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Old 12-08-2011, 09:11 AM   #1
Michael Neal
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Baguazhang Class in Virginia

Does anyone who is experienced with Internal training know anything about this school or teacher George Wood? if this looks like a good place or not.

http://www.zongwumen.com/index.htm
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:59 AM   #2
Thomas Campbell
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Re: BAGUAZHANG Class in Virginia

Quote:
Michael Neal wrote: View Post
Does anyone who is experienced with Internal training know anything about this school or teacher George Wood? if this looks like a good place or not.

http://www.zongwumen.com/index.htm
I haven't trained with George, but I have trained with a couple of his gongfu brothers and they speak highly of his skills as both martial artist and teacher. The training is in Gao Yisheng baguazhang and Hebei xingyiquan. George's teacher is Luo De Xiu from Taiwan, who also comes for annual seminars. George himself spent several years in Taiwan training with Luo. The training will involve a good amount of physical conditioning and hands-on usage/application as well as a lot of material for solo training.
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:40 AM   #3
DH
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Re: BAGUAZHANG Class in Virginia

There is a lot of really good jujutsu masquerading as internal. I lost track of the ICMA people I have now met who....well...cough....were jujutsu people by any other name.
Some of them could fight well, but what has that got to do with it? When you keep landing on your ass and don't know why...it's easy to buy into whatever the man who did it to you....tells you. I'm not saying anything either way about the players, just be careful out there and meet a good cross section of players.
Most experienced jujutsu guys can tell the difference....by feel. Others may just be guessing.
Dan
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Old 12-08-2011, 04:08 PM   #4
HL1978
Dojo: Aunkai
Location: Fairfax, VA
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Re: Baguazhang Class in Virginia

I've heard good things about Mark Li at GMU.
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:45 PM   #5
Michael Neal
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Re: Baguazhang Class in Virginia

Cool thanks Hunter, I am interested in adding some type of striking art one day and why not one that also develops the internal skills. I hope to meet up with you guys soon.
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:54 PM   #6
Michael Neal
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Re: BAGUAZHANG Class in Virginia

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
There is a lot of really good jujutsu masquerading as internal. I lost track of the ICMA people I have now met who....well...cough....were jujutsu people by any other name.
Some of them could fight well, but what has that got to do with it? When you keep landing on your ass and don't know why...it's easy to buy into whatever the man who did it to you....tells you. I'm not saying anything either way about the players, just be careful out there and meet a good cross section of players.
Most experienced jujutsu guys can tell the difference....by feel. Others may just be guessing.
Dan
Dan, I agree, I am really not concerned with whether the person teaching internal skills can beat me up or not, just want to learn the real skills. I am getting older and can't rely on my strength and conditioning as much anymore, just need some new skills to help me keep up
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:19 AM   #7
Lee Salzman
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Re: Baguazhang Class in Virginia

I think the trap with ICMA is going in expecting "internal". I think, in essence if you lack it, sorta like me, that the best thing to watch out for is does at least the person have a good and concise understanding of simple movement mechanics they can teach you? And most importantly, are these mechanics sufficiently general that they apply to all movement, in such a way that whatever incidental forms you may be shown are just ways to help you get the idea? I mean, by all movement, like, to put it bluntly, even the way you take a bowel "movement" () should change, consciously organized as it is. If the way the teaching organizes external movement isn't at least that profound, maybe seek elsewhere.

For example, if you can't find anything at least as cool as Aunkai, then you could be wasting your time. Don't let your self be misled, like I initially was, by the seeming foreignness of the practice, the "Chinese mystique". Make totally sure the content applies back to anything and everything. If it can't do that, it has no hope of being useful martially.

But if it can do at least that for you, then awesome, it's probably some of the better CMA you're going to find. And if they can show you bonafide internal stuff in addition to that, not to the exclusion of that, great. I myself had to search quite extensively to find someone teaching just really good externals. It ain't internal, but at least it's a better base on which to understand the internals.

YMMV
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:01 AM   #8
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
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Re: Baguazhang Class in Virginia

Quote:
Lee Salzman wrote: View Post
to put it bluntly, even the way you take a bowel "movement" () should change, consciously organized as it is.

YMMV
ahh a fellow bowel movement practitioner! i was hoping to run into more folks of such practice. do you circle it clockwise or counter-clockwise? or do zigzag? do you drop your qi/ki and sort of fartjin? do you add some heavy breathing along with loud religious kiai liked "OHHHH GOODDDDD"? do you maintain the 4-H membership? so you find yourself stuck to the seat in way of aiki?

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:02 AM   #9
Lee Salzman
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Re: Baguazhang Class in Virginia

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
ahh a fellow bowel movement practitioner! i was hoping to run into more folks of such practice. do you circle it clockwise or counter-clockwise? or do zigzag? do you drop your qi/ki and sort of fartjin? do you add some heavy breathing along with loud religious kiai liked "OHHHH GOODDDDD"? do you maintain the 4-H membership? so you find yourself stuck to the seat in way of aiki?
I guess I focus on the harmonies and toilet-jin, but I try to avoid tensing the diaphragm or doing any sort of unintentional reverse breathing. Don't strain, use gravity, etc. Not up to excremental spirals yet.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:22 AM   #10
Budd
 
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Re: Baguazhang Class in Virginia

I also think that another thinking error is to expect any specific movement, technique, style or practice to imbue internal strength without the understanding of "how's it work" and "why's it work". Heck, even training under a person with demonstrable skills in IS does NOT mean that you will get any. It's too much incumbent on the individual to put in the time, thought, mental and physical effort to develop the skills that (to me) it makes the most sense to get time in front of someone (which I think others are in agreement):

1) Has demonstrable skills
2) Can explain what they are doing in plain language
3) Has a method to develop the same skills in others
4) Has people that have followed this method and have attained their own varying levels of proficiency in the skillset.

Then there's other stuff that has to do with perceived effectiveness, purity, legitimacy of approach, etc. I don't have a dog in that brawl or honestly enough hands on time with the various folks to speak intelligently about what everyone's up to (since back when I was initially getting hands on multiple folks as a beginner, all I knew was that it just felt different, unusual and very powerful).

Michael - I think there's enough folks with recognized abilities in a variety of arts rolling through your neck of the woods on the seminar circuit - that it would make sense to try to get hands on time with a few people - then see who's practice resonates the most AND that you'll have some support while you train in your local area (both are important). What I'd avoid is trying to create your own mix and match of everyone's approach as I've not seen that get anyone anywhere fast until they have at least a reasonable foundation in the basic skills and conditioning OR assuming that study of any art that is typically defined as "internal" will teach or condition the skills.

FWIW and YMMV
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:13 PM   #11
hughrbeyer
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Boston
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Re: Baguazhang Class in Virginia

Taking all the caveats above as given, and not knowing anything about this specific school, I found bagua highly enlightening.

If they're at all decent, and if you absolutely can't get on the mat with someone who has certified IS skills, I don't think you'd be wasting your time there.

What I found is the basic exercises all the way up to the circle walk made it very hard not to practice some of the basic body skills that are useful in IS. You can't mechanically do the exercises without practicing such things as moving the dantien independently of the hips, coiling, bowing (bowing as in bow-and-arrow, not as in rei), and moving the parts of the body individually but connected. Also some good breathing work in there.

It made me very impatient with most of the exercises I've encountered in Aikido. If you aren't going to teach me internals along with the exercises, at least teach exercises that will force me to do something useful rather than let me putz along wasting my time.
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