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Old 03-30-2006, 07:14 AM   #1
"anon"
IP Hash: 0d8eae62
Anonymous User
Feeling Guilty (sort of)

OK heres the situation. I have been with a Dojo for a while and they (organization, teachers and fellow students) are great! A fellow aikidoka, lets call him "Ramone", moved to my town and is hoping to create a dojo, different style, affiliation. I found out, introduced myself and welcomed "Ramone" to town. Through some emails I told "Ramone" about our group and Sensei, and said if you contact our sensei I am sure he would be welcome as we love to have visitors regardless of styles as we like to see different things. Anyway, "Ramone" visited a few times to train, very nice individual. Well I recently found out that "Ramone" has tried to recruit some of our members for his dojo. All this was done on the "down low" as the kids say. Well our sensei found out, talked to "Ramone", and sadly he is no longer welcome. I found out about the situation last night and was shocked.
Now here are my questions:
1) Should I feel guilty for the situation I (sort of) created?
2) What should I do IF "Ramone" contacts me for help with his dojo? Before all this I mentioned I would help if I could but that I have no interest in joining them as I am very happy with where I am currently. Can I rescind this offer? Is that aiki?
3) Should I avoid welcoming people to our group?
FYI, I plan on talking to my sensei tonight about this. But I would just like some others take on this.

Thanks
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Old 03-30-2006, 11:43 AM   #2
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
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Re: Feeling Guilty (sort of)

He's a dick. So: NO.

Offering to open your doors to other people is fine, poaching students isnt.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 03-30-2006, 11:44 AM   #3
James Davis
 
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Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
Location: Ft. Myers, FL.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 716
United_States
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Re: Feeling Guilty (sort of)

Quote:
1) Should I feel guilty for the situation I (sort of) created?
No way! You intended to help someone spread a wonderful art to another part of town. No doubt, you probably felt that this person could reach potential students unable to reach your dojo.
Quote:
2) What should I do IF "Ramone" contacts me for help with his dojo? Before all this I mentioned I would help if I could but that I have no interest in joining them as I am very happy with where I am currently. Can I rescind this offer? Is that aiki?
You can offer him advice. I, myself, woud include the advice to not steal students. Tell "Ramone" to print some business cards and invite people to visit his dojo in an open and straightforward manner. If the students want to change to his school after their visit, that's their business. The fact that he was being secretive about it is a little bit sad.
Quote:
3) Should I avoid welcoming people to our group?
Absolutely not! How will you ever share your art with anyone new? How would aikidoka visiting your town find a dojo home if you were constantly afraid of inviting them to yours? Keep doing what you're doing.

Quote:
FYI, I plan on talking to my sensei tonight about this. But I would just like some others take on this.
Hope it helps.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 03-30-2006, 11:46 AM   #4
James Davis
 
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Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
Location: Ft. Myers, FL.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Feeling Guilty (sort of)

Quote:
Nick Simpson wrote:
He's a dick. So: NO.

Offering to open your doors to other people is fine, poaching students isnt.
Wow! I could have made my post so much shorter! You're a genius, Nick!

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:27 PM   #5
merlynn
 
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Dojo: lone pine ryu school of aiki kyusho jujutsu ,woking & guildford
Location: kingston upon hull
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 188
United Kingdom
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Re: Feeling Guilty (sort of)

i dont think you should feel guilty in wanting to invite some one to your dojo the fact that this moron took advantage of your kindness is awful but dont give up there are a more than enough decent aikidoka out there.
ps i have invited a few of the guys and gals who post on aikiweb to come visit us cos they know they are welcome

some things are so dear and so precious you have to let them go
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Old 03-30-2006, 03:33 PM   #6
Robert Jackson
Dojo: seishinkan
Location: Texas City.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 133
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Re: Feeling Guilty (sort of)

Quote:
1) Should I feel guilty for the situation I (sort of) created?
Nope as said above you were trying to spread your art and possibly your teacher. You invited him he took advantage of it. It reflects on him not you

Quote:
2) What should I do IF "Ramone" contacts me for help with his dojo? Before all this I mentioned I would help if I could but that I have no interest in joining them as I am very happy with where I am currently. Can I rescind this offer? Is that aiki?
Do you want to help him? I probably would not. Thus I would say no... If he asks just tell him how you feel. Be straight up with him and you can both decide what to do in that situation.

Quote:
3) Should I avoid welcoming people to our group?
FYI, I plan on talking to my sensei tonight about this. But I would just like some others take on this.
NO! If the instructor wants you to invite people then by all means invite people.

I put my right foot in, I put my left foot out, I do the Aikipokey and throw you all about
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Old 03-30-2006, 05:13 PM   #7
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,218
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Re: Feeling Guilty (sort of)

You could not foresee how things would go. Most of us can't. By all means rescind the offer to help with his dojo, it would make you a sort of accomplice. In gassho
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Old 03-30-2006, 11:56 PM   #8
Aristeia
Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
New Zealand
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Re: Feeling Guilty (sort of)

Let's not necessarily be too quick to judge Ramone. What does "recruiting on the down low" mean? It could just be that people were chatting in the changing rooms and Ramone told them what he was doing and that they were welcome to check it out as part of normal conversation. Which is innocuous enough but many would interepret as coming in to poach. <shrug>

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 03-31-2006, 12:49 AM   #9
nelsonhomer
Dojo: Kiryukan Dojo(formerly Takemusu Hidaka)
Location: Obando Bulacan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5
Philippines
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Re: Feeling Guilty (sort of)

in my opinion its up to the student if he feels "ramone" has good aikido, and if the student chose to train with him its ok. if he stays with the old teacher then very good.

in the end students will really see whose stick is "really" bigger
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Old 03-31-2006, 03:11 AM   #10
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 225
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Re: Feeling Guilty (sort of)

Quote:
:
1) Should I feel guilty <snip>
2) What should I do <snip>
3) Should I avoid <snip>

Thanks
As a Therapist-friend of mine often used to say...

There are no "should's."

Last edited by Neil Mick : 03-31-2006 at 03:16 AM.
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Old 03-31-2006, 06:04 AM   #11
John (King John)
 
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Dojo: Prince Bishops Durham/ White Rose
Location: Durham (north east England)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 32
England
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Re: Feeling Guilty (sort of)

Would it be unseemly for students to go to both classes?

Grab my arm.....The other arm.....MY other arm
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Old 03-31-2006, 06:34 AM   #12
merlynn
 
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Dojo: lone pine ryu school of aiki kyusho jujutsu ,woking & guildford
Location: kingston upon hull
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 188
United Kingdom
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Re: Feeling Guilty (sort of)

Quote:
John Chapman wrote:
Would it be unseemly for students to go to both classes?
no i dont think it would as my sensei mark was once a student of rays , i think its ok as long as neither undermines the others teaching

some things are so dear and so precious you have to let them go
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Old 03-31-2006, 07:04 AM   #13
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
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Re: Feeling Guilty (sort of)

Quote:
You're a genius, Nick!
I know James, I try to keep it on the downlo though

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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