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Old 06-20-2002, 08:12 AM   #1
Chris Tan
Dojo: Aikido Shinju-Kai
Location: Singapore
Join Date: May 2002
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Combination Techniques

The other day during practice, our sensei started teaching combinations of different Aikido techniques.

He started of doing something like a one-handed shihonage-ura from a katate-dori-gaku-hammi attack, and then adding a follow up technique such as kategashi/kokyu-nage/kaiten-nage/etc as uke spun out of the shihonage position. (God, this is hard to describe! )

In fact I have seen 1 time where he combined 3 techniques together (ikko-shihonage-iriminage). Has anybody else seen or practiced combinations of Aikido techniques in their dojo? What other combinations have you seen or practiced?
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Old 06-20-2002, 08:51 AM   #2
justinm
Location: Maidenhead
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One way to look at this is that most techniques are 'combinations' in that the first technique failed so you move to another. For instance we practice shomenuchi sankajo ichi as a failed ikkajo ichi where uke starts to escape forward.

We also occasionaly do a nice set where you start with shihonage, take uke down gently and they roll around out of the lock so you change to kotegeishi, they then spin out on the floor again and then you finish with ikkajo, or iriminage.

I like these sets for several reasons, the main one being how you get a sense of 'waiting' for uke at each change. It becomes very apparent how your timing is very dependent upon uke.

Nice topic.
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Old 06-20-2002, 08:55 AM   #3
akiy
 
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I think practicing these kinds of henkawaza is important in one's aikido growth. The main points that I try to emphasize when I'm doing them is pretty much the same as when I do a "normal" technique -- keep things flowing, stay away from muscling things, and do what's appropriate at the time (by "listening" to uke).

I find that jiyuwaza (any attack, any technique) practice is one of the best ways to get a feel for things like this. Of course, doing a formal "sequence" of techniques is good kihon practice for henkawaza; a jiyuwaza environment, when done properly (without people trying to force any technique, for instance) has been a very rich and "nutritious" way for me to cultivate the ability to switch from one technique to another when necessary.

-- Jun

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Old 06-20-2002, 09:47 AM   #4
SeiserL
 
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In Tenshinkai Aikido, Sensei Phong often starts us with one technique which meets resistance as ususal, then a variation if its meets resistance someplace else. Combinations and counters are a part of our everyday training curriculm.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 06-20-2002, 10:23 AM   #5
Choku Tsuki
 
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Thumbs down henkawaza

It's satisfying to see a natural progression of one technique into a fallback technique, predicated by uke doing something "unexpected," for example letting go of the "wrong" hand (ryokatatori becomes katatori so the kotegaeshi becomes ikkyo) or grabbing with the free hand (in this example, udekimonage evolves into jujinage), to name just two.

Henkawaza when precipitated by atemi, is a near perfect expression of the heart of aikido.

--Chuck

P.S. no "IMHO"; of course this is my opinion! Goes without saying...
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Old 06-20-2002, 11:39 AM   #6
Doug Pichen
Dojo: Tohkon Judo Academy
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In Daito-Ryu we do a nice little thing we like to call The Circle of Death. Basically one guy in the middle 3 or 4 guys can attack him any way they want.

The object is not just to do good techniques, but the object is to control uki's fall in such a way so that the next attacker has to attack you the way you want him too.

You have to be able to look at the big picture and decide how by using one technique gets you in position to use another technique on another uki, and so on and so on.

In essence by controlling where uki is, we are able to flow one technique into another.
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Old 06-20-2002, 02:45 PM   #7
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
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What happens next?

Music

Yep, Music.

One technique flows into another, without thought, without trying, and suddenly we have five, six, or seven different techniques combined into one flowing motion.

Just like music, poetry, or even a well written paper, the flow is the most difficult thing to attain.

Yeah, I think after you get bored with one or two combinations, and you can safely control the motion of uke with transitional flow, then you will begin to see the infinity of combinations most teachers talk about.

How many times have you slipped while doing what was instruced by the teacher and gone into something else to get a simular motion that gives the impression of completeing a motion simular to whatever the rest of the class is practicing?

Sometimes? Never?

Well, maybe you should change the focus of your studys, rearrange your priorities for acquiring skills? The mistakes sometimes are the best lessons to be able to regain your footing, or regain control of a technique gone wrong.

So, it is a beautiful thing to see the transitional flow, but that is merely another concept to work on in your training.

This all makes me want to bang the drum about taking into Aikido many of the concepts of Wally Jay Jujitsu, which quite easily defeat grappling, or ground fighting ... putting that baby to bed. But that study is up to you, if and when you get comfortable with the basic Aikido techniques and making them flow ... one into another.
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Old 06-21-2002, 09:18 AM   #8
Mares
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Re: Combination Techniques

Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Tan
The other day during practice, our sensei started teaching combinations of different Aikido techniques.

He started of doing something like a one-handed shihonage-ura from a katate-dori-gaku-hammi attack, and then adding a follow up technique such as kategashi/kokyu-nage/kaiten-nage/etc as uke spun out of the shihonage position. (God, this is hard to describe! )

In fact I have seen 1 time where he combined 3 techniques together (ikko-shihonage-iriminage). Has anybody else seen or practiced combinations of Aikido techniques in their dojo? What other combinations have you seen or practiced?
Takemusu Aikido

Regards

Michael
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Old 06-22-2002, 11:10 PM   #9
fjcsuper
 
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Hi!

I have seen combinations of techniques done by my sensei, while he was demonstrating ikkyo to us. He said that these simple actions can lead to many different endings, (Its the beginners' class) and its essential to get the footwork and movement right.

He then performed something like (shomenuchi)ikkyo/kotegashi and some other techniques that looked impressive, but i do not know their names.

Another one looked like when sensei is finishing the ikkyo with uke's arm being almost in control, but bent, instead of straight like in an arm bar, then sensei reverses the direction and throws uke backwards. Sorry if my description sucks.

It is inevitable.
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Old 06-23-2002, 12:48 AM   #10
Chris Tan
Dojo: Aikido Shinju-Kai
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Like some of the replies here, I personally like the flowing motion of combination techniques and how it helps to develop the timing of my techniques. It is also a valuable tool in teaching how various techniques can flow from 1 initial technique. IMO, this is useful for building up to jiyuwaza and randori practice.

I did however hear from my instructor, that it is always better to "finish" off one's opponent with 1 technique rather than with many techniques. Reason being that you are liable to have more mistakes and openings with combination techniques. Didn't O'Sensei (or one of the shihans) say something like "Practice each technique as if were the first and last time" ?

If our techniques/selection of techniques are correctly executed, surely we would not have to flow to another technique, right? Or is it the case where we should use the principle of harmonizing with our opponent's force to move into the "correct" technique?

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Old 06-23-2002, 07:06 PM   #11
efredeluces
Dojo: SBMA Aikido Dojo
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Like the other's reply here, I also had a series of trainings on combinations from simple 3 to complex like 8 to ten arts but first about the "Circle of Death" thing it should be called RANDORI coz thats the proper name and its performed with variants of 3 ukes to as much as the nage can muster.

Now back to the topic simple combinations may start from either katate dori or munetsuki, the arts may vary from nikyo then ikyo, move to sankyo then a nage can be applied either reversed (otoshi) or forward like a zempo nage throw.

If you have enough time you may experiment on combinations just remember the possible art you can apply on your current body position.

Quote:
Patient is a virtue
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Old 06-23-2002, 07:19 PM   #12
SeiserL
 
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Sensei Phong, of Tenshinkai Aikido, is scheduled to be featured in the October 2002 issue of Martial Arts and Combat Sports Magazine (the old Martial Arts Illustrated by C.F.Wong) doing combinations and counters.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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