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Old 09-11-2011, 09:30 AM   #1
Relaxed Aikidoka
Dojo: Butoku-Ryu Aikijujutsu
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Dead Problem with another aikidoka.

I've looked on aikiweb and have seen people that have come against aikidoka's that just WANT to have a problem with you.
I am having this problem. An aikidoka is being hostile to me.
(not openly)

He criticises me but refuses to aid me. He won't pair up with me because I was a bad uke with him and i'm trying to overcome that. I constantly try to go against his hatred and attempt to make him see reason, to get him to partner up with me and forget this hatred.

It HONESTLY makes me sad he won't just STOP this nonsense!

I quote this from him- "I am there to help others learn but primarily im there to further my own knowledge."

What do you all think? What can I do? I want to restore our friendship.
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:07 AM   #2
dps
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Let it go.

Ignore his behavior

Some people are not worth the time, eneergy and effort to get along with.

You are not there to make friends.

"I am there to help others learn but primarily im there to further my own knowledge." should also be why you are there.

dps
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:49 AM   #3
Relaxed Aikidoka
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

"You are not there to make friends."

I thank you for your input but I am not there to have enemies either. Everyone in the dojo should work together. It's easy for you to say "ignore him" isn't it? Even if I did ignore him, I feel empty within. I need to make peace with him. I repeat, how do I do it?
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:58 AM   #4
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Hi Adam:
I have had a similar experience. I have looked within to see my part. I have talked to someone about my part and sought my teacher's counsel. I have changed a bit. I have let go of the results. The situation has changed a bit.
I am still a little uncomfortbale but I do feel better.
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:06 AM   #5
Hellis
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Adam

I doubt you will resolve your differences in the dojo.
I am sure you are like most club members and have a beer at the end of the night ? Ask the guy to join you in a quiet pint, ask him outright what problems he has with you, tell him your problems and hopefully you can shake hands. If he is unchanged - ask him for the money for the beer.

Henry Ellis
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:26 AM   #6
Janet Rosen
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Henry's approach is a good one. If the fellow isn't interested, then consider reframing your original statement of the issues>
He has a problem with you as you were/something you did.
You cannot control how people feel.
All you can control are your own actions and feelings.
1. You can make yourself a better uke, the best uke you can be based on your training and attitude each day.
2. You can detach yourself from your desire or need for his friendship or his approval and focus on your own training.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:32 AM   #7
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Keep him as enemy.

Having enemies is what make one to appreciate friends.

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Old 09-11-2011, 11:59 AM   #8
Rob Watson
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Punch him in the face and mention "a hole in his knowledge". You just are trying to help after all.

One of the George Ledyard type punches that makes it clear to all that one has been punched in the face without actually having to punch them in the face kind of punches. Regular punches work too but tend to get blood everywhere. If they don't appreciate either kind of punch then they really are not there to improve their knowledge and so have little to add to yours.

Of course, if they won't train with you then you will have to resort to jumping out of bushes and scare the crap out of them and shout 'another hole' . When you come to the realization that you have become a stalker you might want to tone it down a bit. Then you can just call him 'hole' in a fraternal kind of way as a little aiki nickname. Just trying to help after all.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:15 PM   #9
SteliosPapadakis
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

In such topics, one should have been able to hear both parties. What you consider aggressive or offensive behaviour can be seen similar-wise from the other party. I cannot suggest an objective point of view without hearing the other bloke.
No matter and supposing you are 100% right:
Βe straight with him after class, in a calm and relaxed way state your points. No matter what, you will have been made clear on your intentions and feelings. WHich is always a good thing.
See how it goes for a lesson or two.
Ifr there is no improvement or change in approach, talk to your sensei or dojo-cho. See if they can help but let them hear both sides.
Be well

PS. i have had a similar case in our dojo but i was found on the other shore of the story. A new student, coming from another dojo/system/approach though he knew all about Aikido. Me being a 1st Kyu, him a 6th. He would always stop in the middle of the exercise to instruct me, point out my mistakes etc. I always tried to show and (why not) teach him a couple of things, always with my Sensei observing and nodding in approval of my approach. The guy would not stop and even critisise the way the Sensei corrected his mistakes. It was all hopeless...Finally he decided (in everybody's favour) to try another dojo. From friends there we learnt he kept up to his habbit, critisizing and correcting all students and said that we were bullying him ( ! ), arrogant, aggresive and the sort...
Go figure...
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:23 PM   #10
Relaxed Aikidoka
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

I thank you all for your answers so far, what I have done myself is confront him during lesson and ask him to be my partner. He declined, I repeated, he declined and moved with someone else. So the option of talking to him my self has gone. Next stage is to resort to doing what an adult does with two children. In this case, me and my enemy are the children. Sensei will be the adult. Is this a sound plan?

EDIT: He's also sent messages online which means he cannot bear a face to face encounter. Where as I am willing to do that, he has backed out.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:43 PM   #11
Shadowfax
 
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Just because a person is not your friend does not mean that they must therefore be counted as an enemy.

If he does not want to train with you then let it be. It's his problem. People who try to hard to force someone to like them tend to in actuality push them in the opposite direction. If you just leave him alone you might find that things change over time.
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Old 09-11-2011, 04:22 PM   #12
graham christian
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Quote:
Adam Frank wrote: View Post
I thank you all for your answers so far, what I have done myself is confront him during lesson and ask him to be my partner. He declined, I repeated, he declined and moved with someone else. So the option of talking to him my self has gone. Next stage is to resort to doing what an adult does with two children. In this case, me and my enemy are the children. Sensei will be the adult. Is this a sound plan?

EDIT: He's also sent messages online which means he cannot bear a face to face encounter. Where as I am willing to do that, he has backed out.
If he shuns you and won't train with you then it looks like you are therefore a problem to him. Seeing him as a problem is probably your problem.

Try seeing him as something else other than a problem.

Regards G.
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Old 09-11-2011, 04:28 PM   #13
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Quote:
Adam Frank wrote: View Post
I thank you all for your answers so far, what I have done myself is confront him during lesson and ask him to be my partner. He declined, I repeated, he declined and moved with someone else. So the option of talking to him my self has gone. Next stage is to resort to doing what an adult does with two children. In this case, me and my enemy are the children. Sensei will be the adult. Is this a sound plan?

EDIT: He's also sent messages online which means he cannot bear a face to face encounter. Where as I am willing to do that, he has backed out.
Dear Adam,
Why bother with the guy?It seems to me you cannot see clearly that the guy does not want anything to do with you.You need to face facts, stop being dumb.Your sensei has better things to do than waste time with your problem.I take it you are out of short pants?
Cheers, joe
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Old 09-11-2011, 04:33 PM   #14
sakumeikan
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
If he shuns you and won't train with you then it looks like you are therefore a problem to him. Seeing him as a problem is probably your problem.

Try seeing him as something else other than a problem.

Regards G.
Dear Graham,
See the guy as something else???What do you suggest , a barman at the local, the taxi driver, or what???Your too much of counsellor or a shrink. Keep it simple.Unless the two guys gel , they should avoid each other .Simples [Meerkat expression].
Cheers, Joe.
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Old 09-11-2011, 04:51 PM   #15
SeiserL
 
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Enter and blend with his unwillingness to train with you by letting it go and train with others.

Happens all the time.

No partnering, no problem. Right?

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 09-11-2011, 05:14 PM   #16
Basia Halliop
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Quote:
If he does not want to train with you then let it be. It's his problem. People who try to hard to force someone to like them tend to in actuality push them in the opposite direction. If you just leave him alone you might find that things change over time.
Yes, leave the guy alone. Be pleasant when you do interact with him, but don't push him to be 'friends'.

For me, I really think if I repeatedly and honestly asked someone to leave me alone and they didn't, I'd find it very very UN-friendly of them to not respect my request. It would NOT make me like them, it would make me feel like they were being really rude and disrespectful to me and didn't care about how I felt or what I wanted, only what THEY wanted themselves..

If you let him be, be neighbourly to him but mostly leave him alone, and maybe try to truly change whatever behaviour it was that made him dislike you in the first place (depending what it was), maybe in time things will change. Or maybe not, but in any case you'll both have a better time.

Last edited by Basia Halliop : 09-11-2011 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 09-11-2011, 05:44 PM   #17
crbateman
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Just do the best that you can in your own right. It takes work on the part of both to forge a friendship, or even just to cooperate, and if he truly does not want it, it won't happen just from your efforts alone. So live with it and focus on something else. If he's being that tough on you, your instructor will probably notice. Don't confront; don't be an irritant; just be nice, and do the best you can.
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Old 09-11-2011, 05:51 PM   #18
graham christian
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Graham,
See the guy as something else???What do you suggest , a barman at the local, the taxi driver, or what???Your too much of counsellor or a shrink. Keep it simple.Unless the two guys gel , they should avoid each other .Simples [Meerkat expression].
Cheers, Joe.
See him as a challenge. See him as someone to train with at another time. Simples.
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Old 09-11-2011, 06:37 PM   #19
Gorgeous George
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Graham,
See the guy as something else???What do you suggest , a barman at the local, the taxi driver, or what???Your too much of counsellor or a shrink. Keep it simple.Unless the two guys gel , they should avoid each other .Simples [Meerkat expression].
Cheers, Joe.
Haha.

I agree with Joe: just ignore him.

I once went to a dojo where there was a beginner, who I saw grade for his 5th kyu, who actually repeatedly told me my ukemi was wrong when I trained with him (both before and after that grading); he also liked to flounce about before classes, 'throwing' his good friend (another beginner) with an air of effortless excellence.
Unbearable.
So I just ignored him whenever we had to pair up to train - pretended not to see him; looked around him; looked the other way for a partner, etc.

That's one advantage I think BJJ has: you have to back up your claims - none of this 'You're not doing it right.' shit; there's no pretence.
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Old 09-11-2011, 07:10 PM   #20
Walter Martindale
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Yeah, Doesn't want to practice with you? Don't practice with him. Practice with everyone else in the dojo, keep learning with everyone else. Eventually he may or may not decide he wants to practice with you. Whatever the case, look after yourself...

Control what you can, control how you respond to things you can't control, and learn to recognize the difference....
W
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:45 PM   #21
Mario Tobias
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

You can't please everybody. Try and you will fail. If you are not friends, at least you are not enemies.
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:51 PM   #22
Benjamin Mehner
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

Quote:
Mario Tobias wrote: View Post
You can't please everybody. Try and you will fail. If you are not friends, at least you are not enemies.
"...it's all right now, I learned my lesson well.
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself..."

I always think of this piece of lyrical wisdom when people make such statements. My father would call it hedonism, a Zen master (not calling myself one, I'm not) might call it truth.

Let silence be my mantra.
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Old 09-12-2011, 01:19 AM   #23
Tim Ruijs
 
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

The dojo should be a safe place to practise. That is a responsibility of everyone. When someone does not want to practise with you, you can try to talk to him/her about it. When that fails explain the situation to your teacher. He may then decide to talk to the both of you, or the individual alone.
The teacher should not allow for such a situation that brings tension/stress onto the tatami. Off course it all depends on the reason why he does not want to practise with you. Find that out...somehow...
Good luck

In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
www.aikido-makato.nl
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Old 09-12-2011, 05:55 AM   #24
dps
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

From the book; "Zen In The Martial Arts" by Joe Hyams,
page 39 to 40.

Following are snipets of a larger converstion Mr. Silliphant had with Bruce Lee and Joe Hyams.

"It is the most precious commodity we have.....I always view my time as divided into infinite moments or transactions or contracts. Anyone who steals my time is stealing my life because they are taking my existence from me.....As I get older I realize that time is the only thing I have left......I have limited my friends to those with whom time passes happily......The choice of how I spend my time is mine. and it is not dictated by social convention."

You are choosing to waste your time and the money you are paying to practice Aikido by letting this person steal your time.

djps
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Old 09-12-2011, 06:21 AM   #25
Basia Halliop
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Re: Problem with another aikidoka.

[quote]The dojo should be a safe place to practise. That is a responsibility of everyone. When someone does not want to practise with you, you can try to talk to him/her about it. When that fails explain the situation to your teacher. He may then decide to talk to the both of you, or the individual alone.
The teacher should not allow for such a situation that brings tension/stress onto the tatami. Off course it all depends on the reason why he does not want to practise with you. Find that out...somehow...
Good luck{/quote]

Hopefully the teacher will tell him to leave the guy alone. No one has the *right* to force another person to practice with them if they choose not to (and creating an environment where people can be forced to practice against their will is certainly not the recipe for 'safe practice'). The biggest 'situation that brings tension/stress onto the tatami' that I see here from what I can read is the continual harassment of someone who just wants to be left peacefully alone.
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