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Old 10-04-2011, 01:09 PM   #26
Thomas Campbell
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

Quote:
Ting Piao wrote: View Post

Here is another clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdHoCspkphI of the semi-final of the TaiChi competition. .
Thanks for the clip, Ting Piao.

Same question asked about the clips in the original post: at what specific points in this video clip do you see visible evidence of use of internal strength? Where one opponent so clearly dominates (in this clip, the gentleman in black), it's not necessarily any easier to distinguish exactly what's happening than with two more evenly-matched opponents.
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:44 PM   #27
hughrbeyer
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

Jeez, did they have to put the ref in an Elvis suit? Makes the whole thing look like WWF.

Have a look at the throw at 2 minutes in. I like that one because there's so little going on. Attempt that move on anyone, much less a top-level competitor, and he'll just drop his arm and sock you with the other one. Instead, the guy in black creates a connection and drops his opponent with no external movement.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:02 PM   #28
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Why is it that the posters here over the years; have never and I mean...NEVER.... acknowledge the reports of experienced grapplers and MMA people who have stated that this feels different? When presented, they are ignored. Why? Because frankly, the discussions with certain people are no longer discussions at all. They are statements of disbelief for the sake of disbelief only, that stand in the face of all reports to the contrary.
Maybe because all those statements were not made by world class/olympic/professional players.

People like Budd, Amdur, Abrams, Ledyard, etc are undoubtly people worth listening to but, with all due respect, they are not winning consistently matches at the top levels of the grappling sports or being hired to coach olympic wrestling/judo teams or pro mma fighters (afaik).

Does that mean their statements lack value?, of course not, in fact they have a lot of value in their respective fields of expertise but statements about the usefulness of IT in combat sports made by the top people in that field is what I've missed.

Would you mind to point me (the resident intellectually dishonest disbeliever) the statements about this issue made by top caliber combat sport players (olympic team judo/wrestling medalists, bjj world or pan-am champions, ufc winners...) or their coaches.

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Old 10-04-2011, 02:11 PM   #29
Thomas Campbell
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

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Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
Have a look at the throw at 2 minutes in. . . . , the guy in black creates a connection and drops his opponent with no external movement.
Thanks. I like that one. Black does move externally, but like you point out he creates a connection and drops Red almost straight down. The connection Black creates controls or at least inhibits Red's free (left) arm.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:46 PM   #30
bob_stra
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

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Thomas Campbell wrote: View Post
. . . at what points in these clips do you see CZQ using "internal" strength? What visible indications are there of use of IS in these specific clips?

Thanks. I'm trying to educate myself in perusing video material purporting to demonstrate internal strength, whether teacher with compliant student or non-cooperative engagement.
Aside from anything else, IHTBF is a round about way of saying "if you've experienced it before, you know it when you see it again".

If you think about it, the notion of IHTBF should be simple, common-sense.

To really belabour the point, consider learning to play tennis. When you first start off, your skill isn't that high, so watching video of Nadal vs Fedora isn't that illuminating. Often, you're not quite sure why something has happened or it may look hoaky ("oh come on! if he just ran for it")

Later on, as you play matches and accumulate skill, you can begin to discern some things about why player Nadal serves the way he does, the kind of shots he selects, his temprament and the like. Pretty soon, you can tell when someone is a good tennis player, is athletic but clueless, has never played before etc.

In other words, there are certain "tells" in skilled performance. Internal strength is a skilled performance (albeit a hard to discern one, especially without IHTBF), equal part conditioning (which allows you to do some unusual things) and skill (applications of said conditioning).

In other words, a "strength-skill".

To give a better idea of this strength skill idea, lets set CZQ aside for a moment and look at this

http://vimeo.com/7818724

The clip in itself isn't particularly impressive (although it is a more reasonable approximation of sparring) but it features a number of tells.

For example, at 0:25, you can something fairly interesting. Blue is providing a kind of transparent structure which (a) has fooled white into thinking 'aha, I have him: attack!" and (b) misreading this, allows white to throw himself.

In other words, what you're seeing is a non-telegraphic blending of two forces through the use of a properly conditioned body: an event reliant on conditioning and skill. Thus, it appears that Blue has generated a large force to shove black back that far. Actually, if you watch it again a few times, you'll see blue isn't doing that at all. There are other fun things to see in this clip, too.

With that kind of analysis in mind, go back to the CZQ clips and take a fresh look. Notice that there are portions wherein he seems unusually strong (for the position he's in), able to generate strikes that cause larger-then-expected results, absorb hits, lift and throw without telegraphing etc.

Last edited by bob_stra : 10-04-2011 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:02 PM   #31
DH
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

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Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Maybe because all those statements were not made by world class/olympic/professional players.
People like Budd, Amdur, Abrams, Ledyard, etc are undoubtly people worth listening to but, with all due respect, they are not winning consistently matches at the top levels of the grappling sports or being hired to coach olympic wrestling/judo teams or pro mma fighters (afaik).

Does that mean their statements lack value?, of course not, in fact they have a lot of value in their respective fields of expertise but statements about the usefulness of IT in combat sports made by the top people in that field is what I've missed.

Would you mind to point me (the resident intellectually dishonest disbeliever) the statements about this issue made by top caliber combat sport players (olympic team judo/wrestling medalists, bjj world or pan-am champions, ufc winners...) or their coaches.
I'm not talking about Olympic level players either and never have. I am talking about competitors with established fight records as well as grapplers of all types who...with all due respect...are on a different level then the normal martial artists I meet. It is those men- who can fight and who have felt it and sparred with us who have noted IP/aiki is different and feels different than the ordinary way someone delivers power and moves and offers distinct advantages. And some of those sparing sessions have been done in open rooms.
Interestingly, you attempted yet another tactic or ploy to up the anti to world class figthers to vet or destroy the validity of a method while not using the same standard to completely discredit aikido. The reason I stopped talking to many of you is that you continue to mix up two very different topics into one in order to try every perceivable angle to just be contrary, against all logic. It has lost credibility as a debating point. It is functionally dishonest. I leave it up to you to decide why that is.

On it's own, IP can be tested and felt, but it is a totally different discussion of whether or not I or someone else can fight. One, does not validate or invalidate the other. So discussions like this are all but meaningless.
Let's cut to the chase. There is no interest in truth or impartial experience and reporting by hundreds of qualified people. The honest truth is that there is group of people that think IP is B.S., something that you already know or is marginally useful... plain and simple. I don't think a thousand Martial artists all stating the same thing would ever convince you of anything...why...because you don't want it to be true, for prejudicial reasons past logical examination.
Dan
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:50 AM   #32
worrier
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

Thanks for the videos, guys. Really cool.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:17 AM   #33
ewolput
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

In randori (Tomiki Style) most of the players are technique and muscle players. Some of them are very strong and skillfull. There are others who are fighting from a body structure, the body act as one piece, the arms and legs are very flexible and their skill is keeping a vertical and mobile posture and together with the ability to extend power in a "accepted" technique, they have some advantage against technique/muscle fighters. Of course if your mind is not set for fighting you will loose the fight. The problem with most of the people is, they start too early with randori and they compensate the lack of body structure and no extension of power with muscle strength. It is very difficult to change muscle people into body structure people.
At the website of Waseda University, Teruo Fujiwara wrote something about the proces of training :

The time when I studied under Tomiki-shihan in 1956-1958 is called 'the age of Judo Exercise'. The main ways of moving the body and hands were picked from Aiki skills, then simplified and abstracted and organized as the exercise forms. These forms are 'Judo Exercise'. The plan of making 'Judo Exercise' is that by doing them repeatedly, we can learn Aiki as if we learned hundreds of thousands of skills which can benefit our bodies in a positive fashion. . 'Judo Exercise' is the valuable legacy of Tomiki-sensei.
 Tomiki-sensei wrote in the pamphlet Judo Exercise (published as the text of regular subject physical education in April 1957) that he made 'Judo Exercise' as the way to practice Aiki, which couldn't be a sport, and that when practicing aikido, we must study for correctness and beauty, rather than strength. That is why our time is called 'the age of Judo Exercise'.
 I could study the beauty of Aiki following Tomiki-sensei without hesitating but there were many students interested in the strength of Aiki. It may be natural for young men who would like to study martial arts. Tomiki-sensei said that they must satisfy their desire for strength by practicing the other skills in 'Judo Exercise' but they didn't always follow his suggestion.
 In 1958, Aikido Club which was previously not an official club (in early times, Aikido Club was a part of Judo Club. Tomiki-sensei was also the shihan of Judo Club) was granted official status in the Department of Sport and Physical education at Waseda University. As a condition of becoming an official club, Aikido Club was required to practice as a competitioncompetitive sport. There is no doubt Tomiki-sensei was considering how to develop aikido into a competitioncompetitive sport as the ultimate goal, yet, he did not expect the situation to become an urgent matter. It was this requirement that forced Tomiki aikido to step into 'the age of sport: Randori'.

 Today Sport Aikido is moving toward completion step by step. However, the skill level of Sport Aikido is not the same as our 'age of Judo Exercise'. While we must accept that wrong forms will happen in sport, Randori, 'Judo Exercise' is useful as the model for checking and correcting them. I think that such a correction will bring sport Randori higher, with beauty and grace. For the beginner, 'Judo Exercise' is the proper guidance of skills. I think it is necessary that beginners learn to perform the correct postures and beautiful movements by training in 'Judo Exercise'. This method will help them avoid incorrect forms in future Randori practice. .


Nothing new under the sun,
Eddy
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:21 AM   #34
hughrbeyer
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

Interesting comments on randori. My own feeling, looking back at my Tomiki days, is that randori was the main thing pointing away from being overly dependent on muscle strength. Maybe because we just used it as practice inside the dojo rather than as competition with other dojos, or maybe because my sensei was a sneaky bastard, but muscle never worked in randori. What worked best was to be there but not there, connected but offering no resistance your opponent could use and take advantage of.

Unfortunately I was too stupid at the time to really take advantage of the lesson.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:59 AM   #35
bob_stra
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

Quote:
Eddy Wolput wrote: View Post

[i]The time when I studied under Tomiki-shihan in 1956-1958 is called 'the age of Judo Exercise'. The main ways of moving the body and hands were picked from Aiki skills, then simplified and abstracted and organized as the exercise forms. These forms are 'Judo Exercise'.
[snip]
Yeah, it's an evocative quote. The "judo exercise" (dubbed judo taiso by some) have been a matter of discussion over the years at JF. One wonders why Tomiki didn't stick with Seiryoku Zen'yo Kokumin Taiiku , though ultimately such things are neither here nor there; both the Judo exercises and SZKT seem to have devolved into a kind of Dance-Dance revolution.

What could - potentially - be interesting - is to discuss how and why Tomiki chose the particular things he did for the Judo Exercises, given his intention was to embody Aiki in them.

YMMV
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Old 10-05-2011, 11:43 AM   #36
ewolput
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

Some years ago an old movie (early fifties) of Kenji Tomiki appeared and this movie gave a shock to one of the shihan of the JAA (Japan Aikido Association). In this movie Kenji Tomiki was demonstrating solo exercises which were different from what JAA people are doing. Also the section on basic partner movements and techniques are closer to Ueshiba prewar style. Tomiki's movements are not dance movements but are related to the techniques he was doing. The Seiryoku Zen'yo Kokumin Taiiku looks maybe similar but aiki seems not to be included in this Judo kata. Refering to Teruo Fujiwara, it seems Tomiki wanted to include aiki into a training system for randori. Looking at most of the modern Tomiki aikido players, there is no aiki. Only the first generation students of Tomiki after the war studied these exercises. The later generations changed these exercises and ommited the aiki. The last 5 yrs some instructors of Tomiki aikido discovered again these exercises and picked up the first generation students who still practised this. If this can lead to bring aiki again into Tomiki's aikido, the future will tell you. Recently one of these students died, Senta Yamada a student of Tomiki but also of Morihei Ueshiba. His aikido was different from modern Tomiki aikido people. He always said to do solo basic exercises and partner exercises before you can study techniques.
Not so many students understood very well what he said and most of the students just copied the movements without knowing what they are doing.

Just some info on Tomiki's aiki-do

Eddy
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:35 PM   #37
Ernesto Lemke
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

Hello Eddy, thank you for that information. Very interesting. I take it this is the clip in question. At least the 2nd part notes "Aiki no waza" are featured.
As you say, the future will tell. I'm curious how they will attempt to 'revitalize' this as you mentioned not many students getting it in the first place and just copied the movements. If you don't mind me asking, is that your personal opinion or something Yamada Sensei said? Either way, it sorta implies the knowledge still exists within Tomiki circles, albeit it's maybe scattered or scarce. I'm not that familiar with Tomiki style aikido but would be interested seeing this aspect appear, be it now or in the future...
Best,

Ernesto
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:04 PM   #38
phitruong
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

watching these clips made me itch for a fight. let me at 'em. i can do better than those clowns. ya, let me at 'em. on second thought, let Budd at 'em. no point of me getting hurt first.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:56 PM   #39
ewolput
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

Quote:
Ernesto Lemke wrote: View Post
If you don't mind me asking, is that your personal opinion or something Yamada Sensei said?
Best,
I see a lot of people who studied with Senta Yamada with bad posture, no natural movement,.... but I also see a few who understand what he taught. So, my personal opinion is that most of them just copied what he tried to teach without understanding or without regular practice.

Eddy
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:18 AM   #40
PhillyKiAikido
 
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

Quote:
Thomas Campbell wrote: View Post
Thanks for the clip, Ting Piao.

Same question asked about the clips in the original post: at what specific points in this video clip do you see visible evidence of use of internal strength? Where one opponent so clearly dominates (in this clip, the gentleman in black), it's not necessarily any easier to distinguish exactly what's happening than with two more evenly-matched opponents.
Thomas,

About the IS in those videos, you can refer to some previous good posts in this forum by Mr. Mike Sigman. The videos are illustrations of what he wrote.

Addition to what others have pointed out, I just want to throw my 2 cents here for thoughts and discussions:

1) IS is the whole body strength, not the limb or shoulder or chest strength. It's from the Dantian/Hara/Center/OnePoint, so the spine must be straight and upright all the time in order for the strength to come out. From the video, we can see the posture of the gentleman in black is always straight whenever he moves, round-kicks, stands with one or two legs, ...

2) IS is a lot more powerful than ES. Watch this video of the same person in the competition, you'll get a impression of his power http://youtu.be/QpdzhYjx_zw .

Enjoy!

Ting
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:44 AM   #41
Lee Salzman
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

Quote:
Ting Piao wrote: View Post
Addition to what others have pointed out, I just want to throw my 2 cents here for thoughts and discussions:

1) IS is the whole body strength, not the limb or shoulder or chest strength. It's from the Dantian/Hara/Center/OnePoint, so the spine must be straight and upright all the time in order for the strength to come out. From the video, we can see the posture of the gentleman in black is always straight whenever he moves, round-kicks, stands with one or two legs, ...
Does the spine need to be straight, or upright, really? Can't we imagine a connection that can carry through a flexible spine? Nay, not carried through, but actually generated by the spine? If the connectivity of the spine was dependent on a rigid position, could you legitimately say you are moving from it? The rabbit hole is deep, but it ain't just straight down...
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:35 PM   #42
DH
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

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Ting Piao wrote: View Post
1) IS is the whole body strength, not the limb or shoulder or chest strength. It's from the Dantian/Hara/Center/OnePoint, so the spine must be straight and upright all the time in order for the strength to come out. From the video, we can see the posture of the gentleman in black is always straight whenever he moves, round-kicks, stands with one or two legs, ...
Enjoy!
Ting
That's simply B.S. No, I don't really care who told you that. There are training tools and advantages to an upright posture, but once you understand connection and have it for real, the whole body can be fluid and retain and issue power. Even going into and out of the upright posture can create power.
Worse it can be used against you very easily in a number of martial venues by more experienced people. I caution people to understand that some of these methods being taught by people who do not now how to fight have some pretty funny flaws in them that would NEVER be tolerated by most intelligent fighters.

There is a more complete model for fighters and weapons people to consider but since everyone gets an "A" in budo land or they get sensitive and feel they are entitled to be equal to everyone else's hard work without equal time or effort... you'll have to discover these things on your own, I guess.
Dan
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:53 PM   #43
Lee Salzman
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Even going into and out of the upright posture can create power.
You say that as if there are not entire arts based around that singular concept.
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:21 PM   #44
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

Mr Harden, Mr Salzman,

Thanks both of your for the comments that are thought-provoking and eye-opening. As a beginner, I hope to learn as much as I can from your posts.

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
That's simply B.S. No, I don't really care who told you that.
Now I know my third grade PE teacher lied to me.

Quote:
There are training tools and advantages to an upright posture, but once you understand connection and have it for real, the whole body can be fluid and retain and issue power. Even going into and out of the upright posture can create power.
Totally agree. Is that called HunYuanLi(浑圆力)?

Quote:
Worse it can be used against you very easily in a number of martial venues by more experienced people. I caution people to understand that some of these methods being taught by people who do not now how to fight have some pretty funny flaws in them that would NEVER be tolerated by most intelligent fighters.

There is a more complete model for fighters and weapons people to consider but since everyone gets an "A" in budo land or they get sensitive and feel they are entitled to be equal to everyone else's hard work without equal time or effort... you'll have to discover these things on your own, I guess.
Dan
Sincerely hope to have the previlige to be in your class some day to study from you.

This topic is interesting. I wonder if any of you can shed some more insights from your (expert) perspective on IS in the video, that would be very helpful for us beginners to get a taste of the concept of Aiki/IS.

Thank you!

Ting
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Old 10-06-2011, 05:47 PM   #45
Thomas Campbell
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

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Ting Piao wrote: View Post
Thomas,

About the IS in those videos, you can refer to some previous good posts in this forum by Mr. Mike Sigman. The videos are illustrations of what he wrote.
Looking back, it seems that Mr. Mike Sigman made several thousand posts in the past on this forum, and it would be more than a little difficult to sift through his remarks to find any relating to the specific video clips that you reference in the original post on this thread. While Mr. Sigman's observations about these clips would be welcome, the original questions to you still stand:

At what specific points in this video clip do YOU see visible evidence of use of internal strength? Where one opponent so clearly dominates (in this clip, the gentleman in black), it's not necessarily any easier to distinguish exactly what's happening than with two more evenly-matched opponents.

Quote:
2) IS is a lot more powerful than ES. Watch this video of the same person in the competition, you'll get a impression of his power http://youtu.be/QpdzhYjx_zw .
Enjoy!

Ting
I did enjoy this clip and agree that your man seems like a powerful exponent of Chen taijiquan. Thanks.
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:31 PM   #46
MM
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

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Eddy Wolput wrote: View Post
Recently one of these students died, Senta Yamada a student of Tomiki but also of Morihei Ueshiba. His aikido was different from modern Tomiki aikido people. He always said to do solo basic exercises and partner exercises before you can study techniques.
Not so many students understood very well what he said and most of the students just copied the movements without knowing what they are doing.

Just some info on Tomiki's aiki-do

Eddy
An interesting quote from Senta Yamada:

"In the early days at Wakayama Ken I thought I had learned many things well, but one evening after a day of hard practice, Professor Uyeshiba explained that whilst my movements were technically good, they were not aikido. Physical excellence was not enough, I had technique, but not art. To be truly successful I must become fully in accord with spirit for it is spirit that carries the mind and controls the body."

From The Principles and Practice of Aikido by Senta Yamada. 1966.
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:37 PM   #47
DH
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

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Mark Murray wrote: View Post
An interesting quote from Senta Yamada:

"In the early days at Wakayama Ken I thought I had learned many things well, but one evening after a day of hard practice, Professor Uyeshiba explained that whilst my movements were technically good, they were not aikido. Physical excellence was not enough, I had technique, but not art. To be truly successful I must become fully in accord with spirit for it is spirit that carries the mind and controls the body."

From The Principles and Practice of Aikido by Senta Yamada. 1966.
Translate that as "Move with intent." and "When one thing moves- everything moves." and it might actually have meaning.
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:26 AM   #48
gregstec
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Translate that as "Move with intent." and "When one thing moves- everything moves." and it might actually have meaning.
Well, that was what he said in a martial context - he just used his standard esoteric delivery - problem is a lot of folks take his words and apply their own definition to the meaning of them out of context, and the next thing you know is that the mental intent spirit energy thing has turned into a form of a religious way of life that exists somewhere on an ethereal astral plane of existence

Greg
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:48 PM   #49
Michael Varin
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
Quote:
Mark Murray wrote:
An interesting quote from Senta Yamada:

"In the early days at Wakayama Ken I thought I had learned many things well, but one evening after a day of hard practice, Professor Uyeshiba explained that whilst my movements were technically good, they were not aikido. Physical excellence was not enough, I had technique, but not art. To be truly successful I must become fully in accord with spirit for it is spirit that carries the mind and controls the body."

From The Principles and Practice of Aikido by Senta Yamada. 1966.
Translate that as "Move with intent." and "When one thing moves- everything moves." and it might actually have meaning.
It had more meaning before your "translation."

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:54 AM   #50
Michael Varin
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Re: Internal Strength in sparring

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
While I agree, I would also add commentary for certain detractors that's probably also not a good idea for those with just Aikido backgrounds to post vids of their own in house experiments of what they think "weapons" were and are and then argue with those who really do know what they're talking about either.
Fair enough, but totally irrelevant to this thread.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
I don't contribute much on these types of threads because frankly I see an intellectual dishonesty in the discourse. I no longer believe there is an interest in obtaining any objective truth with certain groups and individuals. It is agenda driven rhetoric and nothing else.
Interesting view. It could equally be said to be true about you.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
Interestingly, you attempted yet another tactic or ploy to up the anti to world class figthers to vet or destroy the validity of a method while not using the same standard to completely discredit aikido. The reason I stopped talking to many of you is that you continue to mix up two very different topics into one in order to try every perceivable angle to just be contrary, against all logic. It has lost credibility as a debating point. It is functionally dishonest. I leave it up to you to decide why that is.

On it's own, IP can be tested and felt, but it is a totally different discussion of whether or not I or someone else can fight. One, does not validate or invalidate the other. So discussions like this are all but meaningless.
Let's cut to the chase. There is no interest in truth or impartial experience and reporting by hundreds of qualified people. The honest truth is that there is group of people that think IP is B.S., something that you already know or is marginally useful... plain and simple. I don't think a thousand Martial artists all stating the same thing would ever convince you of anything...why...because you don't want it to be true, for prejudicial reasons past logical examination.
Really?

I feel like you have mixed up those same two topics when it is to your benefit and tried to separate them when it worked for you as well.

And really, Dan, don't you take any responsibility for the tone of the "IP/IT/IS" discussions here on AikiWeb?

I mean, you have been probably the most vociferous poster. And you were the one who started talking about 350 hp washing machine agitators, putting people in hospitals, and "vetting."

But I'm really glad you're here, because, you know, that Saito was a real dummy and despite spending 25 years with Morihei Ueshiba and being his closest student and attendant to his family and guardian of his shrine, he just never understood anything the old man said. Luckily we have you, who as far as I know, speaks neither Japanese nor Chinese to interpret all of Morihei's writings.

I have absolutely nothing against you or any other person pursuing "IP/IT/IS," but here's the thing. . .

Neither Demetrio nor myself started a thread called "internal strength in sparring" then proceeded to post no videos featuring sparring. Personally, I don't care about Olympians or world class MMA guys. I just want to see some video of what you and your people are doing, but none are forthcoming.

I would've been satisfied with some legit push hands videos, which seem to be fairly plentiful on YouTube . . .

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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