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Old 01-26-2012, 04:21 AM   #1
robin_jet_alt
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I don't know

I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.
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Old 01-26-2012, 04:42 AM   #2
Mark Freeman
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Re: I don't know

Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote: View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.
Hi Robin,

interesting start to a thread (I don't think it will hit the numbers that the undying "Aikido does not work etc" thread has achieved ).

However, what you declare is "beginners mind" - we would all benefit from aspiring to this state.

So much here is written from the point of 'knowing' (or claiming to know).

What is it though, that you do not know? What is it that you do not understand? And how do you know that you don't know? Just a few curious questions.

enjoy your training,

regards,

Mark (who sometimes has more questions than answers)

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:02 AM   #3
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: I don't know

I know a little and have a lot to learn. I love being in the question.

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Old 01-26-2012, 06:49 AM   #4
lbb
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Re: I don't know

Robin, I wish you were here so you could come by the dojo and we could not-know and not-understand together, and then I could take you out to the People's Pint for one (or more) of our fine local beers. Truly, I like the way you think.

Good training to ya.
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:14 AM   #5
Mark Mueller
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Re: I don't know

Reminds me of something Saotome Sensei says....."I know one thing, I know nothing".
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:44 AM   #6
David Orange
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Re: I don't know

Quote:
Mark Mueller wrote: View Post
Reminds me of something Saotome Sensei says....."I know one thing, I know nothing".
Peter Ralston (Principles of Effortless Power) says that not knowing is where the most important things happen.

I'll try to find the exact quote. He says i repeatedly, I believe (but I don't know...).

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:14 AM   #7
grondahl
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Re: I don't know

How very Socrates of you.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:38 AM   #8
Mark Uttech
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Re: I don't know

Beginner's Mind is the best thing to keep. In time you will be surprised how hard it is to keep!

- Right combination works wonders -
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:23 PM   #9
DonMagee
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Re: I don't know

I feel the opposite problem. I know exactly what I'm trying to do, I just can't do it :-)

They say "No, you have to do it like this"

I say "I know! I'm trying!"

I enjoy the struggle.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:30 PM   #10
mathewjgano
 
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Re: I don't know

Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote: View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.
I bet I don't know more than you do!
Gambatte!
Take care,
Matt

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:37 PM   #11
gates
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Re: I don't know

Getting it. Got it. Lost it. Repeat.

Chasing rainbows.
A dog catching it's tail.
Seeing deeper and deeper into outer space with bigger and better telescopes.
It runs away from us BECAUSE we are chasing it.

As Don said, enjoy the struggle, the destination is always running away from us anyway. I feel a little sorry for those who think, "know" they have got there. Must be boring with nowhere to go !

Enjoy the journey
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:13 PM   #12
David Orange
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Re: I don't know

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
How very Socrates of you.
The body is the sock of ki.

That much, I do know.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:16 AM   #13
philipsmith
Dojo: Ren Shin Kan
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Re: I don't know

Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote: View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.
The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know. -- Socrates

The more you know, the less you understand. -- Lao-Tse

The more you learn, the more you know. The more you know, the more you forget. The more you forget, the less you know. So why bother to learn? -- George Bernard Shaw

or definitively Red Hot Chilli Peppers in Snow (hey oh)
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:18 AM   #14
robin_jet_alt
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Re: I don't know

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
Hi Robin,

interesting start to a thread (I don't think it will hit the numbers that the undying "Aikido does not work etc" thread has achieved ).

However, what you declare is "beginners mind" - we would all benefit from aspiring to this state.

So much here is written from the point of 'knowing' (or claiming to know).

What is it though, that you do not know? What is it that you do not understand? And how do you know that you don't know? Just a few curious questions.

enjoy your training,

regards,

Mark (who sometimes has more questions than answers)
Good questions. I don't know about IS for example. I've never met Dan etc. and I have no way to judge its value. Of course, that is just an example, and there are plenty of other things that I don't know or understand. I'm sure I don't know what half of them are yet.

The post was in response to a lot of the discourse in which many people claim that their way is best or that others don't understand. I thought I should just come out with it and say that, "no, I don't understand". There is nothing wrong with that, but I am enjoying my training and hopefully getting something out of it.

That pint sounds good, Mary. If I am ever up your way, let's get one.
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:00 AM   #15
Mark Freeman
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Re: I don't know

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
The body is the sock of ki.
That much, I do know.
David, you and your metaphors, cats, trees, socks, I don't know

What sort of sock? ankle? knee high? wool, cotton, nylon? hand knitted, machine made? Does this mean that ki is a foot? or is ki afoot? What happens if you put the sock through the wash too many times? Can the ki leak out and stain things?

Sockofki - a little known russian aikidoka?

regards,

Mark
p.s. This much I know - I don't take things seriously enough

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:12 AM   #16
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
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Re: I don't know

i don't know what i don't know. what i know none of which nonsense knowledge knows not never-mind no how.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:32 AM   #17
Jonathan
Dojo: North Winnipeg Aikikai
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Re: I don't know

It seems to me that if, after, say, twenty years of training or so, you are still saying "I don't know anything" you are either very stupid or guilty of false modesty.

"Iron sharpens iron; so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend."
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:27 PM   #18
Shadowfax
 
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Re: I don't know

"He who knows not and knows not he knows not: he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not: he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows: he is asleep - wake him.
He who knows and knows he knows: he is wise - follow him."
~attributed to various authors...
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:45 PM   #19
Rob Watson
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Re: I don't know

Follow your nose ... it always knows!
Attributed to some knowitall Toucan

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:55 PM   #20
Keith Larman
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Re: I don't know

Quote:
Jonathan Hay wrote: View Post
It seems to me that if, after, say, twenty years of training or so, you are still saying "I don't know anything" you are either very stupid or guilty of false modesty.
Or maybe you just need to find a better place to train...

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Old 01-27-2012, 03:26 PM   #21
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: I don't know

Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote: View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.
My favorite quote from Ushiro Kenji Sensei in his latest book
Quote:
"What you know is the enemy of learning."

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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Old 01-27-2012, 03:35 PM   #22
David Orange
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Re: I don't know

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
David, you and your metaphors, cats, trees, socks, I don't know
Gotta prove I'm a writer somehow...

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
What sort of sock? ankle? knee high? wool, cotton, nylon? hand knitted, machine made? Does this mean that ki is a foot? or is ki afoot? What happens if you put the sock through the wash too many times? Can the ki leak out and stain things?
It's a body sock.

Peace.

David

(actually, look for my upcoming thread on facial expression and development of IS/Aiki! I explain the sock idea completely in that!)

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-28-2012, 09:43 PM   #23
Stephen Fasen
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Grr! Re: I don't know

1st dan: I don't know, but I know I can know
2nd dan: I don't know, but I know I know more than you don't know.
3rd dan: I don't know why you don't know what I know.
4th dan: I don't know if I am supposed to know as much as I don't know.
5th dan: I don't know if I ever will know.
6th dan: I don't know, but I hope you don't know I don't know.
7th dan: I don't know that I will never know what I don't know.
8th dan: I don't know I don't know, but I don't know if that is important.
9th dan: I don't know if I ever knew that what I don't know is to be known.
Dead
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:36 PM   #24
robin_jet_alt
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Re: I don't know

Quote:
Stephen Fasen wrote: View Post
1st dan: I don't know, but I know I can know
2nd dan: I don't know, but I know I know more than you don't know.
3rd dan: I don't know why you don't know what I know.
4th dan: I don't know if I am supposed to know as much as I don't know.
5th dan: I don't know if I ever will know.
6th dan: I don't know, but I hope you don't know I don't know.
7th dan: I don't know that I will never know what I don't know.
8th dan: I don't know I don't know, but I don't know if that is important.
9th dan: I don't know if I ever knew that what I don't know is to be known.
Dead
But how do you know that?
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Old 01-29-2012, 05:31 AM   #25
Mark Freeman
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Re: I don't know

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
(actually, look for my upcoming thread on facial expression and development of IS/Aiki! I explain the sock idea completely in that!)
Hi David

I look forward to it,

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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