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Old 06-26-2012, 11:33 PM   #1
Tenyu
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Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Shomenuchi is the most fundamental Aiki and Aiki Staff technique without exception. Its practical and theoretical refinement continue today quite distinct from Morihei's teachings. The difficulty describing the form is well understood as inherent in any complex action. Looking at current and historical film, Aikido's classical version of Shomen often ‘begins' in jodan kamae similar to some kenjutsu forms. The strike's energy is traditionally unidirectional applied noticeably angled off the vertical line of intent. This is self-evident in Morihei's own training and popular lineages including Iwama and Shingu. I'm confident the need to accommodate the staff's grounding at strike termination explains Shomen's history. The form changed immensely under my former teacher, and in turn I've significantly altered it since becoming independent. I'll describe my innovations here and leave it to the reader's responsibility to discover how I depart or retain from my previous teacher by the pertinent pages in his book.

Morihei would strike taking one step, usually from hidari hanmi to migi hanmi. Combined with the non-vertical angle, his torso equally rotated off the straight line of intent. I make no value judgements of his form, intent being primary, though I seek greatest union of form and intent. Entering through the center harmonically is the essence of Aikido and the most difficult to do, the tolerances for resistance in applying power don't exist. I start Shomen in migi hanmi, take two steps to end in migi zenkutsu dachi. This doubling of distance relative to Morihei's version allows distribution for bidirectional energy. The strike begins in chudan kamae and the reception towards jodan kamae, the first direction, occupies the overwhelming majority of the form's time and distance. Born from need to maintain perfect symmetry with the vertical line of intent, I realized a modified Transitional Inori Kamae was required. In chudan kamae both wrists are turned in positioned over the staff, during the lift the wrists turn out as the staff rotates within the hands, more in the right than the left. Transient leverage is abandoned and replaced with total acceptance of uke for security and ‘leverage' relying on non-dualism. I can easily say this is the most important advance I've made in Aikido in the past eight months.

By bringing uke totally within where no resistive safety nets exist, the energy of the reception also transformed. Intentional torsion, however non-resistive, in the first direction previously used to increase power for the strike's throw, the second direction, becomes impossible as the staff, now inside any points of superficial leverage, would require resistance in the forearms and hands. Respecting uke's inertial reactance, nage has to rely almost entirely on capacitance for the reception, reserving any overt inductance for the second direction the downward strike. The ‘traditional' resonator's rhythm of a syncopated one, an "and one" where the and is the lift and one the throw, has ‘simply' become "one" as qualities of bidirectional and unidirectional strike combine. Where inductive convexity was used in the past for reception, nearly all convexity and staff flexion are saved for downward strike as the wrists rotate back into full inversion at strike terminal. The indefinability of the strike apex, the transition between directions, will likely be the most foreign experience in the beginning. These Shomen implications for taijitsu and psychological equivalencies may already be intuitive for many experienced Aikidoists. But the staff provides refinement and accuracy of these principles well beyond taijitsu's maximum potential. Obviously the literal empty hand Shomen in paired practice is mostly uke's role, unrelated to nage waza.

I highlight importance of maintaining perfect symmetry along vertical plane of axis through the form until the very end where Morihei's ‘Shomenuchi Kamae' provides grounding. Half way through the downward direction, the staff leaves the vertical axis and lands approximately five degrees to the right, the left hand grounds the end of the staff at the precise edge of transient leverage near the front of the lower left hip flexor. Never leaving the vertical line of intent, the far end point of the staff will still finish at zero degrees on the embusen. Shomenuchi Kamae's asymptotic range is within parallel to ground and five degrees up. The concentration of energy, the activation, to the untrained eye appears to have the same support all yokomen use with planes. But Shomen finishes closer to a point, where grounding forces are balanced on opposite sides of a ‘uni-pivot ball bearing' located on the staff between the hands. Nage's extended structure and Shomenuchi Kamae's ‘reach' for parallel to ground are uniquely responsible in bending the asymptotic plane into a ground-facing asymptotic elliptical paraboloid. The slightest error from achieving perpendicular symmetry with this shape's uni-point peak can cause Shomen's concentration of energy fail to materialize. There's no other Aiki training approximating Shomen's demands. Without irony this base form is the most important and challenging singular Aikido technique.

Due to long established unbecoming and immature nature of threads and posts on Aikiweb, I won't waste time replying to such ‘feedback' or off-topic posts which should be self-evident to the reader. There' many posters who engage civilly, whom I openly share the opportunity to learn within the abilities of a public forum. I'm aware the difficult nature in conveying and understanding complex actions through the written word. I'll do my best to answer questions that arise, if one prefers seeking help through private message feel free. What I won't do is spoon feed answers I've already given in previous posts or in literature I've referenced before. I'll be able to provide more personal video in the future, of Shomen and other kata.

Although I said I should focus on the youth, I don't discriminate on age. My senior student is 65 years old, practicing Aikido over 20 years, Vietnam veteran and a very large powerful Aikidoist. With information and references I've given, anyone can begin a practice of the Shomen. I suggest using a mirror or reflective window at times to gauge vertical symmetry while mindful of not ‘interfering' with the reception nor overpowering the throw. For Aikido beginners reading this, I inform this Shomen isn't practiced by any other Aikido or martial arts school in the world.

Tenyu
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:40 PM   #2
Gerardo Torres
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Capacitance, inductance, reactance... are properties that describe behavior or electric charges and electronic components in electronic circuits. These properties are explained and bound by specific and proven mathematical formulas. These properties do not apply to any behavior involving mechanical movement or other macroscopic phenomena. Your theories, borrowed or not, would improve by using more generally descriptive and common terms rather than borrowing specific terminology from science/engineering, IMO.
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Old 06-28-2012, 05:31 PM   #3
gregstec
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Quote:
Gerardo Torres wrote: View Post
Capacitance, inductance, reactance... are properties that describe behavior or electric charges and electronic components in electronic circuits. These properties are explained and bound by specific and proven mathematical formulas. These properties do not apply to any behavior involving mechanical movement or other macroscopic phenomena. Your theories, borrowed or not, would improve by using more generally descriptive and common terms rather than borrowing specific terminology from science/engineering, IMO.
As a retired Navy Electronics Technician, I am with you on your comments, those terms really have no applicable meaning whatsoever outside the realm of electronics - just totally outside the proper context - maybe some of his other stuff is also outside the realm of proper application -

Greg
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Old 06-28-2012, 07:50 PM   #4
Tenyu
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Quote:
Gerardo Torres wrote: View Post
Capacitance, inductance, reactance... are properties that describe behavior or electric charges and electronic components in electronic circuits. These properties are explained and bound by specific and proven mathematical formulas. These properties do not apply to any behavior involving mechanical movement or other macroscopic phenomena. Your theories, borrowed or not, would improve by using more generally descriptive and common terms rather than borrowing specific terminology from science/engineering, IMO.
Your culturally inherited resistance to borrowing and relating descriptive terms from electrical energy to Aikido is noted. Your Aikido will improve after realizing newtonian reductionist thought is never holistic.
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:04 PM   #5
Michael Hackett
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Borrowing and relating descriptive terms is fine if your readers are familiar with them. I am not, and I suspect most here are equally unfamiliar so your message is being missed. More's the pity - perhaps you have something really valuable to say. All I got was strike straight down and extend. If that was your message, it could have been done with five words. If not, you failed to reach your audience.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:37 PM   #6
Gerardo Torres
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Quote:
Tenyu Hamaki wrote: View Post
Your culturally inherited resistance to borrowing and relating descriptive terms from electrical energy to Aikido is noted. Your Aikido will improve after realizing newtonian reductionist thought is never holistic.
It's not "culturally inherited resistance," it's the use of logic and adherence to scientific truth. The terminology you are borrowing is descriptive of specific phenomena in any culture.

Arms, legs, and wooden sticks do not follow the formulations or behavior of electrical reactance, inductance and capacitance, so why bother borrowing theses terms? Because they sound cool? If you were really educated in these subjects beyond their surface definitions you'd realize how easily those models fall apart when applied outside their intended domain.

Your Aikido will improve after you adopt the Scientific Method and put your theories up for peer review and testing.
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Old 06-28-2012, 11:27 PM   #7
Tenyu
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Quote:
Michael Hackett wrote: View Post
Borrowing and relating descriptive terms is fine if your readers are familiar with them. I am not, and I suspect most here are equally unfamiliar so your message is being missed. More's the pity - perhaps you have something really valuable to say. All I got was strike straight down and extend. If that was your message, it could have been done with five words. If not, you failed to reach your audience.
My intended audience doesn't include people ‘interested in learning' Shomen yet unwilling to do an internet search for a few words. Laziness or entitlement attitude are both non-starters. Your umbrage is leading others to do independent reading though.

::::

The Scientific & Technological Program* can object to ‘word blasphemy' as much as it wants, preferably in another thread.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:54 AM   #8
mrlizard123
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Quote:
Tenyu Hamaki wrote: View Post
The Scientific & Technological Program* can object to ‘word blasphemy' as much as it wants, preferably in another thread.
I am looking for the corresponding * footnote but can't see it...

It's less about "word blasphemy" and more a question of if you are using these as analagous concepts then what exactly do you mean? Since it isn't clear to someone who isn't familiar (as Michael noted) and doesn't make sense to people who are familiar with the terms (as Gerardo and Greg noted) you're suggesting that others should search and form their own analagous understanding of the terms.

Do you think that the concept you think is of great importance cannot be explained in terms that are more readily accessible in their commonly understood forms? If not, can you explain what you intend by means of your use of these terms? If not then what is the purpose of posting?

I'm somewhat perplexed as I would have thought the idea was to convey your message in as understandable a form as possible or is it meant to be a hidden truth that people should ferret out by themselves?

Essentially I'm asking - who is the intended audience?

Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:16 AM   #9
phitruong
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

is it just me that is thinking we should Tenyu and Graham together to see what that interaction turn into?

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:44 AM   #10
mrlizard123
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
is it just me that is thinking we should Tenyu and Graham together to see what that interaction turn into?

Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:31 AM   #11
Michael Hackett
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Tenryu,

Sorry I'm just a raggedy-assed old cop and I simply don't understand your writing. Looking up many of the words you used provides me with definitions that have nothing to do with what is essentially hitting something with a long stick. That left me to believe the words were being used as an analogy of some sort and I still couldn't ferret out the intended meaning. Back in the academy we were taught in our report writing classes that our purpose in writing reports was "to inform, not impress". In this thread you've done neither.

So, in my vernacular, I'm now 10-10 EOW, unless you want to 10-9 with what may be 10-36.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:52 AM   #12
gregstec
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Quote:
Michael Hackett wrote: View Post
Tenryu,

Sorry I'm just a raggedy-assed old cop and I simply don't understand your writing. Looking up many of the words you used provides me with definitions that have nothing to do with what is essentially hitting something with a long stick. That left me to believe the words were being used as an analogy of some sort and I still couldn't ferret out the intended meaning. Back in the academy we were taught in our report writing classes that our purpose in writing reports was "to inform, not impress". In this thread you've done neither.

So, in my vernacular, I'm now 10-10 EOW, unless you want to 10-9 with what may be 10-36.
I am mostly 10-7, LUNCH

Personally, I think the OP needs to 10-3 due to a probable 10-50

Greg
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:33 AM   #13
Tenyu
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Old ‘men' acting less than infants, most posters' quality of "Aiki" and Aikido on Aikiweb couldn't be poorer. I've taught ten year olds with more maturity than this. Regarding my audience, there may be so few intelligent readers left on this forum with the overwhelming junk that gets posted here. Looking on the positive side, beginners looking into Aikido will at least learn where not to train.
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Old 06-29-2012, 12:27 PM   #14
Michael Hackett
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

10-4

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:11 PM   #15
MM
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Quote:
Tenyu Hamaki wrote: View Post
Old ‘men' acting less than infants, most posters' quality of "Aiki" and Aikido on Aikiweb couldn't be poorer. I've taught ten year olds with more maturity than this. Regarding my audience, there may be so few intelligent readers left on this forum with the overwhelming junk that gets posted here. Looking on the positive side, beginners looking into Aikido will at least learn where not to train.
Far truer words of self could not have been spoken. As others have noted, your post was not intelligently written. That has no bearing upon you or your character, but rather how you have presented your ideas. One even asked, point blank, what you meant by your terminology since it didn't match any known present day usages. Instead you call people lazy and infantile. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for conversation, nor a very presentable face for beginners in aikido.

Mark
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Old 06-29-2012, 02:32 PM   #16
akiy
 
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Hi folks,

The tone I'm seeing in this thread is becoming rather personal and disrespectful.

Please keep your posts directed at moving the discussion along in a positive manner. Please direct your efforts into discussing the topic rather than the people behind the topic.

Thanks,

-- Jun

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Old 06-29-2012, 04:16 PM   #17
sakumeikan
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Quote:
Tenyu Hamaki wrote: View Post
Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Shomenuchi is the most fundamental Aiki and Aiki Staff technique without exception. Its practical and theoretical refinement continue today quite distinct from Morihei's teachings. The difficulty describing the form is well understood as inherent in any complex action. Looking at current and historical film, Aikido's classical version of Shomen often ‘begins' in jodan kamae similar to some kenjutsu forms. The strike's energy is traditionally unidirectional applied noticeably angled off the vertical line of intent. This is self-evident in Morihei's own training and popular lineages including Iwama and Shingu. I'm confident the need to accommodate the staff's grounding at strike termination explains Shomen's history. The form changed immensely under my former teacher, and in turn I've significantly altered it since becoming independent. I'll describe my innovations here and leave it to the reader's responsibility to discover how I depart or retain from my previous teacher by the pertinent pages in his book.

Morihei would strike taking one step, usually from hidari hanmi to migi hanmi. Combined with the non-vertical angle, his torso equally rotated off the straight line of intent. I make no value judgements of his form, intent being primary, though I seek greatest union of form and intent. Entering through the center harmonically is the essence of Aikido and the most difficult to do, the tolerances for resistance in applying power don't exist. I start Shomen in migi hanmi, take two steps to end in migi zenkutsu dachi. This doubling of distance relative to Morihei's version allows distribution for bidirectional energy. The strike begins in chudan kamae and the reception towards jodan kamae, the first direction, occupies the overwhelming majority of the form's time and distance. Born from need to maintain perfect symmetry with the vertical line of intent, I realized a modified Transitional Inori Kamae was required. In chudan kamae both wrists are turned in positioned over the staff, during the lift the wrists turn out as the staff rotates within the hands, more in the right than the left. Transient leverage is abandoned and replaced with total acceptance of uke for security and ‘leverage' relying on non-dualism. I can easily say this is the most important advance I've made in Aikido in the past eight months.

By bringing uke totally within where no resistive safety nets exist, the energy of the reception also transformed. Intentional torsion, however non-resistive, in the first direction previously used to increase power for the strike's throw, the second direction, becomes impossible as the staff, now inside any points of superficial leverage, would require resistance in the forearms and hands. Respecting uke's inertial reactance, nage has to rely almost entirely on capacitance for the reception, reserving any overt inductance for the second direction the downward strike. The ‘traditional' resonator's rhythm of a syncopated one, an "and one" where the and is the lift and one the throw, has ‘simply' become "one" as qualities of bidirectional and unidirectional strike combine. Where inductive convexity was used in the past for reception, nearly all convexity and staff flexion are saved for downward strike as the wrists rotate back into full inversion at strike terminal. The indefinability of the strike apex, the transition between directions, will likely be the most foreign experience in the beginning. These Shomen implications for taijitsu and psychological equivalencies may already be intuitive for many experienced Aikidoists. But the staff provides refinement and accuracy of these principles well beyond taijitsu's maximum potential. Obviously the literal empty hand Shomen in paired practice is mostly uke's role, unrelated to nage waza.

I highlight importance of maintaining perfect symmetry along vertical plane of axis through the form until the very end where Morihei's ‘Shomenuchi Kamae' provides grounding. Half way through the downward direction, the staff leaves the vertical axis and lands approximately five degrees to the right, the left hand grounds the end of the staff at the precise edge of transient leverage near the front of the lower left hip flexor. Never leaving the vertical line of intent, the far end point of the staff will still finish at zero degrees on the embusen. Shomenuchi Kamae's asymptotic range is within parallel to ground and five degrees up. The concentration of energy, the activation, to the untrained eye appears to have the same support all yokomen use with planes. But Shomen finishes closer to a point, where grounding forces are balanced on opposite sides of a ‘uni-pivot ball bearing' located on the staff between the hands. Nage's extended structure and Shomenuchi Kamae's ‘reach' for parallel to ground are uniquely responsible in bending the asymptotic plane into a ground-facing asymptotic elliptical paraboloid. The slightest error from achieving perpendicular symmetry with this shape's uni-point peak can cause Shomen's concentration of energy fail to materialize. There's no other Aiki training approximating Shomen's demands. Without irony this base form is the most important and challenging singular Aikido technique.

Due to long established unbecoming and immature nature of threads and posts on Aikiweb, I won't waste time replying to such ‘feedback' or off-topic posts which should be self-evident to the reader. There' many posters who engage civilly, whom I openly share the opportunity to learn within the abilities of a public forum. I'm aware the difficult nature in conveying and understanding complex actions through the written word. I'll do my best to answer questions that arise, if one prefers seeking help through private message feel free. What I won't do is spoon feed answers I've already given in previous posts or in literature I've referenced before. I'll be able to provide more personal video in the future, of Shomen and other kata.

Although I said I should focus on the youth, I don't discriminate on age. My senior student is 65 years old, practicing Aikido over 20 years, Vietnam veteran and a very large powerful Aikidoist. With information and references I've given, anyone can begin a practice of the Shomen. I suggest using a mirror or reflective window at times to gauge vertical symmetry while mindful of not ‘interfering' with the reception nor overpowering the throw. For Aikido beginners reading this, I inform this Shomen isn't practiced by any other Aikido or martial arts school in the world.

Tenyu
Dear Tenyu,
I will say one thing about your writings, never use one word where two hundred + can be used.
Have you ever considered the phrase K.I.S.S[Keep it simple stupid]?Is it really necessary to blind people with scientific jargon to describe a fairly simple action?Cheers, Joe.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:27 PM   #18
gregstec
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
Hi folks,

The tone I'm seeing in this thread is becoming rather personal and disrespectful.

Please keep your posts directed at moving the discussion along in a positive manner. Please direct your efforts into discussing the topic rather than the people behind the topic.

Thanks,

-- Jun
Well, Jun, the thing is there really is no topic as originality presented - it made no sense and some folks have presented questions as to the meaning of terms and were responded to with no answers and only arrogance from the OP.

I am sorry, but this guy is one of the below:

1. A young immature individual with delusions of a being a master, or
2. A troll, or
3. Both 1 and 2.

I am leaning towards three myself - so please feel free to give me a time out for speaking the truth.

Greg

Last edited by gregstec : 06-29-2012 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:16 PM   #19
Mark Freeman
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Quote:
Tenyu Hamaki wrote: View Post
Your culturally inherited resistance to borrowing and relating descriptive terms from electrical energy to Aikido is noted. Your Aikido will improve after realizing newtonian reductionist thought is never holistic.
Hi Tenyu,

How?

regards,

Mark
p.s. I could have made the question much longer, but felt that the short version would suffice.

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:27 PM   #20
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

What is "transient leverage?" I've googled it and found 3 business references followed by this thread.
I also looked up inori kamae and the best I could find was a reference to being "forward jumanji"...so perhaps something like migi hanmi with forearms crossed?
Can you describe what the non-vertical angle is?
I look forward to your videos.
Quote:
For Aikido beginners reading this, I inform this Shomen isn't practiced by any other Aikido or martial arts school in the world.
That you know of, right? Kind of difficult to know this kind of thing being that there are so many and, I presume, it's impossible to observe every one of them.
Take care,
Matt

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Old 06-30-2012, 05:25 PM   #21
Anthony Loeppert
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Quote:
Tenyu Hamaki wrote: View Post
My intended audience doesn't include people ‘interested in learning' Shomen yet unwilling to do an internet search for a few words. Laziness or entitlement attitude are both non-starters. Your umbrage is leading others to do independent reading though.
The laziness can go both ways. You pretend to be some sort of academic, write in pseudo scientific lingo, yet have no idea how to communicate a serious idea.

First, when you make up your own jargon, which coincides with established meanings, until it has caught on to the mainstream, search engines are not going to be terribly useful for this. At the very minimum, you should supply some key words to use when directing people to search, or better yet simply provide some direct hyperlinks...

Second, you do yourself no service making analogies if the borrowed topic isn't universally understood.

Consider theses answers in the form of a question:
Does a bear shit in the woods?
Does a diode allow current to flow one way?

Yes and Yes, though one is easier on the uninformed reader, and as an author you should take this into account.

Also, be sure, in the hand written version of your manifesto, make it LEGIBLE!

Regards,
Anthony

Last edited by Anthony Loeppert : 06-30-2012 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 06-30-2012, 07:54 PM   #22
Marc Abrams
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

To best understand the person who started this thread, one should read this thread:

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...ighlight=tenyu

Very pertinent in this thread is post #20 from Tom Reid Sensei. After people have acquainted themselves (or re-acquainted ) with this thread, nothing else needs to be said. Kind of speaks for itself..... What did they say about fantasy and reality again?.....

Marc Abrams
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Old 06-30-2012, 08:16 PM   #23
hughrbeyer
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Quote:
Michael Hackett wrote: View Post
Tenryu,

Sorry I'm just a raggedy-assed old cop and I simply don't understand your writing. Looking up many of the words you used provides me with definitions that have nothing to do with what is essentially hitting something with a long stick.
My wife to me: "You know, I've heard about people spitting coffee all over their keyboard, but I've never actually seen it."
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:27 PM   #24
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
England
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Quote:
Rich Hobbs wrote: View Post
Nah. Spiritually speaking I just cut through the universe and whoever is in the path.....Sayonara. (That includes ghosts )

Peace.G.
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:05 PM   #25
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
Location: Oceanside, California
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Re: Shomenuchi Nage waza in Refinement

Sorry Hugh - hope the wife found the episode amusing.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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