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Old 09-29-2005, 10:22 PM   #101
akiy
 
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Hi folks,

Let's stay on the subject which is regarding people getting onto the mat under the influence of drugs.

Thanks,

-- Jun

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Old 09-30-2005, 04:31 AM   #102
Lee Mulgrew
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Re: once upon a time

Quote:
Mike Lee wrote:
There's a time and place for everything. I recommend habitually keeping the aikido dojo a place that remains basically pure.
This pretty much sums it up for me. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against anyone doing any thing that they wish to as long as it has no negative effect on the people around them. But... getting high to go to trainig is not only irresponsible and dangerous for the people you train with, it is also extremely disrespectful to the whole ethos of Aikido. There is a time and place for everything... I would no more get stoned or drunk or whatever and go to Aikido than I would attack people shomen uchi to get to the bar first! (however tempting that may be!)
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Old 09-30-2005, 07:56 AM   #103
Paul D. Smith
 
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

By one definition, inherent in recreational drug use is that drugs are:

"Substances that are capable of altering natural biological processes, with their manipulating nature used in medicine as a corrective measure against deviances from these normal biological processes..."

I don't know that most use cannabis or alcohol in order to restore a normal biological process. From my history with both, it was to achieve an altered state of some kind. In other words, to be some place else than here and now.

To me, training is an effort to achieve clarity, often under exigent circumstances. To see clearly. To be here, now, fully.

Therefore, to me, drugs and training are absolutely antithetical to the purpose of each other. And I would expect my training partner to be of like mind.

Paul
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Old 10-02-2005, 07:16 AM   #104
Chad Scott
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Considering marijuana is widely illegal, sensei should set a better example. Shame on that whole group.
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Old 10-02-2005, 10:07 AM   #105
rachmass
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Maybe I am completely naive, but in my 20 plus years of practicing aikido, I have never once seen anyone either high or drunk on the mat. I have seen hung over people on the mat, and their aikido was definitely somewhat less attentive than typical, but I haven't had the misfortune of practicing with someone in an altered state <touches wood, and hopes it never happens>

I should find it offensive and dangerous to practice with someone who was altered that way, as we really do try to give our partners our full attention and commitment. Doing so in an altered state would be unfair to everyone, and could be very dangerous.
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Old 10-02-2005, 11:54 AM   #106
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Quote:
Rachel Massey wrote:
Maybe I am completely naive, but in my 20 plus years of practicing aikido, I have never once seen anyone either high or drunk on the mat.
In just six years of practice, I have, unfortunately.
Quote:
I should find it offensive and dangerous to practice with someone who was altered that way, as we really do try to give our partners our full attention and commitment. Doing so in an altered state would be unfair to everyone, and could be very dangerous.
Absolutely agree.

kvaak
Pauliina
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Old 10-02-2005, 01:19 PM   #107
Lan Powers
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Quote:
Paul Smith wrote:
By one definition, inherent in recreational drug use is that drugs are:

"Substances that are capable of altering natural biological processes, with their manipulating nature used in medicine as a corrective measure against deviances from these normal biological processes..."

I don't know that most use cannabis or alcohol in order to restore a normal biological process. From my history with both, it was to achieve an altered state of some kind. In other words, to be some place else than here and now.

To me, training is an effort to achieve clarity, often under exigent circumstances. To see clearly. To be here, now, fully.

Therefore, to me, drugs and training are absolutely antithetical to the purpose of each other. And I would expect my training partner to be of like mind.

Paul
Very well put!
I Especially concur with this portion...
>To me, training is an effort to achieve clarity, often under exigent circumstances. To see clearly. To be here, now, fully.<

I loved to smoke. I smoked daily , often, and under all facets of my daily routine. Decided that I was devoting too much effort to Scoring, finding, trying not to get caught with...etc. So I quit.

I was one of the ones who could "cope" with it. If you didn't know me WELL you never would have known.

I wouldn't even CONSIDER getting on the mat loaded. You put folks at risk, it isn't fun, and laying back cruising along high did NOT equate well with focusing and pushing you and your friends/loved ones/dojo mates to your limits and then pushing those limits back.
Smoke if you want. Train if you want. Just don't cheat you or your partner on the mat from training by trying to combine the two.

I need more focus than that in my training...and I need more focus from you if we train together.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
Lan

Play nice, practice hard, but remember, this is a MARTIAL art!
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Old 10-02-2005, 05:40 PM   #108
Lorien Lowe
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Re: high on the mat

Quote:
Edward Stapleton wrote:
All though an extremely stereotypical and incorrect statement,
I think some fairness, and a bit of understanding is in order.
It is not 'stoners' that smells it is the person, who happens to smoke marijuana. Let us remember that the majority of people who consume cannabis (in whatever form) are normal everyday people, with normal everyday jobs, who do normal everyday things.
Eddie
Dude, I live in Humboldt Co, California. Cannabis is our main cash crop. I'm speaking from experience, not stereotyping.
When someone does weed, it makes their body smell like weed - just like eating garlic makes your body smell like garlic or drinking coffee makes your body smell like coffee (I'm trying to wean myself from coffee for this reason).

Working on something like, for instance, iriminage tenkan with someone who reeks of anything can be a pretty unplesant experience. There's one person in particular who's unplesant to be in the same half of the dojo with.

-L
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Old 10-02-2005, 06:51 PM   #109
Qatana
 
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Nobody's Body smells like weed. Its their Clothing. You can say exactly the same thing about tobacco smokers, and I've been thrown by some pretty high ranked people who stank of smoke.

Q
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Old 10-02-2005, 08:35 PM   #110
Rink
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Re: high on the mat

Quote:
Lorien Lowe wrote:
Dude, I live in Humboldt Co, California. Cannabis is our main cash crop. I'm speaking from experience, not stereotyping.
When someone does weed, it makes their body smell like weed - just like eating garlic makes your body smell like garlic or drinking coffee makes your body smell like coffee (I'm trying to wean myself from coffee for this reason).

Working on something like, for instance, iriminage tenkan with someone who reeks of anything can be a pretty unplesant experience. There's one person in particular who's unplesant to be in the same half of the dojo with.

-L
Regardless of where you live, it does not change the fact the Tetrahydrocannabinol is not released through sweat glands, therefore it is physically impossible for you to be smelling 'them' (hence the stink). Unlike alcohol, and other such substances (which are released through the sweat glands)


Quote:
Jo Adell wrote:
Nobody's Body smells like weed. Its their Clothing. You can say exactly the same thing about tobacco smokers, and I've been thrown by some pretty high ranked people who stank of smoke.
Well put, Jo.

Eddie
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Old 10-02-2005, 08:56 PM   #111
Lorien Lowe
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Quote:
Jo Adell wrote:
Nobody's Body smells like weed. Its their Clothing. You can say exactly the same thing about tobacco smokers, and I've been thrown by some pretty high ranked people who stank of smoke.
Uhhh, so they've been lighting up in the dressing room, to make their gi stink (no, they don't always bring their gi from home)?
No - having had my face shoved into enough of these gis, I don't get the impression that the scent is in the cloth unless the cloth is pretty wet. Nor is it just their breath.

I suppose it could be on their skin from having handled it, as opposed to leaking out from within via sweat - but it's an unmistakable, unplesant odor, and it tends to show up more (surprise, surprise) on people who use than on people who don't.

-L
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Old 10-02-2005, 10:24 PM   #112
Lorien Lowe
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

I don't mean to imply that everyone who uses pot can necessarily be smelled - I know at least a few people who smoke on an occasional basis on whom I have never smelled the evidence. However, some people clearly can be differentiated by nose, and it's not nice to train around when this is true.

-L
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Old 02-18-2006, 07:03 PM   #113
Edwin Neal
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

how can you tell the state of someone else's 'consciousness'? my consciousness is definately altered by whether i have my very strong morning cups of coffee or not... should i practice if i have drank coffee... or if i have not had my coffee... which is the proper state of consciousness? do all people share a "normal conscious state" or does it vary by individual? if your conscious is affected by both using substances and by not using substances, which is the path to follow? is there an optimal formula that gives the proper state of consciousness for practice or any other activity?

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-18-2006, 08:30 PM   #114
Lan Powers
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Quote:
Edwin Neal wrote:
how can you tell the state of someone else's 'consciousness'? my consciousness is definately altered by whether i have my very strong morning cups of coffee or not... should i practice if i have drank coffee... or if i have not had my coffee... which is the proper state of consciousness? do all people share a "normal conscious state" or does it vary by individual? if your conscious is affected by both using substances and by not using substances, which is the path to follow? is there an optimal formula that gives the proper state of consciousness for practice or any other activity?
your state of consciousness is your own business, but being impaired and risking others is more the issue.
At least that is my take on the question.
It could even be boiled down to the concept of keeping your personal life off the mat.
Focus, train, don't hurt anyone. (Or put others at unneeded risk)
Lan

Play nice, practice hard, but remember, this is a MARTIAL art!
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Old 02-18-2006, 08:33 PM   #115
James Smithe
 
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Why is this back from the dead?
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Old 02-18-2006, 08:40 PM   #116
Edwin Neal
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

how then do you define 'impaired consciousness'? can you tell if someones consciousness is impaired? does it matter how or what is impairing your consciousness? if i have my coffee and i'm wired does that count as impaired and pose unneeded risk? what if i'm groggy from not having coffee? what if my personal life impairs me on the mat? what if i don't realize this? how would you realize this? how does one keep their personal life off the mat?

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-19-2006, 02:55 AM   #117
siwilson
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Quote:
Edwin Neal wrote:
how then do you define 'impaired consciousness'? can you tell if someones consciousness is impaired? does it matter how or what is impairing your consciousness? if i have my coffee and i'm wired does that count as impaired and pose unneeded risk? what if i'm groggy from not having coffee? what if my personal life impairs me on the mat? what if i don't realize this? how would you realize this? how does one keep their personal life off the mat?
In the cases you sight, if they mean you cannot train responsibly and controlled, then stay off the mat until you can.

Osu!
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Old 02-19-2006, 09:24 AM   #118
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

I read something about O'Sensei waking people up early to train vigorously when students would be drinking the night before.

As for the first post, if you are going to do it, don't announce it.

I used to smoke pot every day and aikido days were no exception. I think one of the senior students could tell because he used to always add a lot of atemi when I worked with him. One thing I have learned since then is that on the days I felt good when I used to smoke are actually pretty crappy in comparison to the days when I feel good now.
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Old 02-19-2006, 09:33 AM   #119
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Quote:
What I don't get is why anybody would feel the need to combine any drug (pot, alcohol, etc) with aikido. As if it isn't enough fun already! I've tried at least 3/4 of the illegal substances out there (and all the legal ones), and none of them comes close to the euphoria of good aikido practice.

Agreed. I credit aikido very much in my ability to stop smoking both weed and cigarettes. Running and weight training also contributed.
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Old 02-19-2006, 09:39 AM   #120
SMART2o
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Quote:
James Singleton wrote:
Question: What of those who smoke marijuana for it's medicinal purposes? Some of these people are known to participate in martial arts like Tai Chi and Aikido to help with the same problems that they smoke for. What's everyone's opinion on that?

My opinion is to go for it. AIkido can be practiced slowly and safely. We all remember our first few classes I'm sure. Keep it slow and train like a beginner. As for Tai Chi, have you ever heard of anyone getting injured practicing Tai Chi?
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Old 02-19-2006, 09:46 AM   #121
Edwin Neal
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

How can you, or anyone else judge if you are 'impaired'? accidents do happen... does this mean that the practitioner was impaired and thus should not have been training? Did they not realize it? Can you then be 'okay' to train and yet become impaired 'during' class? How would you tell? Could you tell this about someone else? Do the terms 'responsibly and controlled' differ from person to person or are they say a set absolute standard? Do you think everyone practices 'responsibly and controlled' whether they are 'impaired' in anyway or not? Can we cite examples of people who were not practicing 'responsibly and controlled' and if so were they 'impaired' in some way? Could someone be 'impaired' and yet still practice 'responsibly and controlled'?

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-19-2006, 09:51 AM   #122
siwilson
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Quote:
Edwin Neal wrote:
How can you, or anyone else judge if you are 'impaired'? accidents do happen... does this mean that the practitioner was impaired and thus should not have been training? Did they not realize it? Can you then be 'okay' to train and yet become impaired 'during' class? How would you tell? Could you tell this about someone else? Do the terms 'responsibly and controlled' differ from person to person or are they say a set absolute standard? Do you think everyone practices 'responsibly and controlled' whether they are 'impaired' in anyway or not? Can we cite examples of people who were not practicing 'responsibly and controlled' and if so were they 'impaired' in some way? Could someone be 'impaired' and yet still practice 'responsibly and controlled'?
Jeez, you been smokin' somethin' there, boy?


Osu!
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Old 02-19-2006, 09:51 AM   #123
SMART2o
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Quote:
Patrik Eng wrote:
I can't believe that there's even a topic like this here. Does these things really occur?! Honestly, only a complete idiot would get high before aikido class!
Yes, these things really occur and not just in aikido, but in pretty much everything you could think of. We live in a drug seeking culture.
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Old 02-19-2006, 09:54 AM   #124
Edwin Neal
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

No Si, just trying to set out what the terms mean to folks... and how these things are measured/judged...

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-19-2006, 10:17 AM   #125
Lan Powers
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Quote:
Edwin Neal wrote:
No Si, just trying to set out what the terms mean to folks... and how these things are measured/judged...

Hard to put a "definate" definition to the terms....
We've all seen folks with scattered attention....A D D and other things, there is a danger to working with ANYONE who is un-focused. Haven't you seen the (usually/newbie) who while he is cutting the uke over is already looking around, seeking approval from the Sensei, not concentrating, or just has his mind slip into idle for a sec.?
This is very dangerous to all who are within reach of him/her, obviously, and you have to take special care to keep your ukemi in your own control rather than relying on the unnattentive to keep you safe.
Stoners are unnattentive and/or uninvolved by definition.- (My opinion)
I want to focus on learning, not trying to not be hurt from someone being slack in commitment to training by coming to the mat high.
You may have a differant view. People do.
Safe productive training to you then.....(DO be careful tho)
Lan

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