Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > AikiWeb System

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-23-2002, 01:01 AM   #1
AikiWeb System
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,318
Offline
AikiWeb Poll for the week of June 23, 2002:

If you were to physically defend yourself successfully using your aikido skills today, would your attacker be seriously injured?
  • I don't do aikido
  • Yes
  • Probably yes
  • Probably no
  • No
Here are the current results.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 01:53 AM   #2
daedalus
Dojo: Seiryukan Dojo/Illini Aikido
Location: Champaign, IL, USA
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 46
Offline
I answered "Yes" to the poll, but I definitely think that it needs a few qualifiers.

1) It would not be on purpose. This would be from a lack of precision and skill in protecting the attacker.

2) If the attacker was bigger or stronger or faster or smarter or armed or suprising or any other variable that tips the scales in the attackers favor I would also probably be seriously injured, possibly more so than my attacker. But before I died from my stab wound(s), his/her/their wrist(s) would really hurt! Hmmm. I think I should go get ready for class.... ;^)

Brian
--
http://www.shinjinkai.org/
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 03:29 AM   #3
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 890
United_States
Offline
Certainly not.

I will simply run away.

A 5-year-old can run only so fast.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 03:44 AM   #4
erikmenzel
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
erikmenzel's Avatar
Dojo: Aikidojo Leiderdorp
Location: Leiden
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 530
Netherlands
Offline
Running away is the best option. No shame in living another day.

However, knowing ideal situations dont happen that often, I think that I might injure an attacker, even if I dont want to. Whatever happens, happens!

The nicest and softest techniques in aikido are only as nice and as soft as the falling skills of the attacker, so he probably smash his head to the ground, which would definitly be a good way to get seriously injured.

Erik Jurrien Menzel
kokoro o makuru taisanmen ni hirake
Personal:www.kuipers-menzel.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 08:11 AM   #5
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 915
Offline
Hmm...hard to say: since I don't run as fast as Aleksey, it would depend on how out of breath I was from running while calling 911 on my cell and screaming 'fire' at the top of my lungs. Of course, I don't know what in the world I'd be doing in a place where I needed to worry about being attacked in the first place, unless sent there by the military, and in that case it wouldn't be Aikido in my heart but a 9mm in my hand.

The closest I've come is a would-be suitor, who wasn't hurt, but then he gave up pretty easily once I flipped him off of me and he found his hand (well fingers)in a sankyo pin... of course, he was moderately sober and didn't want to get hurt. I think that would be the case with an unknown attacker: my skills not being so great, if I did something sucessfully it probably wouldn't hurt my attacker, as they don't put so much energy into an attack that they can't handle it coming back at them, and I don't tend to add much energy to the mix. Not sure what I do with a 240 pound male attacking me with every ounce of strength, but they just don't seem to do that when attacking a 110 pound female.

The thing about falls is correct, but I'm more inclined to do something that keeps me in contact (to be able to pin and discuss a mutal end to the conflict) rather than a throw (which lets them get up and come at me again), more guiding to the ground rather than tossing across the room.

The thing is, I don't see me often doing it successfully, because at my size, I've got to do it right to do it. Maybe that's why the two times I've done it without a true partner (once with the 'suitor', once with a date who just wanted to see what Aikido was as gave me a very honest attack) it worked but didn't hurt them: Both times I lucked into 'right', which didn't seem to cause them any damage.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 10:54 AM   #6
Brian H
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 102
Offline
Oops

In ten years as a cop I have never intentionally done anything to a suspect to hurt them, but still managed to spend a whole lot of time baby sitting prisoners at the hospital (bumps and bruises - some stitches etc.). If you think you last visit to the hospital was slow, try being stuck with a guy who keeps telling the nurse, "I hope you die" (I found out that you CAN put a tube down someone's nose and pump their stomach!)

Since starting Aikido I have not used "hands on" Aikido much ("hands off" everyday), since I vastly prefer pre-emptive suspect control and pepper spray. But my family expects me home everyday, so if somebody gets hurt it is because of their own actions. (like the guy I went to lock up, who took off running and got hit by a car --- oops)

violence only begets more paperwork
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 12:02 PM   #7
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
Offline
No normal person would intentionally hurt another, so no normal person would attack another, so if we find ourselves in a position where we have to defend ourselves, then we are not dealing with normal people, misunderstandings excepted.

From experience (late night - drunk people), one on one they don't get hurt, more than one, sh** happens.

Osu!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 04:41 PM   #8
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,087
United_States
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by siwilson
No normal person would intentionally hurt another, so no normal person would attack another, so if we find ourselves in a position where we have to defend ourselves, then we are not dealing with normal people, misunderstandings excepted.
If we define "normal" as what the majority of people do then, unfortunately, "normal" people do intentionally hurt and attack other people. A simple read through of world history should support that.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 06:45 PM   #9
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
Offline
Answer the question

I guess running away is not an option if you have already used physical force as the question implies that you have already used force?

So, in the spirit of the question, and physical force already being used, I am afraid when attacked and physical force is used ... the gorilla comes out to play, and that animal does not hold back when awakened.

In the spirit of the theoretical question, attackers would probably be seriously hurt.

Barring the fact that they are schooled in some type of fighting, or able to take ukemi, I don't think that their recovery skills would be of much help when they are slammed to the ground, injured because they resist, or fly through the air semi unconscious.

No.

No sane person would attack me without being hurt, and I don't say it because I wish injury to anyone, but because any time I have not held back I have hurt the attacker with cracked or broken bones ... and my training in Aikido is avoid this animal, but if he should come out to play ...

FYI: One of my personal reasons to gain control of body and mind with Aikido practice.

I would guess this question is a gut check to see where you are in your own training, and what demons you are chasing?

Gut check, anyone?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 07:36 PM   #10
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,075
Japan
Offline
I said probably no - the clincher for me is seriously injured.

I don't define broken wrists or nose and concusions as serious. Not to be laughed at - but not "I am a cabbage" serious.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 08:29 PM   #11
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,724
United_States
Offline
Knowing myself, I would have to admit that yes the person would be seriously injured. Others who know me would probably also agree.

Please don't blame it on my poor Aikido skills. I have always had a bit of an attitude problem and don't play well with others who intentionally initiate attempts to harm me, my family, or friends.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2002, 03:23 PM   #12
Richard Harnack
Dojo: Aikido Institute of Mid-America
Location: Maplewood, Missouri
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 137
Offline
Ai symbol Probably not

I answered "probably not", with the qualifier "If I did it correctly". Of course I also teach "Brick Wall Aikido", as in if an attacker comes charging at me and I step out of the way and they run into a brick wall, then whatever happens to them is on them. Of course if I were fully Aiki, I would most likely have to redirect them away from the brick wall so that they would not get hurt.

However, having had to use my Aikido twice in the last 26 years to defend myself, I can honestly say the worst injury my attackers suffered was to their dignity as they found themselves sitting rather abruptly down.

Yours In Aiki,
Richard Harnack
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2002, 04:47 PM   #13
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,087
United_States
Offline
Re: Probably not

Quote:
Originally posted by Richard Harnack
I answered "probably not", with the qualifier "If I did it correctly". Of course I also teach "Brick Wall Aikido", as in if an attacker comes charging at me and I step out of the way and they run into a brick wall, then whatever happens to them is on them. Of course if I were fully Aiki, I would most likely have to redirect them away from the brick wall so that they would not get hurt.
Maybe it should be another poll:

Do you believe that moving out of the way and allowing your opponent to become injured (ala the "brick wall" defense) is morally superior to taking proactive defensive action (ala the "smack them in the nose" technique)?

My hunch is that most people will say "yes", although I tend to think "no" myself. Either way you perform an action and the opponent is injured as a result of that action. Either way the injury would not have occurred if the opponent had not chosen to attack.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2002, 05:21 PM   #14
AikiAlf
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 47
Offline
Square

if i would physically successfuly defend myself with my aikido skills today my daughter would be ok. it happens a lot, and she's the only one who attacks me these days. I can't run from her yet as she would trip and fall and I don't want to hurt her.

in the dojo I haven't hurt anyone today.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2002, 10:15 AM   #15
engraver30
Dojo: B.R.A.S.S.
Location: Dearborn Hts. MI
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 3
Offline
My sensei, from day one taught us that the best way to avoid a punch is not to be there. This does not only mean to duck, move out of the way, or run away from an altercation, but it means not to get yourself into a situation that requires you to have to defend yourself.
But I am also a realist. I did answer probably yes to this question. I understand that you cannot avoid every situation, and someday you may be put to the test. I know that if I ever get into one of these situations where I can't avoid, I do know that no matter what, I am going to be going home to my wife and kids, whatever I have to do. I do not enjoy hurting other people, but I love my family more and I plan to be around for a long time.

Tony Dehn
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2002, 09:59 PM   #16
Tim Jacobsen
Dojo: Wagokan
Location: Utah
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2
Offline
I think that if I were attacked I would react instinctively. My reaction would be based on the persons attack (punch, kick, or stab) and I would move in a way that blends with the individual's movement and apply the first technique that my position allowed. The result of the technique would depend on the speed of the attack my perceived intention of it as well as the commitment to the attack the opponent has. If this happens to cause serious injury to the attacker then I would feel empathy for his injuries but not regret for my actions as they were only derived from his attack. I voted that I would not injure an attacker on the poll only because this is what I hope would happen.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2002, 10:29 PM   #17
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 890
United_States
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Jacobsen
I think that if I were attacked I would react instinctively. My reaction would be based on the persons attack (punch, kick, or stab) and I would move in a way that blends with the individual's movement and apply the first technique that my position allowed. The result of the technique would depend on the speed of the attack my perceived intention of it as well as the commitment to the attack the opponent has. If this happens to cause serious injury to the attacker then I would feel empathy for his injuries but not regret for my actions as they were only derived from his attack. I voted that I would not injure an attacker on the poll only because this is what I hope would happen.
Or, you will be stuck like a deer in the lights of an oncoming train, while punches will rain on your head and you will see bright white lights, and there will be crying and gnashing of teeth.

Never discard the most likely outcome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2002, 11:56 PM   #18
Tim Jacobsen
Dojo: Wagokan
Location: Utah
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by shihonage


Or, you will be stuck like a deer in the lights of an oncoming train, while punches will rain on your head and you will see bright white lights, and there will be crying and gnashing of teeth.

Never discard the most likely outcome.
I hope that does't happen .... that would suck!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2002, 07:02 AM   #19
Adam Walsh
Dojo: Greenwich Aikido Dojo
Location: London
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 14
United Kingdom
Offline
Wink

Everyones probably seen this before but I consider it apt...

"Ukemi as the skilled art of falling or receiving a technique, and Aikido as a gentle Martial Art that does not harm your attacker, unless he does not know ukemi, in which case it breaks his arm in three places."

Given the chance I'd never want to come close to an attack but you don't always get that chance.

Anyway, legging it is always my first choice.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Cool Rain Productions - Since 1976, the exclusive source for "Aikido in Training" Book/DVD Series



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poll: How often should one "push and persevere" physically in aikido? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 4 09-26-2006 02:28 AM
Poll: How important is it to "push and persevere" physically in aikido training? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 1 09-20-2006 05:09 AM
Poll: How important a part of aikido training is having good attacking skills? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 6 08-11-2006 11:06 AM
Dilution of aikido eugene_lo General 40 02-07-2006 12:22 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:34 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate