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Old 02-01-2012, 07:59 AM   #26
Amir Krause
Dojo: Shirokan Dojo / Tel Aviv Israel
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 643
Israel
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Re: testing (skill) aikido

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
Thanks Alec. I would say that I agree with everything you said here. For the thread, which I probably wasn't descriptive enough in my OP, I was hoping to get some discussion of what sort of pressure testing went on in the old days, not so much about what we think it should be today. Though that's actually worked out great. If the people that are considered to have gotten "it" from O'sensei and most of the ones who are more highly regarded in a general budo sense came from this period, what were they doing differently? There is little evidence to support the idea that their mode of practice was any different than ours today, repetition of techniques. So what was it? Was it feeling O'sensei regularly? I doubt that they understood him any better. Was it that combined with a progression of physicality or aliveness in the training? The way aikido is practiced is often dogged on both the external and internal fronts, but in both cases the "old days" seem to be the bright spot in aikido history and this thread was my round about way of digging into that.
As I wrote in many times, I practice Korindo Aikido, if you are looking to the ways Ueshiba and his students practiced - I would have no idea, Korindo line is different and the association to Ueshiba is not as of student to teacher.
At least the way, ab ove is the way Sensei teaches, I visited Japan to practice for a very short while. Each teacher there had a differnt approach, but all had some forms of non-competitive Randori/Kyoshu, and all insisted on Tori having the responsibility for harmoney and the technique working.

Quote:
Alec Corper wrote: View Post
I like Amir's posts. This style of practice is very similar to the external aspects of sparring in Chinese boxing all the way from light tap to out cold or busted ribs. I probably missed the point of the OP, so I went back and read it again. My understanding of pressure testing is more akin to what Dan does and also what is done in Chen CMA. Before you get into any kind of combat testing you first need to lock in the internal structure. I have fought with many good fighters in the past who now I would consider to be lacking in internal skill (Aiki or Jin, names not so important). They could still kick ass and take names so to speak but I thought we were seeking something else. To me all the pressure testing of combat is only useful after the internals are mastered or you lock in bad habits which will get you a long way but eventually stall. Without those kinds of practice most of us would learn more about combat from the street than from the dojo.
In many ways I feel this diverages from the original question. But since you opened it:

As I wrote once in some other post, I have not idea if Korindo has or does not have IP at its core embedded in the practice. We do not use the terms you do, yet many of your terms come from CMA, ours from the M.A. defining Korindo. We practice differently, yet, some of your descriptions, seem to resonate well with the way I feel some of the things (talking about wave motions, generation of power when static and under pressure, etc.).
Korindo differs from other Aikido styles in the Tai-Sabaki moves that is practiced in a solitary form each practice, and should teach the body to move "Korindo way" (the "korindo" name means something like the light at the end of the tunnel and reflects a concept of movement starting from the Hara, we talk of imagining balls\giroscopes turninig inside and generating each move).
Yet, the approach I learned for power generation is rather mechanic in nature, utilizing simple understanding of body movement and posture, somtime using imagination of images as a trigger to help at first, but not imagining Ki or anything like it, and I never heard anyone call this IP or Aiki, it is just our Tai-Sabaki and the way to do the techniques must take advantage of it.

Amir
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:00 AM   #27
Alec Corper
 
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Dojo: Itten Suginami Dojo, Nunspeet
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Join Date: Apr 2003
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Netherlands
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Re: testing (skill) aikido

Hello Jason,
I'm not sure that the people who got it from O Sensei "got it". I think that is part of the thrust of many dialogues occurring now. People are asking if what they have received and practice and teach is actually what Ueshiba himself was doing, hence the reported statement, "that is not my Aikido!". The fact that many of the original Kobukan were already trained but could be handled so easily by Ueshiba, the fact that Sagawa purportedly in his 90's handled attacks from his chair, the idea of "transparent Power' and "mountain echo", these are the things I am pursuing. Maybe because I hit 60 this year and I am aware that strength and speed fails, so does technique, I am not looking to win any competitions. I know how to defend myself and have, I cross-train in two other arts, but still i think that Aiki do holds out a possibility that is beyond the skill sets of all forms of jutsu, however accomplished.

If your temper rises withdraw your hand, if your hand rises withdraw your temper.
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