Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Non-Aikido Martial Traditions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-30-2011, 09:22 PM   #1
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,164
Offline
Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

Interesting promotional video for a Book by John Evans 7th Dan Nakamura Ryu showing some of the topics discussed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5AZygchUuM

dps
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 01:16 AM   #2
Lee Salzman
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 405
Offline
Re: Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Interesting promotional video for a Book by John Evans 7th Dan Nakamura Ryu showing some of the topics discussed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5AZygchUuM

dps
For all pizazz of the qigongs, the fancy-pants, the waterfalls, you must ask yourself, is this really a good sword cut? On virtually every cut he makes, he is bleeding power out of his hips.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 02:31 AM   #3
mathewjgano
 
mathewjgano's Avatar
Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,108
United_States
Offline
Re: Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

Quote:
Lee Salzman wrote: View Post
For all pizazz of the qigongs, the fancy-pants, the waterfalls, you must ask yourself, is this really a good sword cut? On virtually every cut he makes, he is bleeding power out of his hips.
What are the tell-tales for that?

Gambarimashyo!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 02:48 AM   #4
Lee Salzman
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 405
Offline
Re: Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
What are the tell-tales for that?
In that link I pointed out starting at 3:15, look in particular at the overhead view shortly after. See his butt moving back away from the cut? Then go back and look at his cuts from the side again. See that wave of laxity traveling down through his body, the subtle whiplash quality of the movement? Watch as his hip collapses back slightly and tilts anteriorly, causing his entire body to tilt up and over, like he was momentarily falling over some imaginary thing - in reality falling over a very real thing, his front leg. That's power being directed against the skeleton, into points of collapse, rather than through it. But that is why I asked, because I don't really know, according to specific sword school criterion, is that a good sword cut? I am no expert at sword cuts, I am just pointing out things I see that I have been sensitized towards diagnosing and working on correcting in my own body.

Last edited by Lee Salzman : 07-31-2011 at 02:57 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 03:42 PM   #5
mathewjgano
 
mathewjgano's Avatar
Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,108
United_States
Offline
Re: Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

Very interesting! Thank you, Lee. I was wondering something similar, but my experience is even less than yours so I couldn't say one way or the other. While I'm thinking about it, I just want to say thank you for your thoughts on these subjects. I've enjoyed reading them!
Take care,
Matt

Gambarimashyo!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 02:10 AM   #6
Robert Cowham
Dojo: East Sheen Aikido and Kashima No Tachi
Location: London, UK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 232
Offline
Re: Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

I would agree that he seems to be over balancing slightly forwards in the cuts - according to what I have understood from my teaching that is
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 04:45 PM   #7
Keith Larman
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,550
United_States
Offline
Re: Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

There are a *lot* of ways that people do cuts that are perfectly valid. Are your referring to the "casting" (think fishing) motion that you see in some of them?

Some styles (think many styles of iai) have this casting motion to ensure the monouchi of the ha reached the target correctly for the subsequent "slicing" movement to properly traverse the target. So think about maximizing reach ("The difference between life and death can be measured in one sun...") Very, very good people will disagree as to the extent and value of this movement, however, I will point out that what is correct depends on a larger context of the style's "operating system". Slashing styles, clubbing styles, big movements, small movements. Then there's the Jigen guys who just scream at you until you fill your shorts then beat you to death with the edge... What a way to go...

There's lot of ways to do it right. There are vastly more ways to do it wrong... Me, doing what I do, I get to see a lot of people do it differently. I've learned long ago to avoid comment... Especially when you consider how most aikidoka swing their bokken. Pot, kettle and all that...

Last edited by Keith Larman : 08-03-2011 at 04:50 PM.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 10:31 PM   #8
Rob Watson
Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 698
United_States
Offline
Re: Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

I think it is important to understand and use the term "power" correctly. Energy/time=power. A certain power level can be achieved with vastly different speeds (time) and energy levels. The understanding that time is generally way more important than power when facing a blade (or most any hurtful intent) is crucial when evaluating effectiveness (outside of actually getting cut to pieces).

I would gladly 'leak power' all over the place if it bought me an advantage in distance and timing. Power taken out of a strike that is put into moving one backside to close the distance can be a fine trade-off.

Then again, I only know swinging a bokken in the aforementioned questionable manner.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 11:47 PM   #9
mathewjgano
 
mathewjgano's Avatar
Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,108
United_States
Offline
Re: Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
There's lot of ways to do it right. There are vastly more ways to do it wrong... Me, doing what I do, I get to see a lot of people do it differently. I've learned long ago to avoid comment... Especially when you consider how most aikidoka swing their bokken. Pot, kettle and all that...
...and my pot's blacker than most. Any imperfections in the technique shown would still be superior to my own and I'm not sure I could actually see any anyway.
I liked the video. Regardless of whatever any finer points might be to the movements, for such a short clip it was packed full of interesting things.
I'm curious what David found most interesting in it. Any comments, David?

Gambarimashyo!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 06:08 AM   #10
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,782
United_States
Online
Re: Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Then there's the Jigen guys who just scream at you until you fill your shorts then beat you to death with the edge... What a way to go...
.
hey! that sounded like my kind of style. i have been trying to perfecting my Bruce Lee "scream" with "emotional content" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQfzvQFTtEw (ok, so there has been a rerun of bruce lee films). my scream was so good that i scared myself into a "code brown" moment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo9_7ovqxvg .
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 07:39 AM   #11
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,164
Offline
Re: Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
...and my pot's blacker than most. Any imperfections in the technique shown would still be superior to my own and I'm not sure I could actually see any anyway.
I liked the video. Regardless of whatever any finer points might be to the movements, for such a short clip it was packed full of interesting things.
I'm curious what David found most interesting in it. Any comments, David?
My interest was the insight into the training he is doing.

As far as his sword work goes, I have no experience to be able to criticism him.

dps
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 08:09 AM   #12
Keith Larman
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,550
United_States
Offline
Re: Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

I've seen aikidoka do cuts where they are so focused on maintaining balance and keeping things intact that they'd be lucky to hit a dwarf in the head. Even though they're saying the cut is aimed at forehead level. It's easy to cut a target without using much extension -- you just stand really close. However, standing really close isn't such a great idea if the target happens to have a sword too... Hence some styles have a more pronounced "casting" movement. Most in Aikido aren't all that worried about the bokken as a stand in for a specific edged weapon. It is more about improving their aikido. Most styles of swordsmanship, however, are concerned about the weapon as a functional thing. That is sharp and is used in context of some other fella wishing to do you harm with the same weapon.

Keep in mind that the amount of "draw" in the cut as created by the outer form varies from style to style. The weapon is a "slicer" in general, not an axe. But from style to style the way the cut is performed will vary a bit as to how much the sword is "pulled" (a description I hate because it gives the wrong impression of an overt pulling -- the way the sword traverses a target generally is that it isn't going forward, but back a bit). With a big "casting" cut the sword is way out there and the completion pulls it back. But, like I said, it varies.

The guy is legit within the Nakamura groups. I don't know if that means his personal style nowadays is representative -- that's not always the case regardless where you look at these things.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 09:48 AM   #13
mathewjgano
 
mathewjgano's Avatar
Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,108
United_States
Offline
Re: Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
My interest was the insight into the training he is doing.

As far as his sword work goes, I have no experience to be able to criticism him.

dps
Nor I. I probably shouldn't have commented in that vein.

Do you practice any similar exercises to those shown? What do you think is interesting about them?

Gambarimashyo!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 12:20 PM   #14
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,164
Offline
Re: Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
Nor I. I probably shouldn't have commented in that vein.

Do you practice any similar exercises to those shown? What do you think is interesting about them?
I do similar tanren and tanren bo exercises with Indian clubs and club bells.

And the breathing exercises ( not the dantien rotation ) are from my beginning Aikido training and meditating classes I took 27 years ago.

No sword training or experience.

I use to finish my showers with cold water, but now days I prefer a nice long hot shower and a warm soft towel.

dps
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 03:48 PM   #15
Robert Cowham
Dojo: East Sheen Aikido and Kashima No Tachi
Location: London, UK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 232
Offline
Re: Kurikara: The Sword and the Serpent

As per my comment - I have learnt a different style which has influenced what I am seeking to emulate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-up_dWQX9wQ).

I am very interested to try and understand differences in movements and what advantage each may bring. A real sword is very sharp and doesn't need much power to cut with, and yet it has a weight that requires good body mechanics and connection in order to move it well and fast.

I have to admit to being opinionated about sword work. When travelling I tend to enjoy visiting all sorts of aikido dojos for taijutsu (I don't always like the style but there's always something I can take away), but have seen very little kenjutsu over the years which I rate at all highly - or at least find congenial.

That said, someone like Kuroda sensei is amazing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_RiK...elated#t=3m45s
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:48 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate