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Old 08-16-2011, 01:07 PM   #1
Marc Abrams
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grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Anybody heard of, or know of this teacher. Video clip certainly raises more questions that it answers.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a3Icah0xAc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuv3r...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fom93...eature=related

Looks like a shared delusional space to me, but I do keep an open mind. Would love to hear from someone who actually felt this stuff and was not a student of his.

Skeptically,

Marc Abrams
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Old 08-16-2011, 01:27 PM   #2
chillzATL
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

the only question it raises is why...

Your initial assumption is undoubtedly the correct one. At one point in the first link one of his uke stumbles, not because his balance was broken, but because he didn't step into the proper position to be "frozen" and has to right himself... SILLY.
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Old 08-16-2011, 02:23 PM   #3
Hellis
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Oh dear - I only watched the first video as at my time of life I have little time to waste...

Henry Ellis
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Old 08-16-2011, 03:57 PM   #4
Janet Rosen
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

{giggling madly} I can't get past the first one either, Henry...but maybe it was milk, cookies and naptime at the aikido daycare center?

Janet Rosen
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Old 08-16-2011, 04:05 PM   #5
Keith Larman
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHUSn...eature=related

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Old 08-16-2011, 04:11 PM   #6
Chris Li
 
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

FWIW:

http://www.aikido-meikakukai.com/index.html

Best,

Chris

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Old 08-16-2011, 04:11 PM   #7
Hellis
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
{giggling madly} I can't get past the first one either, Henry...but maybe it was milk, cookies and naptime at the aikido daycare center?
Janet

I thought the Aiki Ribbon dance video was the daftest thing I had ever seen in Aikido until I saw this video....Oh dear.
The one thing that I fail to understand is where do they find sttudents to take part in this stuff ??????

Henry Ellis
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Old 08-16-2011, 05:06 PM   #8
Howard Popkin
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

FWIW,

Maekawa was a student of Okamoto until 98 or so.

As of that time, he didn't posses the ability to freeze me in any posture what so ever.

Maybe he has trained with yoda since then.

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Old 08-16-2011, 05:29 PM   #9
Michael Hackett
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

I was very impressed with these demonstrations! How the uke could hold their uncomfortable positions for so long without moving was testimony to their discipline in spite of having full bladders from drinking the Kool Aid. Fabulous.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:48 PM   #10
crbateman
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

I'm just embarrassed for them.
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:30 PM   #11
grondahl
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Maybe the Aikikai should require some sort of contract with people before giving them say godan or highter.

Something in the line of: "I solemnly swear that I shall never be caught on video doing silly no-touch demonstrations"
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Old 08-17-2011, 12:38 AM   #12
Mark Freeman
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Quote:
Howard Popkin wrote: View Post

Maybe he has trained with yoda since then.

Joke you, maybe has he

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 08-17-2011, 06:40 AM   #13
Marc Abrams
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
Maybe the Aikikai should require some sort of contract with people before giving them say godan or highter.

Something in the line of: "I solemnly swear that I shall never be caught on video doing silly no-touch demonstrations"
Peter:

What if we think marketing......

We get a group together who do these remarkable things and form an Aiki Superheros pack design to bring peace to our evil world. We can develop a comic strip, movies, dolls,...... Move Over Steven ate-too-much Seagal, here comes the next wave of new students drawn to Aikido by our favorite super heros!!!!

Marc Abrams
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:20 AM   #14
Budd
 
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Peter:

What if we think marketing......

We get a group together who do these remarkable things and form an Aiki Superheros pack design to bring peace to our evil world. We can develop a comic strip, movies, dolls,...... Move Over Steven ate-too-much Seagal, here comes the next wave of new students drawn to Aikido by our favorite super heros!!!!

Marc Abrams
The sad thing is that would probably raise interest in dojos everywhere as a result *facepalm*
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:55 AM   #15
Marc Abrams
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
The sad thing is that would probably raise interest in dojos everywhere as a result *facepalm*
Budd:

I would take the chance of raising the interest so that people can have a realistic experience of what Aikido can be so that they can make decisions for themselves. I get tired of hearing prospective students ask if I do what Steven Seagal does. I always tell them that I never received my credit card with a blade built in so I have to do something different..... Imagine someone coming in and asking you if you are like their favorite superhero.....

Regards,

Marc Abrams
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:07 AM   #16
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Budd:

I would take the chance of raising the interest so that people can have a realistic experience of what Aikido can be so that they can make decisions for themselves. I get tired of hearing prospective students ask if I do what Steven Seagal does. I always tell them that I never received my credit card with a blade built in so I have to do something different..... Imagine someone coming in and asking you if you are like their favorite superhero.....

Regards,

Marc Abrams
So you're saying you can't break the wrist of an angry rasta coming at you with a cleaver?
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:08 AM   #17
DH
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Isn't it interesting how you -only- see this in arts that start with cooperation. Then the gradual grooming process begins, leading students into a belief and eventual "sensitivity" to what they are feeling that always.......always...leads to overreacting. Then they groom you to respond to visual cues. The process becomes self sustaining as the student swears that what he is feeling is really an energy and it's palpable. The process can be heady and feels good to be a part of, which draws them in deeper.
It's B.S. in that it will not work on the uninitiated, its real in that it has such a profound effect on those who got sucked into this behavior. The key is in watching the person who is attacking as the dynamics of his body changes. Remove the teachers from the video and watch the student and you see them go from attacking to receiving mode even before the attack (if there is even a legitimate one offered) is complete and doing these things to themselves. Normal people do not move and react this way. Trained fighters (budo people) will NEVER react this way.

What is rarely discussed is how that level of cooperation grooms the teacher as well.
More interesting is watching what happens to these teachers. Typically there is a sort of awe and no questions set up in the relationship. Then you see a veneration and deep respect "That only sensei can do it." last and most interesting is when these teachers are stopped or challenged. More often then not, you see them change into hard technique.
Why is that?
On cue, they go into hard, physical waza as if this some how validates this other crap they do. If this no contact stuff were real, why, under pressure do they regress to contact? You see this like clockwork. Like the sun coming up in the morning.
All this does for me is to not only invalidate what they are doing, but also their systems and them as teachers as well.
There is a video that appeared and then got removed; of a famous soft art guy who got into fight. It looked like two untrained high school kids brawling.

Is it fair to be just talking about this guy when we know so many others doing the same thing and worse? Should we name names of some very famous people and systems who do just that in order to level the field and be intellectually honest in our evaluations?

I think to truly stand in honest evaluation of others and our own place among them is a hard road. All is lost when we depend on the actions or reactions of the uke for anything. At that point we stop a deeper process. I bite my tongue continually with some things I see and hear. I could name about ten famous teachers who do similar things. I am hoping that choosing to remain silent on some issues is the right choice.
Dan

Last edited by DH : 08-17-2011 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:23 AM   #18
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Isn't it interesting how you -only- see this in arts that start with cooperation. Then the gradual grooming process begins, leading students into a belief and eventual "sensitivity" to what they are feeling that always.......always...leads to overreacting. Then they groom you to respond to visual cues. The process becomes self sustaining as the student swears that what he is feeling is really an energy and it's palpable. The process can be heady and feels good to be a part of, which draws them in deeper.
It's B.S. in that it will not work on the uninitiated, its real in that it has such a profound effect on those who got sucked into this behavior. The key is in watching the person who is attacking as the dynamics of his body changes. Remove the teachers from the video and watch the student and you see them go from attacking to receiving mode even before the attack (if there is even a legitimate one offered) is complete and doing these things to themselves. Normal people do not move and react this way. Trained fighters (budo people) will NEVER react this way.
almost sounds like a religion.... just saying...

Quote:

Is it fair to be just talking about this guy when we know so many others doing the same thing and worse? Should we name names of some very famous people and systems who do just that in order to level the field and be intellectually honest in our evaluations?

I think to truly stand in honest evaluation of others and our own place among them is a hard road. All is lost when we depend on the actions or reactions of the uke for anything. At that point we stop a deeper process. I bite my tongue continually with some things I see and hear. I could name about ten famous teachers who do similar things. I am hoping that choosing to remain silent on some issues is the right choice.
Dan
Is seeing the wrong and saying or doing nothing really that different than actually doing the wrong? There's a lot of debate on this sort of thing these days.
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:49 AM   #19
DH
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
almost sounds like a religion.... just saying...
Is seeing the wrong and saying or doing nothing really that different than actually doing the wrong? There's a lot of debate on this sort of thing these days.
Well, I am a great fan of "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
But this is not nearly as serious is it?
People have fun and like to do things that we don't all approve of. What's wrong with that?
The only time I offer an opinion is when they cross the line and think its real and will work on others. I will be the first to step up. I've done this too many times to recount.(and many others are capable of doing it too). I once watched some people teaching knife and I just couldn't stand it any more, so I took the replica knife and cut them to shreds in seconds. They had either never faced a real attack with one, or it was so long ago they had forgotten and allowed themselves to be conditioned by their pre-conditioned students. A false feedback loop thats self sustaining.
You see this with ex military guys all the time. They "use" their (very real) service to convince civilians of an expertise in hand to hand combat that is many times way over played to non existent. You can find cops who have a better idea of real one one encounters.
Anyway, with budo people who actually want to dress up in foreign clothes and preserve some tradition, whats wrong with that? Not a thing. Some are more cooperative than others, and everyone is having a good time. Sometimes it's as odd as imagining seeing a bunch of Japanese people dressing up in civil war era attire, playing a yankee solider and trying to learn the tactics and details of war of that era. Who cares right? We're all a bit silly in some ways.

However, in Budo it's sad to see real subjects like ki and aiki and internals being expressed in the hands of people who would hurt themselves fighting their way out of a house of pillows, much less picking up a weapon, but that's just the way it is and worse destroying the very real potentials by demonstrating their BS skills. All you can do is do what you do and show real skills and hope it helps.
Dan
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:49 AM   #20
Marc Abrams
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Jason:

"Angry Rasta?" I always thought that they were happily floating on the clouds..... I just use my great internal energy and extinguish the blunt, thereby causing the rasta to fall down= no touch throw!!!1

Dan:

The issue of cooperative training exists to one degree or another in all martial arts. I think that the more cooperative the practice becomes, the greater degree of integrity must be shown on the part of the participants in order to truly develop good, useful skills.

My biggest concern has to do with the misunderstanding and misuse of the sensitivity training that in involved with this type of training. It is highly desirable to develop increased sensitivity to yourself and your external environment. It becomes counter-productive and down-right stupid to use sensitivity in a manner that causes people to respond in a manner that has absolutely no martial use. Even worse, people learn to respond in a manner that helps to promote them being truly hurt in physical fights. If we are studying a martial art, implicit in this study should be some increased capacities to come out ahead in a fight. The people in those videos just seem to be imprinting "victim" all over themselves. I think that Systema does a very good job in helping to increase sensitivity in pursuit of greater martial arts abilities (as opposed to what these people are doing).

Regards,

Marc Abrams
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:57 AM   #21
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Budd:

I would take the chance of raising the interest so that people can have a realistic experience of what Aikido can be so that they can make decisions for themselves. I get tired of hearing prospective students ask if I do what Steven Seagal does. I always tell them that I never received my credit card with a blade built in so I have to do something different..... Imagine someone coming in and asking you if you are like their favorite superhero.....

Regards,

Marc Abrams
Meh, there's plenty of folks that continue on in their fantasy worlds even after joining a dojo - regardless of what they're shown. I guess what it comes down to ultimately is whether they're willing to get out of their heads and engage with the people and material in front of them, take ownership for their progress, etc.

Everyone has to start somewhere, though, the question is with experience do you develop a filter, understanding where your practice is in the "budo/martial art" food chain, keep testing against external criteria? For some, they just want a community to join and a practice that holds their interest. Which is fine, so long as there's an honest outlook about it.
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:58 AM   #22
phitruong
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Quote:
Howard Popkin wrote: View Post
As of that time, he didn't posses the ability to freeze me in any posture what so ever.

that's because you didn't learn the secrets of freezing posture. didn't you skip out of those classes and went drinking and carousing? that's why you never going to be a grandmaster that has purple running light, halo, acolytes, and a nice white fluffy robe.
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Old 08-17-2011, 09:03 AM   #23
chillzATL
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Jason:

"Angry Rasta?" I always thought that they were happily floating on the clouds..... I just use my great internal energy and extinguish the blunt, thereby causing the rasta to fall down= no touch throw!!!1
I don't know man, one thing I've learned is to never come between a rasta and his spliff... EVER.
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Old 08-17-2011, 09:10 AM   #24
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Well, I am a great fan of "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
But this is not nearly as serious is it?
People have fun and like to do things that we don't all approve of. What's wrong with that?
The only time I offer an opinion is when they cross the line and think its real and will work on others. I will be the first to step up. I've done this too many times to recount.(and many others are capable of doing it too). I once watched some people teaching knife and I just couldn't stand it any more, so I took the replica knife and cut them to shreds in seconds. They had either never faced a real attack with one, or it was so long ago they had forgotten and allowed themselves to be conditioned by their pre-conditioned students. A false feedback loop thats self sustaining.
You see this with ex military guys all the time. They "use" their (very real) service to convince civilians of an expertise in hand to hand combat that is many times way over played to non existent. You can find cops who have a better idea of real one one encounters.
Anyway, with budo people who actually want to dress up in foreign clothes and preserve some tradition, whats wrong with that? Not a thing. Some are more cooperative than others, and everyone is having a good time. Sometimes it's as odd as imagining seeing a bunch of Japanese people dressing up in civil war era attire, playing a yankee solider and trying to learn the tactics and details of war of that era. Who cares right? We're all a bit silly in some ways.

However, in Budo it's sad to see real subjects like ki and aiki and internals being expressed in the hands of people who would hurt themselves fighting their way out of a house of pillows, much less picking up a weapon, but that's just the way it is and worse destroying the very real potentials by demonstrating their BS skills. All you can do is do what you do and show real skills and hope it helps.
Dan
Oh I don't disagree. I readily accept that there are plenty of people doing aikido very differently than what I learned and do. As long as they know why they're training and are comfortable with it, more power to them.

With that said, I don't think there should be any hesitation in calling things as they are, regardless of the teacher. While some of said teachers students might get upset or offended, they are likely the ones that don't really know why they're training in the first place. I'd say it's better that they find reality via the forgiving world of the internet than the sometimes harsh reality of Real Life ®.
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Old 08-17-2011, 10:47 AM   #25
Chris Covington
 
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Re: grandmaster Nobuo Maekawa

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
It looks like he has a few cute girls in his dojo. Why are there always cute girls in dojos like this or ninja dojos and the only people that want to train with me are cops, military and security? I must be doing something wrong!

Chris Covington
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