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Old 03-04-2012, 12:57 AM   #151
Chris Li
 
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
I bet you have. Most would be too polite to say so unless you are actually studying buddhism with them.

Now, more importantly, did you understand and apply what you translated? When you sobered up of course.

It's good that you helped them communicate with the world, very kind of you. I bet you can talkall about it. You could even relate it and discuss and debate it.
Well...you're assuming that I sobered up...

Anyway, my point was that if you know anything at all about buddhism in Japan, you know that quite a lot of it is scholarly and intellectual. In short,

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
To intellectualize Buddhism is a western trait my friend.
is not only a vast oversimplification of one sect of buddhism, it's just incorrect.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
No different to Ki. Can you use it? Like the calm mind, can you apply it without fail in Aikido.

Can you 'stand in the void'? Until then feel free to talk about, nothing wrong with that but it's not doing it, it's not knowing. It's intellectualizing about.

There's so many things I don't know that I'm happy.

Peace.G.
I don't get your point, you want to give you my own opinion of what I can do? I don't think that I'm going to do that - but I can and will explain what Ueshiba said about standing in the void at some point, and if you can do it first than I'll buy you lunch next time you're in Hawaii.

OTOH, if you can't explain it then you can't, in my book, really say that you're doing it, because you don't, therefore, know what you're doing.

Best,

Chris

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Old 03-04-2012, 01:05 AM   #152
graham christian
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Graham wrote

The basic definition of trolling in my opinion, which I am beginning to suspect is a big part of you modus operendi.
That comment was not designed for you. I don't know what trolling is but I suspect it's more to do with hounding and being negative to.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:33 AM   #153
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

the fact that comments are posted on a forum makes any comment open for public consumption or comment. PM if you don't want responses.

Here is a good site for the definitions and insights on trolling. http://www.urban75.com/Mag/troll.html

The fact that you admit that you will allow people to go down a path or guide them intentionally the wrong way...give them enough rope, informs me that you are not really interested in having an honest and up front conversation and are more interested in the game of argument and play. You used the word mischief I believe. Not only trolling, but is demonstrates competition and the competitive mind in its finest hour.

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Old 03-04-2012, 01:57 AM   #154
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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Well...you're assuming that I sobered up...

Anyway, my point was that if you know anything at all about buddhism in Japan, you know that quite a lot of it is scholarly and intellectual. In short,

is not only a vast oversimplification of one sect of buddhism, it's just incorrect.

I don't get your point, you want to give you my own opinion of what I can do? I don't think that I'm going to do that - but I can and will explain what Ueshiba said about standing in the void at some point, and if you can do it first than I'll buy you lunch next time you're in Hawaii.

OTOH, if you can't explain it then you can't, in my book, really say that you're doing it, because you don't, therefore, know what you're doing.

Best,

Chris
Well Chris, that is my point and thus where we differ. I like giving my own personal view rather than someone elses, someones quotes, all kinds of data. That's me. I like to base my views on what I experience or can do or even my interpretation of read items. Yes, all mine. Where mine is the same as anothers then I may quote that other.

There are many here who do the same and rarely if ever quote this person or that.

The problem is quite the opposite to your last sentence in as much as I can explain it as can I explain other things I say I can do but it's the explanation you seem to have the trouble with.

This reply of yours shows another difference also in that when it comes to study I am quite different to you too and your methods.

In fact I am proud to say that I am a translator like you. So we have one thing in common although I don't translate one language into another I translate philosophic and spiritual principles and truths into modern language as used by the general public. Thus I translate such things as void and Ki and kokyu into things students can grasp and apply, all done in modern English.

Having spent many years studying and translating and teaching in such a fashion I can relate many things said in Aikido to each other, fitting together nicely like pieces of a puzzle. Thus I can relate the basics of Kotodama to the five spirits(minds) of budo and in turn relate them to space and energy and time etc. and in turn relate them to void, Ki, hara, kokyu, etc. Translation, explanation, application.

My way. A different way.

So if I continually ask you if you can do it or for your own opinion whilst you continually demand references and quotes and original chinese this and that then we obviously are asking for the wrong things from each other.

But as far as I am concerned I can only talk for me so you will only get my opinion, not someone elses, not Musashis, not the Dalai lamas, or else my understanding of such as Ueshibas or Toheis.

I'm beginning to see it's my approach that you don't get, rather than anything else. My approach to study, to teaching, to Aikido itself. I approach communication on here no different to talking to Bill down the local. In life as such people don't ask for references and who said, they merely either say, woah, you lost me there, or some such and then I find a frame of reference they are used to in which to produce mutual understanding. Normal conversation.

It's also how I teach. Just like normal conversation.

I treat kokyu like it's normal, I treat zanshin like it's normal, like it's not some great mystical thing and it's something they do every day. It's never a matter of a person doesn't know or can't do it's a matter of seeing when they do and then they can see for themselves when they don't and wonder why?

So sorry to burst your bubble but I would say you use kokyu in everyday life and standing in the void, its all a matter of to what degree and recognising it.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:16 AM   #155
graham christian
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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the fact that comments are posted on a forum makes any comment open for public consumption or comment. PM if you don't want responses.

Here is a good site for the definitions and insights on trolling. http://www.urban75.com/Mag/troll.html

The fact that you admit that you will allow people to go down a path or guide them intentionally the wrong way...give them enough rope, informs me that you are not really interested in having an honest and up front conversation and are more interested in the game of argument and play. You used the word mischief I believe. Not only trolling, but is demonstrates competition and the competitive mind in its finest hour.
There you go again mistranslating, misunderstanding. If I believe someone has a negative purpose towards me I let them carry on. They want me to get into a fight or war. No, sorry, carry on for you are only fighting yourself and will eventually get egg on your face.

Those who want argument thus want that game. Carry on.

Mischief yes, but not the type those who want to continually go against use, not the type to intentionally wind up. Insulting and belittling under the guise of integrity to me is a mischievous game. So you wanna play, ok I can play simply by not responding in kind.

No different to Aikido. No different to the mischief seen in O'Senseis eyes as he plays with the 'opponent' When they are ready to have a grown up cionversation withou negative insults and put downs feel free.

It is not my job to stop them being so negative and thus I give them the space and time they wan't, I give them more rope. For in the end they are only hanging themselves.

Not seeing this is why people still see O'Sensei in action as him competing and winning despite him saying differently. Alas.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-04-2012, 03:14 AM   #156
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

okay, so maybe it is not intentional, but it is difficult to communicate with your reasoning and inconsistent use of logic and definitions that seem to change with convienence to fit your view of the world.

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Old 03-04-2012, 07:34 AM   #157
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

Quote:
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In fact I am proud to say that I am a translator like you. So we have one thing in common although I don't translate one language into another I translate philosophic and spiritual principles and truths into modern language as used by the general public. Thus I translate such things as void and Ki and kokyu into things students can grasp and apply, all done in modern English.

Having spent many years studying and translating and teaching in such a fashion I can relate many things said in Aikido to each other, fitting together nicely like pieces of a puzzle. Thus I can relate the basics of Kotodama to the five spirits(minds) of budo and in turn relate them to space and energy and time etc. and in turn relate them to void, Ki, hara, kokyu, etc. Translation, explanation, application.

My way. A different way.
You are not a translator, you are a cult guru.

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Old 03-04-2012, 10:12 AM   #158
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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Well Chris, that is my point and thus where we differ. I like giving my own personal view rather than someone elses, someones quotes, all kinds of data. That's me. I like to base my views on what I experience or can do or even my interpretation of read items. Yes, all mine. Where mine is the same as anothers then I may quote that other.
OK, so give us your own personal view of what "standing in the void" means. Since:

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
In fact I am proud to say that I am a translator like you. So we have one thing in common although I don't translate one language into another I translate philosophic and spiritual principles and truths into modern language as used by the general public. Thus I translate such things as void and Ki and kokyu into things students can grasp and apply, all done in modern English.
It should be easy for everybody to understand what you're talking about.

My own personal view, after more than 30 years of study and training in Japanese buddhism in both English and Japanese, is that it is just incorrect that the intellectualization of Buddhism is a western misconception of what really happens in Japan. As in:

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
To intellectualize Buddhism is a western trait my friend..
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
So sorry to burst your bubble but I would say you use kokyu in everyday life and standing in the void, its all a matter of to what degree and recognising it.

Peace.G.
No bubbles bursting around here - and I haven't seen any explanations, in modern English or any other.

Best,

Chris

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Old 03-04-2012, 11:11 AM   #159
graham christian
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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OK, so give us your own personal view of what "standing in the void" means. Since:

It should be easy for everybody to understand what you're talking about.

My own personal view, after more than 30 years of study and training in Japanese buddhism in both English and Japanese, is that it is just incorrect that the intellectualization of Buddhism is a western misconception of what really happens in Japan. As in:

No bubbles bursting around here - and I haven't seen any explanations, in modern English or any other.

Best,

Chris
O.K. Sir. I'll Start with religion. First I'll give my view on it itself. Originally things have a basic purpose and people and groups emerge following this purpose or responsibility. Health, the field of body health ends up with a subject about it and practitioners responsible for advising, helping, and curing problems in that area. Can be called doctors, etc. In ancient chinese I believe there was even a scale of such things where at the bottom was the animal doctor, then on to physical doctor and on up to sage.

Now, back to religion. Originally it was the subject of spiritual well being, spiritual health. Later down the track we come across another field called mental health too. Three different health fields. The mental being more a modern one as spiritual would always address that before.

The spiritual fields thus dealt with universal principles including god or the ultimate creative force.

Now, within this field you get many 'following' different religions. Yet a religion gives rules which are meant to be spiritual guidlines to adhere to for your spiritual well being. Disciples follow to the letter. They study and follow. Thus we have another scale which goes right down to someone following a religion who actually only goes to church once a year but doesn't actually follow much of the principles but still considers himself religious. A scale once again.

Actually there is the subject of the religion and there is the doing, the practice, the following of such principles extant in it. Two different things. So many can study for years and talk all about it and say they follow it but they are merely students of the subject. Another part of the scale.This is what I mean by intellectualizing but not doing.

Now Buddhism, in all of it's forms is a path of actions designed to increase spiritual awareness and lead to enlightenment. It deals with spiritual, universal principles to come to terms with and through which a person transcends the duality logic of the mind, the same logic which the intellect uses. The same logic based on fear that ego uses. In this way it could be said to be ante intellect yet it's not ante it is transcendental.

Now culturally the people may follow in respect to rituals and rites etc. and even may follow in terms of studying the history etc.(the subject of) and still be called Buddhists or lay buddhists or whatever label, but thet's not the same as actual practicer of. Add to that there would be levels of practicer of as well.

So we come to the scene where in all religions we may be lucky enough to come across someone who has learned and transcended and walks the talk and we would know, we would say to ourselves even, that we have met a true holy man.

Such is my condensed view on that.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:24 AM   #160
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
O.K. Sir. I'll Start with religion. First I'll give my view on it itself. Originally things have a basic purpose and people and groups emerge following this purpose or responsibility. Health, the field of body health ends up with a subject about it and practitioners responsible for advising, helping, and curing problems in that area. Can be called doctors, etc. In ancient chinese I believe there was even a scale of such things where at the bottom was the animal doctor, then on to physical doctor and on up to sage.

Now, back to religion. Originally it was the subject of spiritual well being, spiritual health. Later down the track we come across another field called mental health too. Three different health fields. The mental being more a modern one as spiritual would always address that before.

The spiritual fields thus dealt with universal principles including god or the ultimate creative force.

Now, within this field you get many 'following' different religions. Yet a religion gives rules which are meant to be spiritual guidlines to adhere to for your spiritual well being. Disciples follow to the letter. They study and follow. Thus we have another scale which goes right down to someone following a religion who actually only goes to church once a year but doesn't actually follow much of the principles but still considers himself religious. A scale once again.

Actually there is the subject of the religion and there is the doing, the practice, the following of such principles extant in it. Two different things. So many can study for years and talk all about it and say they follow it but they are merely students of the subject. Another part of the scale.This is what I mean by intellectualizing but not doing.

Now Buddhism, in all of it's forms is a path of actions designed to increase spiritual awareness and lead to enlightenment. It deals with spiritual, universal principles to come to terms with and through which a person transcends the duality logic of the mind, the same logic which the intellect uses. The same logic based on fear that ego uses. In this way it could be said to be ante intellect yet it's not ante it is transcendental.

Now culturally the people may follow in respect to rituals and rites etc. and even may follow in terms of studying the history etc.(the subject of) and still be called Buddhists or lay buddhists or whatever label, but thet's not the same as actual practicer of. Add to that there would be levels of practicer of as well.

So we come to the scene where in all religions we may be lucky enough to come across someone who has learned and transcended and walks the talk and we would know, we would say to ourselves even, that we have met a true holy man.

Such is my condensed view on that.

Peace.G.
In not so many words - you yourself decide what buddhism is, and that those who don't practice as you do are not buddhists.

Further, you ignore that many of those excluded buddhists are actually Japanese in Japan, since that would prove your original statement:

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
To intellectualize Buddhism is a western trait my friend.
is, in fact, incorrect.

Glad we got that clarified.

Best,

Chris

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Old 03-04-2012, 11:46 AM   #161
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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In not so many words - you yourself decide what buddhism is, and that those who don't practice as you do are not buddhists.

Further, you ignore that many of those excluded buddhists are actually Japanese in Japan, since that would prove your original statement:

is, in fact, incorrect.

Glad we got that clarified.

Best,

Chris
Chris, please. I don't decide those who don't do as me are not thank you. I took the trouble to make a whole inclusive scale.

Saying intellectualism is a western trait is incorrect from one perspective yes. I'm sure there are many in Japan or anywhere else for that matter. That just makes them intellectual Buddhists or Buddhists still trapped in duality to a larger degree.

No more on that subject from me now, on this thread, been a pleasure explaining my view.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:50 AM   #162
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

When boxed into a corner by one's own lack of real knowledge, Graham will not admit a lack of knowledge, despite having presented himself as being knowledgeable, leaves by saying "that is my opinion, no more on that subject......" This pattern continues unabated.... No surprise why people keep on calling him to task.

Marc Abrams

ps- Chris and Kevin: Thanks for boxing him into a corner time and time again.....
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:03 PM   #163
graham christian
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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When boxed into a corner by one's own lack of real knowledge, Graham will not admit a lack of knowledge, despite having presented himself as being knowledgeable, leaves by saying "that is my opinion, no more on that subject......" This pattern continues unabated.... No surprise why people keep on calling him to task.

Marc Abrams

ps- Chris and Kevin: Thanks for boxing him into a corner time and time again.....
It's called integrity.

Now when someone appears, not to add to the discussion in any constructive way, now what is that called?

Peace.G.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:06 PM   #164
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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It's called integrity.
No, it's called honesty. Integrity is another thing.

As an example:

Quote:
The first point to understand about the difference between honesty and integrity is that a person may be entirely honest without ever engaging in the hard work of discernment that integrity requires.; she may tell us quite truthfully what she believes without ever taking the time to figure out whether what she believes is good and right and true. The problem may be as simple as someone's foolishly saying something that hurts a friend's feelings; a few moments of thought would have revealed the1ikelihood of the hurt and the lack of necessity for the comment. Or the problem may be more complex, as when a man who was raised from birth in a society that preaches racism states his belief in one race's inferiority as a fact, without ever really considering that perhaps this deeply held view is wrong. Certainly the racist is being honest-he is telling us what he actually thinks- but his honesty does not add up to integrity.
You probably are honest.... maybe you say what you believe is good, right and true, but your lack of connection to a concern with truth, your indifference to how things really are puts you far far away from integrity.

Last edited by Demetrio Cereijo : 03-04-2012 at 01:08 PM.

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Old 03-04-2012, 01:19 PM   #165
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

NO NOW, All please lets get back to the topic thread, in hand and stop the arguing.

Many thank`s,

Andy B
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:29 PM   #166
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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NO NOW, All please lets get back to the topic thread, in hand and stop the arguing.
Why?

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Old 03-04-2012, 02:17 PM   #167
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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Why?
Because it's a matter of integrity. As I said earlier. Persisting off topic.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:21 PM   #168
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

There is no off topic, the past is an illusion, future doesn't exist... the thread is in the now as it is.

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Old 03-04-2012, 02:26 PM   #169
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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There is no off topic, the past is an illusion, future doesn't exist... the thread is in the now as it is.
The Topic is in the present, you are not. Off topic isn't.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:41 PM   #170
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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The Topic is in the present, you are not. Off topic isn't.
Still carrying it?

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Old 03-04-2012, 02:43 PM   #171
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

Carrying what?? ha, ha.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:48 PM   #172
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

By the way Demetrio, I used to walk around covered with cream and strwaberry's and sponge, do you know why?
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Old 03-04-2012, 03:05 PM   #173
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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By the way Demetrio, I used to walk around covered with cream and strwaberry's and sponge, do you know why?
Was it a competitive dessert themed costume party?

"Our fears don't stop death… they stop life."
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Old 03-04-2012, 03:08 PM   #174
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

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Was it a competitive dessert themed costume party?
Close but no cigar. You see that's where I learned how to deal with the competitive mind.

It was so hard living in the gateau.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-04-2012, 03:29 PM   #175
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Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

Le gâteau est un mensonge.

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