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Old 01-15-2012, 05:30 AM   #1
graham christian
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Biblical martial art

Just something interesting to share. Enjoy.

http://youtu.be/fV8S1jw9VN4.

G.
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Old 01-15-2012, 06:44 AM   #2
Dave de Vos
 
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Re: Biblical martial art

Interesting indeed. I looked up some other clips of Abir. Striking similarities with aikido and even more with some chinese martial arts, I'd say.

Then again, I did a quick background check on Yehoshua Sofer and Abir and it seems that there is considerable doubt concerning the validity of his claims about the unbroken tradition of his art since biblical times. From a wikipedia article: Yehoshua Sofer has been studying eastern martial arts since 1963. He holds (high) dan rankings and he even had a dojo. Only in 2002 did he start teaching his "biblical" art.
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Old 01-15-2012, 07:50 AM   #3
Dave de Vos
 
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Re: Biblical martial art

Then again, in this and other places it is not denied that Yehoshua Sofer holds 7th dan in Kuk Sool Won and Hap Ki Do, while maintaining that Abir Qesheth was transmitted to him by his father and grandfather. So I guess my quick background check cannot be called conclusive in any way.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:13 AM   #4
Patrick Hutchinson
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Re: Biblical martial art

The only exercise system mentioned in the Bible is Pontius Pilates.
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Old 01-15-2012, 12:06 PM   #5
Janet Rosen
 
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Re: Biblical martial art

Quote:
Patrick Hutchinson wrote: View Post
The only exercise system mentioned in the Bible is Pontius Pilates.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:10 PM   #6
graham christian
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Re: Biblical martial art

Quote:
Patrick Hutchinson wrote: View Post
The only exercise system mentioned in the Bible is Pontius Pilates.
Really? What about the parting of the sea? Good Ki.......ha, ha.

G.
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Old 01-15-2012, 06:33 PM   #7
lbb
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Re: Biblical martial art

The world of martial arts is so very full of this kind of crap, it's no wonder that most people who come to train have their heads full of foolishness.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:27 PM   #8
graham christian
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Re: Biblical martial art

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
The world of martial arts is so very full of this kind of crap, it's no wonder that most people who come to train have their heads full of foolishness.
Why call it such?

G.
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:01 AM   #9
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Biblical martial art

Well. I am seven degrees from Kevin Bacon.

I think it is all a matter of perspective and relativeness. Most of us can figure out that we have such relationships somehow.

I don't really care about all the romanticism that surrounds the concept of unbroken tradition. It boils down to what he can teach, and what was transmitted, and how it is valued in the world at large.

There is no crime in marketing yourself for sure.

Just cause I have an "unbroken" relationship with Kevin Bacon, doesn't mean I can act, or the guy would even know who I am since I have never met the guy, but "something" was transmitted to me through meeting a guy, who met a guy, who actually knows him.

So, I try not to get caught up in the rhetoric of marketing.

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Old 01-16-2012, 03:22 AM   #10
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Re: Biblical martial art

Hmm, Jew-jitsu?
/me runs away very fast!

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:08 AM   #11
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Re: Biblical martial art

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
I don't really care about all the romanticism that surrounds the concept of unbroken tradition. It boils down to what he can teach, and what was transmitted, and how it is valued in the world at large.
Don't you care if someone lies to you?

If someone lies to you about one thing concerning the art that they're teaching you, can you trust the rest of what they have to say about it?

Have you thought about the reasons why someone might fabricate a romantic lineage rather than say, "Hey, I just made this stuff up"? Is this someone you want to learn from? Is this someone who is worthy of respect?
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:38 AM   #12
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Biblical martial art

Well, you can learn useful things from liars and people unworthy of respect.
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Old 01-16-2012, 11:16 AM   #13
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Biblical martial art

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Don't you care if someone lies to you?

If someone lies to you about one thing concerning the art that they're teaching you, can you trust the rest of what they have to say about it?

Have you thought about the reasons why someone might fabricate a romantic lineage rather than say, "Hey, I just made this stuff up"? Is this someone you want to learn from? Is this someone who is worthy of respect?
Any number of reasons could have hypothetically occured. Maybe he believes it's the truth: maybe his grandfather made it up, or his great-grandfather or his great-great-grandfather adopted a needy kid and wanted him to feel special. Maybe, despite the odds, it really extends back hundreds of generations. Maybe he believes it is "true enough," or any number of possible personal justifications. People lie all the time using the best of intentions.
Just because someone tells me the truth doesn't mean I should necessarily trust them; just because they lie doesn't mean I should necessarily distrust them. There is no hard and fast way I know of to judge whether or not to trust someone in any given circumstance. People who have shown me no lies or ill will have "suddenly" and inexplicably betrayed me. So, I view trust as a highly situational thing, based on a level of complexity I'll never be able to entirely see. The only way I know of to trust people is based on intuition. This is fed by my sensibilities...for example, the idea that it's improbable that a martial art has been clearly maintained for 2000 years...but ultimately how I trust someone is based on more than whether or not they're telling me the truth about something...particularly concerning the great half truth commonly known as "history."

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:38 PM   #14
RED
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Re: Biblical martial art

Quote:
Inocencio Maramba wrote: View Post
Hmm, Jew-jitsu?
/me runs away very fast!
You stole my joke

MM
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:48 PM   #15
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Biblical martial art

Quote:
Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
You stole my joke
Actually, it's not a new one, so don't feel bad. In fact, it's been viral on the 'net for years.
http://www.collegehumor.com/picture/230715/jew-jitsu

The guy in the linked photo is the same one being discussed, too. Alas.
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:57 PM   #16
Janet Rosen
 
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Re: Biblical martial art

Yeah but none of them can do my Jewish Mother Aikido.

Janet Rosen
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:16 PM   #17
CitoMaramba
 
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Re: Biblical martial art

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Yeah but none of them can do my Jewish Mother Aikido.
Does Jewish Mother Aikido sound like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=wlUGDzo8pJE


Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:02 PM   #18
Cady Goldfield
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Talking Re: Biblical martial art

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Yeah but none of them can do my Jewish Mother Aikido.
Guilt-Inducement and Overfeeding raised to a high artform!

Last edited by Cady Goldfield : 01-16-2012 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:48 PM   #19
Janet Rosen
 
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Re: Biblical martial art

Quote:
Inocencio Maramba wrote: View Post
Does Jewish Mother Aikido sound like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=wlUGDzo8pJE

I couldn't listen past the first 10 seconds of shouting (tv is beyond me)....based on that... No, not in the least. REAL Jewish mothers never have to raise their voices.

Janet Rosen
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:19 PM   #20
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Biblical martial art

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
Any number of reasons could have hypothetically occured. Maybe he believes it's the truth: maybe his grandfather made it up, or his great-grandfather or his great-great-grandfather adopted a needy kid and wanted him to feel special. Maybe, despite the odds, it really extends back hundreds of generations. Maybe he believes it is "true enough," or any number of possible personal justifications. People lie all the time using the best of intentions.
Just because someone tells me the truth doesn't mean I should necessarily trust them; just because they lie doesn't mean I should necessarily distrust them. There is no hard and fast way I know of to judge whether or not to trust someone in any given circumstance. People who have shown me no lies or ill will have "suddenly" and inexplicably betrayed me. So, I view trust as a highly situational thing, based on a level of complexity I'll never be able to entirely see. The only way I know of to trust people is based on intuition. This is fed by my sensibilities...for example, the idea that it's improbable that a martial art has been clearly maintained for 2000 years...but ultimately how I trust someone is based on more than whether or not they're telling me the truth about something...particularly concerning the great half truth commonly known as "history."
In martial arts it becomes easy for me thease days to figure out what someone knows. It bugs me when people say have a PhD in business and then call themselves doctor when marketing themselves as an expert in martial arts or any number of unrelated fields. That said, they can do what they want...like I said it become evident early on what they know. People that tend to over emphasize this stuff, usually get my BS radar up pretty quickly.

So no I am not really concerned about lieing. Cavet emptor.

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Old 01-18-2012, 06:18 AM   #21
sorokod
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Re: Biblical martial art

A year latter, still snake oil.

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...53357&posted=1

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Old 01-18-2012, 03:02 PM   #22
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Biblical martial art

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
In martial arts it becomes easy for me thease days to figure out what someone knows. It bugs me when people say have a PhD in business and then call themselves doctor when marketing themselves as an expert in martial arts or any number of unrelated fields. That said, they can do what they want...like I said it become evident early on what they know. People that tend to over emphasize this stuff, usually get my BS radar up pretty quickly.

So no I am not really concerned about lieing. Cavet emptor.
I'd have a harder time being able to figure out what someone knows, but because I try hard to maintain a skeptical/"scientific" filter, I'm just not worried about the wool being pulled over my eyes...much; I realize that can lead to a false sense of security, too. Part of my reasoning also comes from the times when I learned something unexpected. I've mentioned before that I came to Aikido thinking it might teach me something about "martial" application, but that it would be better geared toward meditation. I grew up wrestling a lot with my friends and saw a handful of violent events so I had some idea of what physical conflict can look like; some of what I saw at the dojo I ended up training at looked useless and contrived to me. Turns out they have a practical purpose. If I hadn't given it a try I probably never would have learned what little I was able to pick up.
Also, as it relates to even vetted expertise: I've seen enough cases where the expertise of bonafide experts simply fell short, like the time I ruptured my eardrum. I went to the doctor who immediately chastized me saying, "you really never should stick things into your ear." She then proceded to stick a q-tip in my ear, bumping into the tear. Human fallibility pervades even our most accomplished attributes...hence the constant need for the training/evaluation/re-evalutation process.

Last edited by mathewjgano : 01-18-2012 at 03:04 PM.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:18 AM   #23
dalen7
 
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Re: Biblical martial art

- Pontius Pilates
- Jew - Jitsu

ROFL!!!
You guys crack me up.

p.s.
Kevin, you are on the money about the marketing hype... you either have it, or dont.
[sometimes you have a little of both]

Peace

Last edited by dalen7 : 01-19-2012 at 03:23 AM.

dAlen [day•lynn]
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:34 AM   #24
Patrick Hutchinson
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Re: Biblical martial art

OMG I made the same Pilates joke 2 years ago.
Janet liked it both times though, so I don't feel so bad.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:02 AM   #25
graham christian
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Re: Biblical martial art

Quote:
Dave de Vos wrote: View Post
Interesting indeed. I looked up some other clips of Abir. Striking similarities with aikido and even more with some chinese martial arts, I'd say.

Then again, I did a quick background check on Yehoshua Sofer and Abir and it seems that there is considerable doubt concerning the validity of his claims about the unbroken tradition of his art since biblical times. From a wikipedia article: Yehoshua Sofer has been studying eastern martial arts since 1963. He holds (high) dan rankings and he even had a dojo. Only in 2002 did he start teaching his "biblical" art.
Well done Dave, at least one person enjoyed it and admired someone doing their own discipline.

Regards.G.
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