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Old 08-19-2002, 01:29 PM   #51
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The anonymous user in post #49 argues that illegality is not immutable, therefore legality cannot be used as a guide for our actions.

The premise of the argument is true: laws change. However, to live one's life by your own morals without regard to the laws that are in place at the time is irresponsible. Other people in society operate in a way that assumes everybody follows the same guidelines. By deciding that what you want is more important than the agreed-on guidelines, you declare your desires to be more important than harmony in society and the effects your actions have on others.

I don't believe there is anything inherently morally wrong with smoking pot, but there are times and places when it is irresponsible. When other people are trusting you to be clear-headed and keep them safe, I think that is one of those times. (BTW, that is the difference between moralizing and asking people to respect their training partners).

If you don't have enough respect for the law (or if you happen to live in a country where it's not against the law) then how about having some respect for the founder's rules. Intoxication on the mat is not aligned with the practice set forth by O Sensei, which is a practice of misogi as mentioned above.

Anybody who thinks smoking up before training is okay, do you feel the same way about your kids' school bus driver doing it before coming to work?

P.S. I used to smoke a lot -- every day, before work, all the time. I became very successful in what I do and smoking pot never interferred with my life, so I don't have any bias about it. However - I don't go into the dojo high, out of respect for my training partners.
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Old 08-19-2002, 01:48 PM   #52
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TO SMOKE OR NOT TO SMOKE IS A PERSONAL DECISION. AKIDO PRACTICIONERS ARE SEEKERS AS ARE SOME MARIJUANA USERS.
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Old 08-19-2002, 04:16 PM   #53
cguzik
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That is surely true. Everything you do is a choice, a personal decision. Those choices affect other people, most of the time. That is why responsible choices are important.

The question on the table is not "to smoke or not to smoke." It is whether it is irresponsible or disrespectful to your partners to train with them while you are high. Maybe the answer is to ask them. If you want to be high on the mat, perhaps that's okay as long as all your partners know that. If you're teaching, then your students should know. If they stay around, then cool at least they are making informed decisions.

Chris
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Old 08-20-2002, 02:28 PM   #54
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people who practice akido are searchers as are SOME people who use marijuana.
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Old 08-22-2002, 04:07 AM   #55
mike lee
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Cool trial by fire

Search all you want! Submitting one's self to training appropriately under a qualified instructor is a great way to search. In my opinion, one of the best.

The culture of the dojo in that search should be kept simple and pure. This is in accordance with the of aikido.
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Old 08-22-2002, 04:28 AM   #56
Genex
 
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Smile

personaly i find aikido is much more of a high then the old weed, yeah i'll smoke it at party's n sometimes when i'm out but not in aikido i think it would dull the sensations and i wouldnt get the same kind of high that you would normaly get.

btw am i the only one who feels awake after an aikido class or does everyone drop down exausted?

pete

like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick. - The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy on the Pan-galactic Gargleblaster!
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Old 08-22-2002, 04:51 AM   #57
Jim ashby
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Hi Peter. I drag myself to the Dojo for the thursday night class (Dan grades, first Kyu and second Kyu only)after a long day at work, practice for 1 1/2 hours and come off the mat buzzing with energy. Maybe I'm just weird!

Have fun.

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
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Old 08-22-2002, 12:34 PM   #58
virginia_kyu
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
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There is nothing wrong with moralizing, sorry. Anyone who says otherwise is a hypocrite.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
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Old 08-22-2002, 12:52 PM   #59
wanderingwriath
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I'd still like to get an opinion on medicinal marijuana use. It's legal in some states and there are even some federally OK'd cases of medicinal marijuana. Will you deny these people the joy of Aikido just because they smoke?
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Old 08-22-2002, 03:24 PM   #60
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strange mr. neal. hypocrite:

a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion

so those who don't moralize are hypocrites?

you have stated your views on contemporary issues on which you moralize freely

but witness

http://gush-shalom.org/archives/kurdi_eng.html

so moralizers put me off

i state it and am no hypocrite
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Old 08-27-2002, 12:24 PM   #61
virginia_kyu
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everyone moralizes, the only difference between them is the issues they moralize on.

-- Michael Neal
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Old 08-27-2002, 01:02 PM   #62
guest1234
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James,

The question is not whether it should be legal to smoke MJ, or if it is moral to smoke MJ. The question is, does it put your partners needlessly at risk (or even greater risk if the one who smokes is the sensei or a senior resposnsible for the overall safety of the class).

I would not deny the opportunity to practice to those who are prescribed Marinol, nor those who (where it is approved) used medical MJ. Nor would I want to deprive those who must take heavily sedating narcotic medications for pain. BUT...

for their own safety and that of the others on the mat, I would expect them to act responsibly and NOT get on the mat after using them. Wait until after. If unable to wait, then you are probably too ill to do more than watch right now, anyway. What are some medical indications for Marinol? Severe nausea due to chemotherapy; severe wasting due to AIDS. If your symptoms can be controlled with the drug without using it so often you need to use it before you get on the mat, fine. Otherwise, you are probably not good for training right now, due to the health reasons alone, let alone your inability to devote full concentration due to the medication effects. Not only do you put your partners at risk, but you with ill health to start with cannot afford to be foggy while training.

It is legal to drink alcohol. But who wants to ride in a car or a plane with the driver/pilot drunk.
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Old 08-27-2002, 01:24 PM   #63
ChristianBoddum
 
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Hi !

Just a note,you should never train with alchohol in the blood because your organs

will be strained much more while exercising

and be in real danger.

Train safely - Chr.B.
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Old 09-08-2002, 05:20 AM   #64
suebailey
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Angry grtting high on the mat!

hi all

im dead against drugs unless prescribed mainly cos my bro died from them.

i think getting high before a class is very dangerous and iresponsible!

any sensi who is knowingly doing drugs before the class should struck off!

well thats my oppinion

sue

with out the heart there can be no understanding between body and mind and if u have never linked ur self to true emptiness you will never comprehend the full dimension of aikido.
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Old 09-08-2002, 07:23 AM   #65
Ta Kung
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I can't believe that there's even a topic like this here. Does these things really occur?! Honestly, only a complete idiot would get high before aikido class!
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Old 09-08-2002, 09:19 AM   #66
Jim ashby
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Hi Patrik. There are a lot of complete idiots in the world, just look at the heads of state. Somebody voted them in!!

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
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Old 09-08-2002, 11:45 AM   #67
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I can't beleive that this is still a topic here. How many months has it been? It sorta indicates the pointlessness of discussing anything related to aikido. (yes, my postion is: "Shut up anD practice.")

If you wanna practice, well, then practice. If you don't trust your partner(s), well, then maybe you take the opportunity and learn something from it, i.e., use it to learn how to take care of yourself and, by extension, others. By all means, stop thinking that you're gonna somehow change other people, whether they smoke pot before class (I've never seen anyone actually "get high _on_ the mat")or whatever. Mind your own business. If you don't want leave your dojo and find somewhere else to practice, consider applying your experience to ukemi. Ukemi skills in the aikido world are lacking, so you'd be doing the art a tremendous service. If you can't take ukemi, you never going to apply genuine nage-waza.

So, stick this in your pipes and smoke it...and then continue to lamely mentally masturbate about aikido...if you want to...
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Old 09-09-2002, 06:51 AM   #68
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MY GOD ITS FULL OF STARS.....
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Old 09-09-2002, 07:26 AM   #69
mike lee
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Cool alcohol warps perceptions

Quote:
... lamely mentally masturbate about aikido ...
A bit HARD for me to picture, but look at this! Excerpts:

DPA, Glasgow

A study has established a link between drinking alcohol and perceptions of beauty. Scientists in Scotland found evidence of the so-called "beer goggles" effect in a study involving 80 students.

The researchers wanted to measure the infamous phenomenon by which members of the opposite sex become more attractive as one drinks more alcohol. They discovered that men and women who have drunk a moderate amount of alcohol find the faces of the opposite sex 25 percent more attractive than their sober counterparts.

And the study revealed that there was no difference in the beer goggles effect between men and women. The students at Glasgow University were shown colour photographs of 120 male and female St Andrews University students aged between 18 and 26.

Participants were asked to rate their aesthetic properties on a scale of between one - highly unattractive - to seven - highly attractive. Half of the students had drunk up to four units of alcohol, equivalent to a maximum of around two pints of lager or two-and-a-half glasses of wine. The 40 tipsy aesthetes rated the people in the photographs as broadly more attractive than their abstemious counterparts.

Professor Barry Jones, from Glasgow University's psychology department, and his fellow academic, Ben Jones, from St Andrews University, led the study. They said: "Everyone's heard of the beer goggles effect but we wanted to measure once and for all whether a moderate amount of alcohol increases the judgement of facial attractiveness. The increase in perceived attractiveness appeared to be the same for the ugly people as the pretty people. Attractiveness provides a very important signal of mate quality, it shows you have good genes and a healthy body."

The beer goggles phenomenon is caused by alcohol stimulating the part of the human brain which is used to determine facial attractiveness, the nucleus accumbens, they said.

P.S. Maybe we should all just get drunk and screw in the dojo. We can call it "Aiki-contemporary."

Last edited by mike lee : 09-09-2002 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 09-09-2002, 08:17 AM   #70
Brian H
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Once beer goggles have set it, would it also mean that you were also that much less able when it is time for "technique" and "ukemi." (on and off the mat)

Evil triumphs when good men do nothing
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Old 09-09-2002, 08:22 AM   #71
mike lee
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age-old problems

It depends on how attractive she appears to be at that particular moment.
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Old 07-20-2004, 02:44 AM   #72
"rendaikidojo"
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

A few thoughts:

1. Martin Luther King once said - "it is a responsibility to obey just laws - and to disobey unjust laws."
2. Can't believe this is even a thread? Getting "high" or "intoxicated" does not equal smoking MJ - the two are distinct - getting high is a state of mind and not a substance, drugs may be used to achieve that state of mind but also for other (eg., medicinal) purposes.
3. Our society tends to moralise that "chemical" methods for achieving a "high" are more wrong than natural methods. This is not necessarily the case - an anorexic who gets high by not eating, for example does more damage to him/herself and others than someone who takes a prescribed antidepressant.
4. Oh, of course, we also moralise that if you are to use a chemical it is better to use a prescribed one. What matters is the state of mind you are in, and it is possible a prescribed chemical is more "intoxicating" than a leisure drug.
5. Again, the point is the state of mind and not how it was achieved. No I would have no problem with someone driving my kids to school having taken MJ - if they are not "high" it's safer than if they have got high through another method.
6. What matters is "intoxication that clouds judgement" - that can happen even by eating an orange (e.g., if you haven't eaten for a few days)! or other, "natural "methods.

illegal=wrong
MJ=high
chemical=bad
natural=good
These are what I would call cultural misassumptions.

intoxication= bad on (or off?) the mat (however achieved)
judging others = bad on or off the mat
These comments I think, are fair

We need to transcend culture a little here - did you know that the use of a verticality continuum to represent a bipolarity of mood (ie. high-low) only originated in the 18th Century?

:-)
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Old 07-20-2004, 09:37 AM   #73
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

I would love for one of you idiotic stoners to come practice Judo high.
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Old 07-20-2004, 11:22 AM   #74
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Just an observation - the high and the substance are not the same thing - you can get high without taking MJ and you can take MJ without getting high. Let's keep the two separate - to do anything else is judgemental, especially in light of the fact that there is a lot of evidence to suggest that levels of intoxication are significantly affected by context and psychological factors.

I agree with the last post to the extent that it's better not to practice _any_ martial art while "high" - but in real life it is quite common for people to get into fights on the way out of the pub where there are a lot of intoxicated people, and the person being attacked may well be intoxicated themselves!

This doesn't mean anyone should _practice_ when high or intoxicated, but if a martial art cannot adapt to the level of intoxication (as the above post suggests is the case with Judo) then it has limited self-defence advantages... :-)

Classifying all MJ users as "stoners" does not distinguish between the drug and its usage or its effects on a particular individual (which may not be a "high").

I feel sympathy for the posting on Judo and stoners - but perhaps the point could have been made better another way?
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Old 07-20-2004, 11:23 AM   #75
markwalsh
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Re: Getting High On The Mat!

Stoners might love for idiot Judoka to come chill with them.

JOKE
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