soldiers. The area is psychological resiliency. Things are always linked to external and internal events and interactions. When we can accept this reality, the conversation then shifts to what people do in response to external events to psychologically thrive. A better understanding of those CONDITIONAL variables (as opposed to the nice-feeling notion of "unconditional") allow us better able to manage our internal and external environments so that we can continue to thrive.

Hope all is well for you!

Regards,

Marc Abrams
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:38 AM   #29
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Re: G: Gift, Giving, and Growth

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Oisin:

You are talking about an area of psychology that is getting a lot of attention lately, due to the PTSD issues with soldiers. The area is psychological resiliency. Things are always linked to external and internal events and interactions. When we can accept this reality, the conversation then shifts to what people do in response to external events to psychologically thrive. A better understanding of those CONDITIONAL variables (as opposed to the nice-feeling notion of "unconditional") allow us better able to manage our internal and external environments so that we can continue to thrive.

Hope all is well for you!

Regards,

Marc Abrams
That's very interesting Mark. Do you have any links one can read?Some of the ideas I was talking about are gleaned from an Indian Jesuit Priest called Anthony De Mello who was also a practising Psychotherapist. He put a lot of these things into layman's terms. I'm sure these things are constantly evolving.

Things are good with me and my family. We are preparing to relocate back to Ireland in a few months. You really should swing by Hokkaido on one of your forays to Japan. You could stop by at the Shirataki dojo/shrine. It's a really special place. Chris Li has some photos of it on his website, I think.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:39 AM   #30
phitruong
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Re: G: Gift, Giving, and Growth

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Oisin:

You are talking about an area of psychology that is getting a lot of attention lately, due to the PTSD issues with soldiers. The area is psychological resiliency.
Marc Abrams
sorry for take this a bit off the topic. don't have any experience with psychology other than i think i a bit on the strange side.

I am kinda curious about PTSD. for US soldiers or those who were not born and raise in conflict nations, do they seem to have more problem with PTSD? what about those who have to live in the area of conflict, do they have some sort of immunity to PTSD? just curious and fascinate.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:59 AM   #31
Marc Abrams
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Re: G: Gift, Giving, and Growth

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
sorry for take this a bit off the topic. don't have any experience with psychology other than i think i a bit on the strange side.

I am kinda curious about PTSD. for US soldiers or those who were not born and raise in conflict nations, do they seem to have more problem with PTSD? what about those who have to live in the area of conflict, do they have some sort of immunity to PTSD? just curious and fascinate.
Short answer (Hey I resemble that re-marc): NO.

Interesting resource in this matter: http://www.ppc.sas.upenn.edu/armyresiliencetraining.htm

Sad thing is that we learned a lot lessons from WWI through the Vietnam war that we kind of put aside when we discovered that we needed more soldiers for combat assignments than we had available.

Children who grew up being exposed to significant violence have their own issues that I would not call "immunity."

Regards,

Marc Abrams
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:46 AM   #32
SeiserL
 
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Re: G: Gift, Giving, and Growth

Quote:
Oisin Bourke wrote: View Post
Still, we can all think of examples of people who thrive and are very happy under the most adverse conditions (the opposite is also the case). So, it would seem that people's capacity for happiness is, at the very least, extremely elastic: i.e it's not completely bound up in external conditions.
Yes agreed.

When the internal conditions/criteria congruently match the external conditions/reality, we feel one way.

When the internal conditions/criteria are incongruent and do not match the external conditions/reality, we feel another.

Perhaps its not the external or internal conditions that matter, but the condition of congruence (content free process)?

Any thoughts anyone?

Until again,
Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:51 AM   #33
SeiserL
 
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Re: G: Gift, Giving, and Growth

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
The area is psychological resiliency. Things are always linked to external and internal events and interactions. When we can accept this reality, the conversation then shifts to what people do in response to external events to psychologically thrive. A better understanding of those CONDITIONAL variables (as opposed to the nice-feeling notion of "unconditional") allow us better able to manage our internal and external environments so that we can continue to thrive.
Yes agreed.

I found a lot more resolution and resolve by accepting the external conditions and changing the internal condition to find some measure of congruence and closure.

Perhaps serenity and wisdom really does come from know what we can change and what we cannot.

I cannot always (if ever) change what is given, but I can change the meaning I give to it.

Any thoughts anyone?

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:53 AM   #34
SeiserL
 
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Re: G: Gift, Giving, and Growth

Quote:
Oisin Bourke wrote: View Post
Some of the ideas I was talking about are gleaned from an Indian Jesuit Priest called Anthony De Mello who was also a practising Psychotherapist. He put a lot of these things into layman's terms. I'm sure these things are constantly evolving.
Thanks.

I will look that resourcse/reference up.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:03 AM   #35
SeiserL
 
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Re: G: Gift, Giving, and Growth

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
I am kinda curious about PTSD. for US soldiers or those who were not born and raise in conflict nations, do they seem to have more problem with PTSD? what about those who have to live in the area of conflict, do they have some sort of immunity to PTSD? just curious and fascinate.
IMHO, while the less the difference/discrepancy between the pre-combat situation and the combat experience may be less of a jump, the jump out of combat experience to a post-combat/trauma situation/context is a different jump altogether.

Its an entirely different part of the sequence.

Often pre-trauma/combat conditions have little correlation to post-trauma effects.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:07 AM   #36
SeiserL
 
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Re: G: Gift, Giving, and Growth

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Sad thing is that we learned a lot lessons from WWI through the Vietnam war that we kind of put aside when we discovered that we needed more soldiers for combat assignments than we had available.
Yes agreed.

While we have been better prepared going in, they had no idea what to do with us coming out/home.

Now they have more resources for them coming out/home, but did not prepare them for going in.

As you said, sad.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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