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  #26  
Old 07-14-2011, 02:46 PM
Francis Takahashi
Username: aikishihan
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The Word "Aikido"

The word "Aikido" is simply a word. Like the word "Love", or "Hate" or even "Peace" are each but mere words. Like when looking at our atmosphere, we may see "blue" skies, or fiery "red" sunsets, or even the "grey" cloak of sunlight intercepted darkness. Does our description of what we see...

Last edited by akiy : 07-14-2011 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:21 AM   #25
sakumeikan
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Imposters? An interesting concept.

Which martial art consists of techniques called Kotegaishe, Iriminage, Sankyo, Ikkyo, Nikkyo, Shihonage etc.?

Which martial art uses motions called taisabaki, tenkan, irimi, etc?

Need I go on?

Yeah, just one more: Name the martial art done by Saotome, Segal, Saito, Tohei, et al........

What style of Aikido do you do?

Regards.G.
Dear Graham,
Could be that Mr H does not practice Aikido.We will have to wait and see if Mr H answers any of the questions I put to him [via my blog to DPS].
Its quite possible of course that Mr H. ki /ip skills were developed in other areas such as Chinese arts , yoga, etc.He may well posses a strong physique since I believe him to be an ex blacksmith.If this is the case I assume he would acquire through his job a fair degree of strength.
A gentleman by the nick name of the Mighty Atom could hold back a light aircraft by his hair and bite silver dollars in half and even at the age of 80 could still break 6inch nails .He was a strong man who went around old time theatres.In many ways he was akin to O Sensei.One may well develop internal power using methods other than Aikido.Graham, read up on the Mighty Atom , he was amazing.
Cheers, Joe
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:44 AM   #26
DH
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Graham,
Could be that Mr H does not practice Aikido.We will have to wait and see if Mr H answers any of the questions I put to him [via my blog to DPS].
Its quite possible of course that Mr H. ki /ip skills were developed in other areas such as Chinese arts , yoga, etc.He may well posses a strong physique since I believe him to be an ex blacksmith.If this is the case I assume he would acquire through his job a fair degree of strength.
A gentleman by the nick name of the Mighty Atom could hold back a light aircraft by his hair and bite silver dollars in half and even at the age of 80 could still break 6inch nails .He was a strong man who went around old time theatres.In many ways he was akin to O Sensei.One may well develop internal power using methods other than Aikido.Graham, read up on the Mighty Atom , he was amazing.
Cheers, Joe
I've never done Chinese arts, only Japanese.
It is unfortunate that you are unfamiliar with soft power; not running away, evasive tenkan blending, but the soft power that is aiki.
But here again, it is the topic at hand, the ignorance of the aikido community here of its very own heritage...aiki. And the words of the founder that they found incomprehensible,. hence, modern Aikido™
Dan

Last edited by DH : 07-19-2011 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:51 AM   #27
stan baker
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

It is unfortunate that I have to personalize a whole field of study to one or a few individuals,It is the lack of geniue inquiry from so many that make it so.

stan
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Old 07-19-2011, 11:00 AM   #28
aikishihan
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Greetings Peter,

How wonderful to welcome you to this discussion, and to benefit from your depth of knowledge, resources of research and the singularly unique perspective of a foreigner successfully navigating the Japanese ethic and society. Congratulations for persevering so brilliantly for so many decades, and doing yeoman's work so very well on our collective behalf.

A “can of worms” indeed, although that was never my intention. It is simply the private opinion of a simple man from Honolulu, who nonetheless feels comfortable in sharing perspectives and impressions with notables such as yourself. Indeed, how else to capture the attention of the big fish in the Sea of Aikido? As long as it works, I will continue to stir, instigate and cajole my peers and friends to share their own unique and invaluable viewpoints on things Aiki, and Aikido related.

To both Peter and Graham, may I express gratitude to the unavoidably British flavor you bring to the discussion, with your talent of proper English syntax, and love of scholarly opinions backed by extensive research. I am afraid that I do not hold myself accountable to such constraints, owing no Giri or On to anyone but the Founder. He is yet to admonish me for my many failings.

Yes, Aikido is just a word. It is also just a noun. It is whatever, and in whatsoever form a sincere student of Aiki, of Ueshiba Aiki, and of the Founder’s Aikido chooses to use it to assume happy ownership of whatever sense of ease, empowerment and legitimacy needed or desired to possess, in order to engage fully in any discussion or practice. Therein lies the true beauty and value of Aikido’s appeal to so many, especially those who have no knowledge or experience with genuine Japanese culture, but more importantly, to those who feel that the Founder did indeed grant them license to co create, and to create in new directions, the universal message of the original model.

I fully respect the efforts of the late Doshu, and other traditionally minded individuals who want to maintain the illusion that the Founder’s discovery was, and will always remain essentially a Japanese invention, and the sole property of the Ueshiba family and their supporters and apologists. I simply disagree, and feel justified in interpreting the Founder’s intent to have his gift available to anyone who is willing to pay the price of honest research, committed training, and genuine respect for all others who feel the same.

The Silver Bridge that he introduced in Hawaii 50 years ago is alive and well, and should be the focal point of all discussions of cementing good will and compassionate dialogue amongst the international spate of O Sensei’s advocates and representatives over time.

The word revisionism was brought up by a contributor, but I honestly see no widespread or intentional effort to revise the Founder’s vision of his Aikido. Even giving due credit or even discredit to the late Doshu for altering the format and content of training at Aikikai Hombu, the opportunity has always been there for people who think for themselves to opt out for other interpretations. I believe that history has born this fact out, given the emergence of giants such as Shioda, Tomiki, Mochizuki, Tohei, Saito, Nishio and countless other less than household names who successfully avoided the tender trap of the Doshu’s apparent intent to keep things “in house”. Let’s honor the memory of the late Doshu, and acknowledge the great work in popularizing his father’s creation. No harm done to serious students of Universal Aiki, leaving a safe and user friendly system to those who lack the same fire and desire to be more.

It is my opinion that Universal Aiki is so vast and allowing for a truly wide range of interpretation and application, from severe martial integrity, to the most unorthodox of spiritual flight imaginable. Real students know that theirs is the option of any one or combination of these, even trading platforms as they grow individually along their own chosen path of growth in their Aiki. No need to step on someone else’s Aiki to proclaim “Look at me! I know what true Aiki is, and you don’t!” Such childishness only bespeaks insecurity and intolerance.

So Peter, if you do not need to have the word Aikido have any special meaning for yourself, please do not assume that others will not have different designs for the word, and graciously do allow them all to feel justified in doing so. Now there’s a good fellow!

In oneness,

Last edited by aikishihan : 07-19-2011 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:36 PM   #29
Diana Frese
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

I was asking myself whether I have anything in particular to contribute to the discussion as myself, and then how to describe this. I came up with the following....

When under various circumstances I found myself not attending regular training, I still considered Aikido very valuable, so since I still had a phone connected to yellow page advertising I had great fun recommending it to others, as fortunately there was a very qualified instructor to whom to pass on the referrals.

Without meaning to go into too much detail, I enjoyed thinking what might result from the recommendations as a sort of nagare, maybe even related to the grand Kannagara (which is a fascinating concept I have barely begun to understand) But my take on it is this, we introduce people to Aikido and through them it flows on into the future. Maybe O Sensei meant it to be this way.

A special delight is when former students who have moved join dojos where they live, even many years later.

I like both interpretations, the historical and the individual. If Aikido has no personal meaning for someone, why would that person study? And if teaching, or recommending, what are we teaching and passing on into the future. There seem to be many ways people view their own responsibility.
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Old 07-19-2011, 01:59 PM   #30
graham christian
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Hi Francis. A great reply in your last post. I fully agree with that view also.

Now, time for tea old chap.

Respect G.
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Old 07-19-2011, 02:20 PM   #31
graham christian
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Graham,
Could be that Mr H does not practice Aikido.We will have to wait and see if Mr H answers any of the questions I put to him [via my blog to DPS].
Its quite possible of course that Mr H. ki /ip skills were developed in other areas such as Chinese arts , yoga, etc.He may well posses a strong physique since I believe him to be an ex blacksmith.If this is the case I assume he would acquire through his job a fair degree of strength.
A gentleman by the nick name of the Mighty Atom could hold back a light aircraft by his hair and bite silver dollars in half and even at the age of 80 could still break 6inch nails .He was a strong man who went around old time theatres.In many ways he was akin to O Sensei.One may well develop internal power using methods other than Aikido.Graham, read up on the Mighty Atom , he was amazing.
Cheers, Joe
Hi Joe.
I certainly will read up on the mighty atom as he sounds like quite a dude.

My view on 'Mr H' as you call him are not as he portrays really. I don't think he had extensive practice in chinese arts but rather in daito ryu. I would say he was looking for something and found it. My summary would be that he learned about centre connection, staying connected, building a 'body facia' and thus discovering some 'softness' in application.

This type of internal he translates as aiki.

The fact that others find it helps them in their Aikido is all well and good as far as I'm concerned.

What people including me were trying to work out was what is he? Does he have a style of Aikido? No.

Therefore I conclude he is best categorized as a very able personal trainer who specializes in ip.(A type of ip he calls aiki)

That's about it really

Regards.G.
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Old 07-19-2011, 03:10 PM   #32
Lee Salzman
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
... snippity snip ...

My summary would be that he learned about centre connection, staying connected, building a 'body facia' and thus discovering some 'softness' in application.

This type of internal he translates as aiki.

The fact that others find it helps them in their Aikido is all well and good as far as I'm concerned.

What people including me were trying to work out was what is he? Does he have a style of Aikido? No.

Therefore I conclude he is best categorized as a very able personal trainer who specializes in ip.(A type of ip he calls aiki)

That's about it really
Graham, to depersonalize this a moment, and to segue it into a broader question you make me curious about: what if you by accident walked into a DR practice session, only they did not call it DR, and they were practicing a very specific technical skill set which they would ordinarily specifically term aiki, though no specific techniques to be sure, only this time they did not label it aiki, perhaps did not speak at all during this session, kiai excepted, what would tell you this is not aikido? Without the benefit of preconceptions, imagining you had never heard of DR , how would you know? What would give it away? What would you label what they are doing, without knowing they chose to label it thusly, and why?

Last edited by Lee Salzman : 07-19-2011 at 03:15 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 07-19-2011, 03:55 PM   #33
HL1978
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Which martial art uses motions called taisabaki, tenkan, irimi, etc?
Just to point out here that when read in light of the following aikido journal article, one may construe more than a single japanese martial art utilizing those motions or the principles utilized.
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Old 07-19-2011, 04:14 PM   #34
DH
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

That's quite funny Graham
Hopefully sometime before you die you will discover what your founder was doing and talking about and what aiki really is, and that it was not unique to him, but thousands of years old. In the mean time, avoiding those who actually do have it is about the only way you can maintain the illusion that aikido's aiki is unique and everyone's aiki is equal.

In the meantime everyone can have an "A" too, as long as your skill and knowledge of aiki is not tested against those who actually do. Being faced with job requirements that define actual competency, is always tougher then what they told you in school, ...that you're all equal and special .
Dan
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Old 07-19-2011, 05:41 PM   #35
Cady Goldfield
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

It is my opinion that Universal Aiki is so vast and allowing for a truly wide range of interpretation and application, from severe martial integrity, to the most unorthodox of spiritual flight imaginable. Real students know that theirs is the option of any one or combination of these, even trading platforms as they grow individually along their own chosen path of growth in their Aiki. No need to step on someone else’s Aiki to proclaim “Look at me! I know what true Aiki is, and you don’t!” Such childishness only bespeaks insecurity and intolerance.

With all due respect, Francis, "aiki" really isn't a vague thing open to anyone's personal intepretation; it's a very specific, discrete physical skill set which most probably originated in China and was evidently taken up and honed by generations of Japanese practitioners who made it their own. Takeda Sokaku was one of them, and the legacy lived on in Ueshiba Morihei and his peers (Sagawa, Horikawa, et al.).

Aiki is the root and source of everything amazing in Ueshiba's aikido. Anyone who has trained the aiki skill set adequately can physically demonstrate it and, what's more, they can show you, clearly, the difference between it (what Morihei knew and had) and the form of aikido disseminated by Kisshomaru and the current Doshu.

It's puzzling that so many people have now been introduced to and are currently training in the aiki that was crucial to the development of Morihei's art, and discovering how very different and powerful it is -- and are reporting this publicly -- and yet they are having their online testimonies ignored or shot down by detractors who will not at least go to see and try for themselves. This, even after the former have reported that it has exponentially increased the power and stability of -their- aikido.

What is the danger or harm in following up on these testimonies and verifying them by experiencing the skill set-in-question for oneself? Doing so would allow people to make an informed comparison. Then, their interpretation of what "Aikido" means and is, will be far deeper and more nuanced, as will their personal choice to practice an aikido with "martial integrity" or "an unorthodox flight of spirituality," or anything thing somewhere in between. Because aiki will inculcate with substance whatever form of expression they choose.

Last edited by Cady Goldfield : 07-19-2011 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 07-19-2011, 06:00 PM   #36
jester
 
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
With all due respect, Francis, "aiki" really isn't a vague thing open to anyone's personal intepretation; it's a very specific
In Tomiki Aikido, what is the difference in doing Shomen-Ate, or any of the 17, with Aiki and doing it without Aiki?

Thanks

-

-It seems to be all about semantics!
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:10 PM   #37
graham christian
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Hunter Lonsberry wrote: View Post
Just to point out here that when read in light of the following aikido journal article, one may construe more than a single japanese martial art utilizing those motions or the principles utilized.
Hi Hunter.
Nice article. It was on parts of Aikido. I fully agree with it. Thanks for sharing. I think I've missed your point though.

Regards.G.
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:28 PM   #38
graham christian
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Lee Salzman wrote: View Post
Graham, to depersonalize this a moment, and to segue it into a broader question you make me curious about: what if you by accident walked into a DR practice session, only they did not call it DR, and they were practicing a very specific technical skill set which they would ordinarily specifically term aiki, though no specific techniques to be sure, only this time they did not label it aiki, perhaps did not speak at all during this session, kiai excepted, what would tell you this is not aikido? Without the benefit of preconceptions, imagining you had never heard of DR , how would you know? What would give it away? What would you label what they are doing, without knowing they chose to label it thusly, and why?
Hi Lee.
I don't know what DR means but I get your point.

Firstly I have been shown various things over the years and found them all interesting.

Secondly, if the techniques were not as prescribed in Aikido then obviously I would see it's not Aikido.

I have seen many students of other arts do many things within my own class and immediately recognise them as different and not Aikido and usually enquire about them and even experience them. No problem. One guy swore he was doing Aikido and thus confused one of my students. I asked what he did, had it demonstrated and informed him that was more Aikijutsu than Aikido and that's what he must have been doing.

Later the guy came and apologised and asked me how I knew for he had convinced everyone else he had done Aikido.

Then there's the matter of purpose and respect. If I go to another place and see and experience something like you describe then I will usually recognise and understand and thank them. If it was all new to me no doubt it would be interesting and I would thus learn something.

I would obviously see whether it was similar, the same or different to what I do. If it was the same I would obviously already have a label for it. If it was not then I wouldn't. In both cases however I would ask what they call it.

I leave all my Aikido at the door when in anothers place.

Regards.G.
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:34 PM   #39
graham christian
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
That's quite funny Graham
Hopefully sometime before you die you will discover what your founder was doing and talking about and what aiki really is, and that it was not unique to him, but thousands of years old. In the mean time, avoiding those who actually do have it is about the only way you can maintain the illusion that aikido's aiki is unique and everyone's aiki is equal.

In the meantime everyone can have an "A" too, as long as your skill and knowledge of aiki is not tested against those who actually do. Being faced with job requirements that define actual competency, is always tougher then what they told you in school, ...that you're all equal and special .
Dan
All I did was validate you. Is that funny? I have a thorough understanding of my own of what Aiki is thank you and respect others others views on what they say it is to them.

Live long and prosper.

Regards.G.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:44 AM   #40
sakumeikan
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
All I did was validate you. Is that funny? I have a thorough understanding of my own of what Aiki is thank you and respect others others views on what they say it is to them.

Live long and prosper.

Regards.G.
Dear Graham,
A very respectful answer to a blog which to my mind was almost if not desultory to you.Mr Harden I feel may well have something to offer to the Aikido community.Modesty , good manners and respect for others would not be on his skills list cv.
Cheers, Joe.
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:24 AM   #41
Tim Ruijs
 
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

nice way to try and convince that your view is best

and yet you say you practise Aikido? uhm, ok.

In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
www.aikido-makato.nl
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:34 AM   #42
sakumeikan
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Joe.
I think my points have been pretty clear.
We have the founders aiki-do
We have modern aikido,
Apparently your argument is that Modern aikido is equal to the old mans aiki? I clearly dissagree. Your replies express waza and ot aiki. Over the years, instead of discussions and displays of what the old man was talking about, we got confusion and waza based nonsense. Even now you reduce yourselves to asking what style do I do. It's sad, but its how you are programmed to think. While claming you are free, when pressed, you retain all the trappings of those stuck in a box..

As for my background and ranks;
I've said it before, when it comes down to it, it's easy to go after me, but why is it that you have nothing to say to ten shihan, and dozens of 5th dans and 4th dans, who now agree and train this way? Or that it is a 100% success rate, written about here.
No teacher has shown up to state otherwise.
Which pretty much sinks the nail in the coffin of any counter argument doesn't it?
Yet I have not seen you, David, Graham, or any detractor commenting on the publicly documented and witnessed accounts of what keeps happening when we stand in rooms with teacher after teacher, shihan after shihan, and manage (without using any technique) to convince them of the superiority of their own arts aiki. And then make friends and work together
Why is that, Joe?
No comment on that?
No thoughts on how weird and odd that is, to keep happening over and over.
I think you do not comment because there is no argument that can be successfully made. You would have to take on too many teachers in your own art, and then have to admit that some thing has gone desperately wrong with the art over the years.
.
As for insulting;
I am sensitive to the fact that it is hard to hear someone tell you that the majority missed it, harder still when it is not from a recognized teacher, I left to pursue aiki. But truth stands on its own legs. I stand alone in rooms all over. You might want to consider, where I've been and what I could say. but don't, While you choose to individualize the argument, I don't. It's bigger than individuals, grander than a single art and it is a bridge that is making friends between arts.
Ueshiba's aiki is what we should be pursuing. His aiki (and he knew this too) is that bridge, not some made up hollow shell that we have made of it. No amount of discussion will make them all equal.
It's the power in his aiki, that reveals the imposters who have no claim to it. Their work cannot stand in the face of it.
I love the quote from one of Doshu's close friends; a Shihan in the art. He told his people "I hve stopped teaching aikido. I have discovered aiki." When he tried to show Doshu, Doshu agreed his power and aiki had changed, but he said "I can't do that, they would kill me, I have to do what my father did."
And so it goes.
Dan
Dear Mr Harden,
Thank you for your comments. Let me make these points.
1.Have a never indicated whether I thought Modern Aikido was /is better /equal/worse than the Founders Aikido.
2.You must have a persecution complex.You indicate I go after you.If by seeking information or asking questions is going after you ,
well what can i say?
3.You constantly quote that you train loads of 4th /5th dans/shihans yet you do not state their names.Especially the alleged conversation between one of Doshus close friends[Mr X]
and Doshu. Could this be an urban myth???
I do not consider myself someone who is a detractor.I have asked you openly and honestly for your lineage.
I also stated that I think you may well have something of value to
teach.Hardly a message I would write if I were a detractor.
You use carefully constructed blogs which in my mind are less than respectful and are judgemental.You suggested in an earlier blog that I was /am unfamiliar with SOFT POWER.Whether I am or not is not the point.The point is you know nothing about me yet you make such statements.
I will however agree that we as aikidoka should engage in a quest which enables us to fully realise the potential that lies at the heart of O Senseis art.
Cheers, Joe.
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:09 AM   #43
DH
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

A collection of your comments
Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
You must have a persecution complex.You indicate I go after you.If by seeking information or asking questions.....
You constantly quote that you train loads of 4th /5th dans/shihans yet you do not state their names.Especially the alleged conversation between one of Doshus close friends[Mr X]
and Doshu. Could this be an urban myth???
.....
good manners and respect for others would not be on his skills list
You use carefully constructed blogs which in my mind are less than respectful and are judgemental..
Hardly a message I would write if I were a detractor
Persecution complex, liar, bad manners and disrespect, judgemental, I can't imagine what you would write were you a detractor.
Let's see:
I talked about Ueshiba and Modern aikido...you guy started writing about me.
I wrote about aiki...you guys started to write about technique
I suggested the topic is larger than individuals...you guys continued writing about me.
I suggested you try to address the hundreds of people who have gone outside of aikido to train IP aiki with various people...and...you suggest I am lying...and ...you continue to write about me.
Were I a narcissist this would be a dream, as I am not, I can only say it's too bad you can't follow talking points.
Aiki and Aikido:
  • AIki is what Ueshiba was talking about.
  • He got it from Takeda
  • He expanded on it throughout his life
  • His son did not have it
  • Most modern aikido people don't have it
  • Many have and are going outside the art to get it
  • Internal power/Aiki is bigger than aikido. It is old knowledge
Other than that:
Where do I matter much at all?
If my points are so superfluous, then shoot them down. If in reply all you can manage is to steer the topic on to me, then don't bother.
I know that violating the rules and attacking me is common here, but it still doesn't say much about your points...if you have any.
Dan
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:25 AM   #44
HL1978
Dojo: Aunkai
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Hi Hunter.
Nice article. It was on parts of Aikido. I fully agree with it. Thanks for sharing. I think I've missed your point though.

Regards.G.
I read what I wrote and as the result of an edit it is a bit nonsensical.

My point is that other arts than aikido utilize the concepts which make those movements work. The article was merely to illustrate that point through Ellis's discussion of other arts and how those movements need to be utilized together rather than on their own,
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:31 AM   #45
HL1978
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
3.You constantly quote that you train loads of 4th /5th dans/shihans yet you do not state their names.
If you look at the seminar announcments, you can probably figure out some of the instructors who are being trained by Dan and you could answer your own question. Perhaps they don't want to be named out of fears of aiki politics? Beats me, but I don't care much about martial politics.

In life in general as well as in martial arts, if you are fairly observant you can figure out all sorts of stuff on your own. Its called mitori keiko in japanese martial arts. You then go out an experiment on your own and see if it works.
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:36 AM   #46
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
A collection of your comments

Persecution complex, liar, bad manners and disrespect, judgemental, I can't imagine what you would write were you a detractor.
Let's see:
I talked about Ueshiba and Modern aikido...you guy started writing about me.
I wrote about aiki...you guys started to write about technique
I suggested the topic is larger than individuals...you guys continued writing about me.
I suggested you try to address the hundreds of people who have gone outside of aikido to train IP aiki with various people...and...you suggest I am lying...and ...you continue to write about me.
Were I a narcissist this would be a dream, as I am not, I can only say it's too bad you can't follow talking points.
Aiki and Aikido:
  • AIki is what Ueshiba was talking about.
  • He got it from Takeda
  • He expanded on it throughout his life
  • His son did not have it
  • Most modern aikido people don't have it
  • Many have and are going outside the art to get it
  • Internal power/Aiki is bigger than aikido. It is old knowledge
Other than that:
Where do I matter much at all?
If my points are so superfluous, then shoot them down. If in reply all you can manage is to steer the topic on to me, then don't bother.
I know that violating the rules and attacking me is common here, but it still doesn't say much about your points...if you have any.
Dan
Dear Dan
All i have ever asked from you is more info on your lineage.
What I call asking for information or authentication of your many statements regarding all these teachers[largely anonymous] I see that as seeking info .You apparently see this as an attack.
You also state that I have called you a liar.If by asking who you teacher etc is lying yes I am a liar. I guess if you get many questions such as I and others have posted you will call us all liars.
I had hoped we could conduct a discussion wherein issues like direction of Aikido, how we can improve the skills[be it on I/P or whatever] , and build a degree of interchange of viewpoints.
Alas I do not think , sad to say , that we are likely to indulge ourselves in constructive dialogue in the future,
Adieu, Joe.
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:53 AM   #47
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Francis Takahashi wrote: View Post
So Peter, if you do not need to have the word Aikido have any special meaning for yourself, please do not assume that others will not have different designs for the word, and graciously do allow them all to feel justified in doing so. Now there's a good fellow!
In oneness,
Hello Francis,
I do not think I have made any such assumptions, in either of my two earlier posts. On the contrary, the evidence of different designs for the word and of feeling justified for having such designs is there to begin with, throughout this thread. If people want to give the art of aikido and how they practice it a special meaning, that is fine. They can even give the word a special meaning if they wish. As with the other posters, I have merely stated what I find acceptable in my own case and why I find it acceptable.

Best wishes,

PAG

P A Goldsbury
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:54 AM   #48
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Joe
Once again, Me, me, me, You are creating scenarios in your own head, and now stating I said things I never said, speaking for me and telling me how I feel (incorrectly I might add) and then drawing conclusions of your own making without recognizing what you have actually said. In the process of which you ignored the things I actually did say and the points I made. And ended up...talking about me ...again...instead of the topic!
What kind of an attempt is that to have a meaningful discussion? It isn't. All it does is erroneously place the burden on me as the nonresponsive participant, when I was the one discussing the topic in the first place!

Dan

Last edited by DH : 07-20-2011 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:02 AM   #49
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Re: The Word "Aikido"

Quote:
Hunter Lonsberry wrote: View Post
I read what I wrote and as the result of an edit it is a bit nonsensical.

My point is that other arts than aikido utilize the concepts which make those movements work. The article was merely to illustrate that point through Ellis's discussion of other arts and how those movements need to be utilized together rather than on their own,
O.K. Granted. In fact I would go further than that. The better you get at thinking in terms of principles rather than techniques then the more you see and recognise in all other martial arts.

Regards.G.
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