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Old 07-27-2011, 03:28 PM   #26
Krystal Locke
Location: Phoenix, Oregon
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 395
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Re: Just sayin.

Do we bring our whole selves onto the mat, or do we just exercise parts of us during classtime?

Is the training partner who has a bias against me off the mat safe on the mat?
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:30 PM   #27
Keith Larman
Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,604
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Re: Just sayin.

Quote:
Rabih Shanshiry wrote: View Post
I find this statement somewhat contradictory to everything else you are saying Keith. What matter should that person's views off the mat have to do with your willingness to train with them?
I don't find it contradictory at all. He expresses his point of view quite often and there is no reason for me to support that in any way whatsoever. Life is too short to train with a jerk.

Sure, there may be things where you segregate aspects of a person, but I don't exactly find this area to be of enough importance to need to spend my time with someone I don't respect. There are a lot of good people to train with so there is no reason to settle for a jerk.

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Old 07-27-2011, 03:33 PM   #28
Narda
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: Just sayin.

I'm new at this, but I told my student, 'Check your ego at the door, not your critical thinking ability.' The only questions I ask, and am willing to answer, are 'Why are you here...what are you looking for?', and 'Do you have any handicaps that I should know about for your safety in training.'

No. We don't leave our whole beings at the door. We are messy beings, and tote all kinds of baggage to the floor and often spill it out all over others without realizing it. But it's our sh*t that we have to work through, and get past, if we want to learn. Are we afraid of others, or the work of learning?

It sounds as if there is some fear of being physically hurt on the basis of being gay. That is not a gay issue at all. That is an issue of someone that deliberately hurts people, and shouldn't be training.

Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
Do we bring our whole selves onto the mat, or do we just exercise parts of us during classtime?

Is the training partner who has a bias against me off the mat safe on the mat?

Last edited by Narda : 07-27-2011 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:38 PM   #29
Tim Ruijs
 
Tim Ruijs's Avatar
Dojo: Makato/Netherlands
Location: Netherlands - Leusden
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 463
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Re: Just sayin.

Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
Do we bring our whole selves onto the mat, or do we just exercise parts of us during classtime?
Train with an open heart, most truthfully to yourself
There is no place for facade, it takes longer to change yourself and progress.

Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
Is the training partner who has a bias against me off the mat safe on the mat?
That depends on the bias. When you feel you might be in physical/mental danger, avoid that person. First rule in Budo: protect yourself at all times
Difference of opinion might not be a problem...

In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
www.aikido-makato.nl
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:47 PM   #30
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
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Re: Just sayin.

Quote:
Roger Flatley wrote: View Post
Yea, but discrimination can rear it's head in any form, inside AND outside the dojo. I've been discriminated against for being young, for dating interacially, and for being poor. People are judged and mistreated based on a wide variety of arbitrary things. My training partner is constantly pre-judged because he has a lot of tattoos and facial peircings. I agree that racial and homosexual bigotry is alive and well in the world, and America in particular. But so is discrimination and stereotyping and pre-judging of all kinds.
That's true, but I'm not sure how it's relevant. My grandfather had a saying: "This is not a competition to see who's the worst." I wish he were still alive. It seems that nowadays, whenever someone points out a problem, immediately other people respond with a lengthy list of related problems -- and these aren't raised as problems to be addressed, but as reasons (excuses?) why the original problem should be ignored. It's any person's right to opt out of tackling any particular problem, but it's a false argument to state that because a problem can't be comprehensively solved, once and for all, in its largest and most far-reaching form, that that's a reason to throw up our hands and fail to address the instances of the problem that present themselves to us. Not every battle has to be your battle; no one said it did. But a battle that you may have the choice to engage in or ignore, someone else may not have that choice, because the battle comes to them.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:57 PM   #31
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
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Re: Just sayin.

Quote:
Narda Wakoluk wrote: View Post
On the other hand, my own teacher told me, 'There is a place for sensitivity in the dojo, but if it gets in the way of training, you have no business learning a martial art.'
Well, we're not training here. We're not standing on some mat in some dojo, trying to co-opt the day's training into a discussion about having a gay-friendly dojo. We're sitting at our keyboards, typing words into an internet forum. So, I don't see what the connection is here. Even if you wish to characterize talking about bigotry as "sensitivity", what's that got to do with this discussion?

Quote:
Narda Wakoluk wrote: View Post
Hypothetical bigoted 'what ifs' aren't going to be a productive base to understand exactly what someone means when they are looking for an environment that is 'XXX friendly'.
What was hypothetical about my examples?

Quote:
Narda Wakoluk wrote: View Post
I disagree, that unless something is blatant, that it won't be of a concern to others training. And if it's sly, and not picked up, work it out privately. If it can't be worked out privately, engage the sensei. Might be a valid complaint for an integrated dojo...might not.
I think you missed my point, which was in response to statements by others. I didn't say anything about antigay bigotry not being "of a concern to others"; I said that others would most likely not notice it. Also, the point that I made wasn't about "working it out"; the point was that when a heterosexual person states that antigay bias doesn't exist in such-and-such environment, you have to take that statement with a big grain of salt.
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Old 08-13-2011, 03:51 AM   #32
Lorien Lowe
Dojo: Northcoast Aikido
Location: California
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 289
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Re: Just sayin.

Sensei has never said anything in my hearing, and I don't think we have an official policy, but slightly less than half of the women at my dojo are 'out' lesbians. I know because they tend to bring their partners to train after they've been at the dojo for a while, rather than because anyone makes a big deal one way or the other.

If any of the men are 'out,' they don't mention it on the mat and don't bring their partners to the dojo. I don't know if that's reflective of the dojo in specific or society in general.
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